Drowning in slush. I almost threw my turkey dinner up. Vomit.
Why so much sentimentality ?
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Originally Posted by petertard:
“Drowning in slush. I almost threw my turkey dinner up. Vomit.”
“Drowning in slush. I almost threw my turkey dinner up. Vomit.”
So you'd have sooner had Reg die and let his family be sad for Christmas day?
Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing....
Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! 
Originally Posted by bbll22:
“So you'd have sooner had Reg die and let his family be sad for Christmas day?
Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing.... Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
“So you'd have sooner had Reg die and let his family be sad for Christmas day?
Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing....
Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
What makes me smile is that OP thought his view so very important, that it needed it's own thread. Couldn't have put it in the main thread about the episode - oh no...
As I happens, I love a bit of sentimentality - especially at Christmas
The problem with sentimentality is that it's essentially false emotion and it therefore cheapens real emotion. I've no idea why people associate fake emotions with Christmas. It doesn't say much for the sincerity of Christmas does it.
Originally Posted by bbll22:
“Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing.... Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
“Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing....
Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
Yeah, we've got Eastenders for that!
Originally Posted by petertard:
“Drowning in slush. I almost threw my turkey dinner up. Vomit.”
“Drowning in slush. I almost threw my turkey dinner up. Vomit.”
don't you mean "Bah, humbug"?
Sorry, in what sense would a wife realising that she has saved the life of the husband she though had been killed be experiencing 'false emotion'?
This is just the 'ew... feelings...' wing of fandom at it again. :yawn:
This is just the 'ew... feelings...' wing of fandom at it again. :yawn:
If there is any place for sentimentality in Doctor Who, its in the Christmas Specials. My favourite part of last night's episode was arguably the most sentimental bit, and that was the family hug at the end, with the Amy/Rory scene after it. I say this as someone who was disappointed with the episode in general, but I won't knock the sentimental values it had. And the only way the emotions displayed were 'false' was in the sense that its actually acting...aside from that, I like a bit of emotional depth to my characters, and that's something I feel Moffat is generally a bit hit-and-miss with.
Sentimentality cheapens proper sentiment, which does not need underlining, but should have a subtle effect.
Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved
Originally Posted by bbll22:
“So you'd have sooner had Reg die and let his family be sad for Christmas day?
Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing.... Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
“So you'd have sooner had Reg die and let his family be sad for Christmas day?
Oh, how perfect that would have been for family viewing....
Death and misery on Christmas day.....just what we don't need! ”
No, it would have been right. Magically saving someone
at the end just feels wrong, especially
since it felt like an afterthought.
In fact after the episode ended my brother said he felt the story would have worked better if the father had died and the family had to cope with his absence. There could have been a powerful scene where one of the family begged the Doctor to save him and the Doctor would have to admit "I'm truly sorry, but I can't save your father" -think of the drama there!
Originally Posted by colinpost:
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
Yes, I'm just off to watch the B5 and BSG Christmas Specials.
So you'd like a Doctor Who that's arc-heavy to the point of incomprehensibly to casual viewers, has a limited duration and starts to run out of steam towards the end?
The only thing Who ever had in common with those series is 'occasionally goes into space'.
Originally Posted by Residents Fan:
“No, it would have been right. Magically saving someone at the end just feels wrong, especially since it felt like an afterthought.
In fact after the episode ended my brother said he felt the story would have worked better if the father had died and the family had to cope with his absence. There could have been a powerful scene where one of the family begged the Doctor to save him and the Doctor would have to admit "I'm truly sorry, but I can't save your father" -think of the drama there!”
“No, it would have been right. Magically saving someone at the end just feels wrong, especially since it felt like an afterthought.
In fact after the episode ended my brother said he felt the story would have worked better if the father had died and the family had to cope with his absence. There could have been a powerful scene where one of the family begged the Doctor to save him and the Doctor would have to admit "I'm truly sorry, but I can't save your father" -think of the drama there!”
Yeah, depressing and miserable....not what is needed for a Christmas special.
If this fitted into the regular series, I do agree the saving part wouldn't be right, but this is the Christmas special - it needs to be upbeat! You have the broadest audience watching - possibly attracting fans for next series, you don't want misery and death put in front of them on Christmas day of all days....
I don't want to be depressed watching it, I want to be happy and smile as all is saved.
Also, if you think the saving of Reg was an afterthought, you really weren't paying attention then. It was signalled throughout that Madge would want Reg back so with all that power in her head, saving her husband was a logical thing. Not an afterthought in the slightest!
Originally Posted by bbll22:
“Yeah, depressing and miserable....not what is needed for a Christmas special.
If this fitted into the regular series, I do agree the saving part wouldn't be right, but this is the Christmas special - it needs to be upbeat! You have the broadest audience watching - possibly attracting fans for next series, you don't want misery and death put in front of them on Christmas day of all days....”
“Yeah, depressing and miserable....not what is needed for a Christmas special.
If this fitted into the regular series, I do agree the saving part wouldn't be right, but this is the Christmas special - it needs to be upbeat! You have the broadest audience watching - possibly attracting fans for next series, you don't want misery and death put in front of them on Christmas day of all days....”
Then why write the "saving the dad" aspect into
in it then? Why not have the father already dead
at the start of the story?
And it is not "depressing and miserable" to acknowledge
the reality of death in a family program. In fact, if done
properly, it can be quite good- I've mentioned the
example of "Charlotte's Web".
Spoiler
Strictly Come Dancing's christmas special was full of tat and people that can't dance. Doesn't mean that the rest of the programme is like that (Oh wait....)
The point is that it is Christmas Day. Don't expect the same same type of show on Christmas Day as the rest of the series. You can moan and say 'oh but why it shouldn't change just because of Christmas'. The fact is that it does. The only Xmas special remotely similar to the actual series (and that was vaguely comparable in quality) was Tennant's first episode and even that wasn't great.
Grow up, deal with it and move on!
The point is that it is Christmas Day. Don't expect the same same type of show on Christmas Day as the rest of the series. You can moan and say 'oh but why it shouldn't change just because of Christmas'. The fact is that it does. The only Xmas special remotely similar to the actual series (and that was vaguely comparable in quality) was Tennant's first episode and even that wasn't great.
Grow up, deal with it and move on!
Originally Posted by Gene the Cow:
“Strictly Come Dancing's christmas special was full of tat and people that can't dance. Doesn't mean that the rest of the programme is like that (Oh wait....)
The point is that it is Christmas Day. Don't expect the same same type of show on Christmas Day as the rest of the series. You can moan and say 'oh but why it shouldn't change just because of Christmas'. The fact is that it does. The only Xmas special remotely similar to the actual series (and that was vaguely comparable in quality) was Tennant's first episode and even that wasn't great.
Grow up, deal with it and move on!”
“Strictly Come Dancing's christmas special was full of tat and people that can't dance. Doesn't mean that the rest of the programme is like that (Oh wait....)
The point is that it is Christmas Day. Don't expect the same same type of show on Christmas Day as the rest of the series. You can moan and say 'oh but why it shouldn't change just because of Christmas'. The fact is that it does. The only Xmas special remotely similar to the actual series (and that was vaguely comparable in quality) was Tennant's first episode and even that wasn't great.
Grow up, deal with it and move on!”
Hang on a second-the Jonathan Creek Christmas
Specials had the same dramatic tone as
the regular episodes. So there's no reason why
the Doctor Who Xmas specials shouldn't be different
in tone to the usual series. And I think it's patronising
to the viewers to assume they'll switch off if a Doctor Who
Christmas episode isn't full of excessive sentimentality
and forced-in Xmas references.
Hey, that light-hearted and cheerful flick "The Empire
Strikes Back" was a staple of Xmas viewing for years...
Originally Posted by colinpost:
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
B5 and BSG are not comparable to Doctor Who at all. And to turn a family show into serious sci fi would ruin it completely. The audiences targeted by those two shows are so entirely different.
Most other sci fi shows can only dream of the longevity and fan loyalty that Doctor Who enjoys. Are you seriously suggesting Doctor Who become more like less successful shows? Wouldn't that defeat the object?
Originally Posted by Residents Fan:
“Then why write the "saving the dad" aspect into in it then? Why not have the father already dead at the start of the story?
And it is not "depressing and miserable" to acknowledge the reality of death in a family program. In fact, if done properly, it can be quite good- I've mentioned the example of "Charlotte's Web".
”
“Then why write the "saving the dad" aspect into in it then? Why not have the father already dead at the start of the story?
And it is not "depressing and miserable" to acknowledge the reality of death in a family program. In fact, if done properly, it can be quite good- I've mentioned the example of "Charlotte's Web".
Spoiler
But it's not nice to have death looming over in a programme aimed at the family on a day where its meant to be a happy day. Your idea is not appropriate in any sense at all.
I don't particularly care for the Charlotte's Web example as I don't see its relevance to last night's episode.
The strength of having Madge bring back her love who she thought was dead was wonderful and magical to see. It's shows great quality in the Moff's writing.
The reason it was written in was to show how key Reg was to Madge so that we would empathise for her in her loss at Christmas time.
If he was dead already we'd have nothing to work on and then Madge would be defined by his death and we'd explore nothing else about her. It's not the right way to go about things.
Also, if Reg was left for dead and his death left looming over Madge and the Arwell's, it just shows misery and that is just not right for this time of year.
I just you'd understand if you see death and misery on Christmas day TV, it's hardly going to make the audience clap and cheer with joy is it? They want a fun hour with some lovely sentiment and all being well at the end of it.
They don't want doom and gloom and something to make them think about possible losses in their family when it's the time of year to gather round as a family and celebrate.
Originally Posted by colinpost:
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
“Where was the SF story? or as of ''saga' age have now lost my love for my favourite program.?
The other day in the pub, i found myself ,not praising Dr Who, but explaining to my fellow collegues how B5 and BSG were examples on how DW should have evolved”
While I like B5 (not seen BSG) I think it's aimed at an
adult sci-fi audience. Making Doctor Who like B5 wouldn't
work- DW is meant to be a show for everyone.
Originally Posted by Residents Fan:
“Hang on a second-the Jonathan Creek Christmas Specials had the same dramatic tone as the regular episodes. So there's no reason why
the Doctor Who Xmas specials shouldn't be different in tone to the usual series.”
“Hang on a second-the Jonathan Creek Christmas Specials had the same dramatic tone as the regular episodes. So there's no reason why
the Doctor Who Xmas specials shouldn't be different in tone to the usual series.”
Two very different shows with very different target audiences. Very clever comparison there.
Doctor Who goes broad at Christmas to allow a bigger audience to sample and see and think about watching in future - it's light-hearted for that reason and the other reasons I keep repeating to you but you seem oblivious to.
Originally Posted by Residents Fan:
“Hang on a second-the Jonathan Creek Christmas
Specials had the same dramatic tone as
the regular episodes. So there's no reason why
the Doctor Who Xmas specials shouldn't be different
in tone to the usual series. And I think it's patronising
to the viewers to assume they'll switch off if a Doctor Who
Christmas episode isn't full of excessive sentimentality
and forced-in Xmas references.
Hey, that light-hearted and cheerful flick "The Empire
Strikes Back" was a staple of Xmas viewing for years...”
“Hang on a second-the Jonathan Creek Christmas
Specials had the same dramatic tone as
the regular episodes. So there's no reason why
the Doctor Who Xmas specials shouldn't be different
in tone to the usual series. And I think it's patronising
to the viewers to assume they'll switch off if a Doctor Who
Christmas episode isn't full of excessive sentimentality
and forced-in Xmas references.
Hey, that light-hearted and cheerful flick "The Empire
Strikes Back" was a staple of Xmas viewing for years...”
You're agreeing that the Christmas special should be tonally different in the part that I highlighted for you. I only point it out because you appear to be contradicting yourself.
Also, people seem to be determined to compare shows that aren't remotely comparable!
Originally Posted by bbll22:
“Two very different shows with very different target audiences. Very clever comparison there.
Doctor Who goes broad at Christmas to allow a bigger audience to sample and see and think about watching in future - it's light-hearted for that reason and the other reasons I keep repeating to you but you seem oblivious to.”
“Two very different shows with very different target audiences. Very clever comparison there.
Doctor Who goes broad at Christmas to allow a bigger audience to sample and see and think about watching in future - it's light-hearted for that reason and the other reasons I keep repeating to you but you seem oblivious to.”
"Going Broad" seems to mean a loss of good scripting
and cliches straight out of a bad Hollywood movie.
And let's be honest, how would also-ran
episodes like "The Runaway Bride",
"Voyage of the Damned" or "The Doctor, the Widow
and the Wardrobe" win a member of the general
public over to watching "Doctor Who" regularly?
Episodes like "Rose", "Blink" or "the Doctor's Wife" are far
better advertisments for watching the show.
Originally Posted by Residents Fan:
“"Going Broad" seems to mean a loss of good scripting
and cliches straight out of a bad Hollywood movie.
And let's be honest, how would also-ran
episodes like "The Runaway Bride",
"Voyage of the Damned" or "The Doctor, the Widow
and the Wardrobe" win a member of the general
public over to watching "Doctor Who" regularly?
Episodes like "Rose", "Blink" or "the Doctor's Wife" are far
better advertisments for watching the show.”
“"Going Broad" seems to mean a loss of good scripting
and cliches straight out of a bad Hollywood movie.
And let's be honest, how would also-ran
episodes like "The Runaway Bride",
"Voyage of the Damned" or "The Doctor, the Widow
and the Wardrobe" win a member of the general
public over to watching "Doctor Who" regularly?
Episodes like "Rose", "Blink" or "the Doctor's Wife" are far
better advertisments for watching the show.”
All the Christmas Specials you mention got great ratings, higher than the average for their surrounding series. Why wouldn't some of the new people who watched them want to continue with the series.
Rose is an excellent introduction to Who, as that what it was designed for. Blink, however, is barely Doctor Who and The Doctor's Wife is a self-referential episode about the show itself, which would make no sense to a new viewer.
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