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EE - Has BK really been that bad? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,234
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EE - Has BK really been that bad?
Has BK really been that bad for eastenders? Ok so maybe he got it wrong with making Michael tommys dad instead of Alfie and the Baby Swap and kinda ruined both Kat and Ronnie but Kat is still salvagable and Ronnie, even though i liked the character, was kinda unoriginal, she was merely just a mixture of Sharon and Kat together imo. He also seems to be copping a lot of flack for the recasts but imo they have been for the best. Lauren is a far better character now and the tweaks they have made to bens character are bit streched but at least they have kept him consistent since i.e he pushed glenda down the stairs and let peter get blamed, then there was the patrick incident, the christian incident and now the stalking. However these "mistakes" aside has it really been that bad?
Some of good things like Billie Jacksons death and the improvement of Janines character rarely get praised. Also the Tanya/Max reveal and the introduction of Cora and reintroduction of Rainie have been good. Michael Moon took a while to settle in but now i think he is a good addition to the cast. Also the reintroduction of Mandy has freshend ian's character and bringing in Rose and Andrew has given Dot and Heather something to do. Also the stalker storyline has finally begun to utilise Denise and Patrick and with the upcoming return of David Wicks there should be scope for plenty of quality drama. Also the Yusef storyline was good but went a bit stale in the latter stages but picked up again for an explosive finale. The reason for the lull in that storyline may be due to the extensive rewrites in scripts this year because the baby swap was cut short. But all in all Kirkwood hasnt been a total disaster.....has he? What does everyone else think? |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Sorry, one thing - Janine's character improving? All she does is be bitchy, then try and make up, then be bitchy, then try to make up...
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#3 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: England
Posts: 6,339
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I think he's been terrible.
Characterisation has been dreadful. People have been doing things out of character since he came into the show and have been made really unlikeable. Families have been ruined. Couples have been broken up. Too many affairs. Phil and Shirley, Syed and Christian, Ricky and Bianca, Kat and Alfie and Ian and Jane have suffered as a result of at least one of these. Writing has been, for the most part, beyond poor. Plots have been poorly paced, dragged out, told in blocks, written in ways that make them unbelievable and unrealistic- just look at the state the Yusef plot was in- and so they lose much of their credibility. I could go on, but I'd be here all day. Yes, Kirkwood has done some good things, but if I were to write them as a list and compare them to the bad things, the negatives would totally outweigh the positives. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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I think BK has been alright, some of the storylines has been ok but I think there is still something missing. For example, the Yusef storyline went on a bit and the fire at the end I think was poor. And now Ben is suppose to be stalking Phil...it is getting more weird.
However, I do agree with the return of Mandy she has given Ian some more character. Also, Tanya's cancer storyline was very good and emotional
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#5 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monologue Central
Posts: 4,712
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Quote:
Sorry, one thing - Janine's character improving? All she does is be bitchy, then try and make up, then be bitchy, then try to make up...
She's dull and boring. Her character arc was a lot more interesting during her last stint. |
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#6 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Services
Posts: 921
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i disagree
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#7 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
Posts: 26,708
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Yes I am afraid he has been...
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 2,714
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I haven't been a fan. I can't put my finger on it but Eastenders just doesn't seem right to me anymore. Some characters have been changed too much and Kat and Alfie have been ruined. To me there seems no love there between them.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
Sorry, one thing - Janine's character improving? All she does is be bitchy, then try and make up, then be bitchy, then try to make up...
Spoiler
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#10 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,948
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Some positives and negatives just like any other EP.
Positives for me are the introduction of Michael Moon and Cora Cross, more community feel, nods to EE's past e.g. mentions and visits of past characters like Alan Jackson, Sonia, David Wicks. Also standout episodes like Billie's death and yesterday's episode. I also loved Janine's apology to Whitney when she tried to rescue her from Rob and her grandmother storyline. I'm also enjoying her relationship with Michael. Negatives are the destruction of Kat and Alfie, in particular Kat. Also, block story-telling has caused frustration for me, as it has effectively caused lack of interest in storylines that disappear for weeks on end, e.g. Tanya's cancer, and also the Yusef storyline disappeared for months. And changing characters to suit storylines rather than the storylines being character-driven. And the break ups of virtually all the longstanding couples, although some of these have been because of actors leaving/going on maternity leave. In short, I've known EE to be better and I've known it to be worse. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Well, he started off very well, meaning that July to October 2010 was superb viewing, but the ball dropped and he gave us EastEnders' worsr ever year (2011).
To his credit, Diedrick Santer was a dreadful producer, too, but that's no excuse for how poor this year has been. Kate Harwood and Diedrick Santer have nothing on him. At least Kate Harwood gave us a terrific year (2005), despite giving us a poor one (2006), so I was a mixed bag with her, which narrowed her down to average; at least Diedrick Santer gave us a good latter half of 2007 period. I didn't like 2008 and didn't enjoy 2009 very much but they were watchable and had some decent stuff going on, amongst the tedium and sensationalism. Whilst Bryan Kirkwood gave us a good second half of 2010, 2011 has been so poor that it has outdone his work. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Well, he started off very well, meaning that July to October 2010 was superb viewing, but the ball dropped and he gave us EastEnders' worsr ever year (2011).
To his credit, Diedrick Santer was a dreadful producer, too, but that's no excuse for how poor this year has been. Kate Harwood and Diedrick Santer have nothing on him. At least Kate Harwood gave us a terrific year (2005), despite giving us a poor one (2006), so I was a mixed bag with her, which narrowed her down to average; at least Diedrick Santer gave us a good latter half of 2007 period. I didn't like 2008 and didn't enjoy 2009 very much but they were watchable and had some decent stuff going on, amongst the tedium and sensationalism. Whilst Bryan Kirkwood gave us a good second half of 2010, 2011 has been so poor that it has outdone his work. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 13,401
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Yet another BK thread
I dont believe he has been bad as what some people have suggested. He had to cope with losing three of the shows biggest characters in Ronnie, Stacey and Peggy-all of which decided to leave before he arrived but he had the task of coming up with there exits, he also has Pat's exit as well-that is quite alot of big exits to get right and i cant remember an EE Producer having so many big characters leaving but apart from Pam all the other three were already leaving so he cant be blamed there. His creations i agree leave alot to be desired, Vanessa & Julie had alot of potential but both were underused and then written out, Poppy & Jodie didnt ever have much purpose before also being axed. His successes have been Cora, Michael and bringing in Kim full time, Lola is also good and could potentially be excellent. I liked that he brought Mandy back as it has given Ian a new lease of life. Tyler & Anthony-they are ok but like Vanessa, Julie, Poppy etc there doesnt seem to be much story development. Some of his stories/episodes have been excellent-Billie's death is one of Eastenders finest episodes ever, Branning week was excellent. Lydia's death episode and Vanessa's breakdown are also great highlights and I also loved the story of Dot's lonelyness-a great story played out over a number of months and I think Jim going back into care was a great and bold decsion as it has given Dot a new direction which was badly needed. I cant praise enough what he has done with Janine, easily one of the best characters in the show now, and her and Michael are a great pairing. I also like Tamwar's development under him and I think the recasts of Ben and Lauren especially has paid off-Jacqueline Jossa is great and has made Lauren interesting. Certain stories have dragged, the Eddie Moon story was an absolute bore and some of those episodes after Tyler's fight and Eddies exit were some of the worst I have ever seen. Parts of the Yusef story also dragged and Kat & Alfie have also bored me alot at times. Characters like Denise & Jay have been far underused this year and need more screentime. This Christmas has been good and ive liked the different selection of characters that have been used. I personally think he has done well, not the best era and 2011 wont be a vintage year but nowhere near as bad as what some people have made out. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Midlands, UK
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Characters and storylines dissapearing for large periods of time has been an issue in the last 12 months.
Tanya dissapeared before the week that Max came back, Ian hardly had any screentime in the run up to his wedding to Mandy and has dissapeared again over Christmas, Dot hasn't been seen for a while - unless the actress herself is wanting to slow down - the Moon brothers are quite pointless at the moment, Jay isn't doing anything important and Christian and Syed dissapeared for several months too. In fact Syed has hardly featured in the big storyline involving his parents over Christmas....what was that all about? |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 369
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Sorry he has ruined Kat for me, even though I still love her as a character she ain't the same as she use to be and they need stop making her have too many affairs, she should get way better storylines than that. Also the stalker reveal was really disappointing - making Ben the stalker was just too predictable, I wanted it to be some1 who would actaully surprise us, that was defo no shock. I am really hoping that Pat's exit is good as it seems, she needs an exit that she deserves, since she has been the longest female character in EE
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#16 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
Posts: 26,708
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Why isn't the wonderful Ann Mitchell aka Cora Cross not the Queen Bee of the Queen Vic????
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#17 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,993
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Yeah, he is that bad. I was hoping that the stalker would be someone who had real hatred and was ready to stand up and take on the fat potato head Phil, but i think the first thing Ben said when he was found out was "I'm sorry" lol .
I was also expecting a dramatic and entertaining reveal of who the stalker was, but Phil's doormat Shirley found out in the middle of the episode, in a really nonsensical and ridiculous way. The whole reveal was laughable and spineless from Kirkwood. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Its marmite for me, the characterization and development of some characters have been terrible, the break up of families and relationships have not left anything to be desired, the constant recastings, the poor introduction of some of the new characters, the dragging of storylines plus the dropping in and out of others, the reliant of the same plot themes over and over with out any breaks, I don't think his time on EE will be looked on fondly but then again who says the next EP will be any better.
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#19 |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,052
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Yes he has been. He's responsible for ruining so many characters and giving the go ahead to some absurd storylines. I will be so happy when he leaves.
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#20 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,357
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He's been excellent. He has got the entire nation watching this Xmas. Though he did get the baby swap storyline horribly wrong.
If you want to see a producer not up to the job look at Phil Collinson. |
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#21 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,061
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Quote:
Its marmite for me, the characterization and development of some characters have been terrible, the break up of families and relationships have not left anything to be desired, the constant recastings, the poor introduction of some of the new characters, the dragging of storylines plus the dropping in and out of others, the reliant of the same plot themes over and over with out any breaks, I don't think his time on EE will be looked on fondly but then again who says the next EP will be any better.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
I fully agree with this, the guy has just been epically ordinary not the worse but far from the best.I dont even know why this thread was created.Its like every time we see a stellar episode amnesia kicks in and the months of plodding that proceeded it is suddenly forgotten.Back to square one with threads like these re-evaluating whether hes been that bad after all
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#23 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,097
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I feel that he has not been too bad. I was very disappointed with three aspects.
1. Pacing/writing- For me, the Lucas/Denise storyline was hurried and I felt as if Kirkwood wanted to put an end to Santer's storylines and put a stamp on the show. For the reveal to be spoiled by a game of rounders showed that Kirkwood wanted rid of the storyline so he could introduce his own characters and create his own. It is fair enough but he should have allowed this storyline in particular to run its course as it was well written and you felt that Denise had died. A whole episode should have been devoted to the family trying to overthrow Lucas and escape. 2. Ruining characters. I still feel Pat could have come back at least for a few episodes in the future. I think Pat St Clement will be solely missed as she is a soap icon and is just as important to the show as Ian and Dot and those who have left before her. Going for her death I feel is a poor way for her to depart. Maybe the offer from Simon to start a new life. Another worthwhile mention is Kat and Alfie. I think Kirkwood is trying to make them into the new Den/Angie. They are constantly feuding and trying to keep an united front for the benefit of Shenice and Jean. They are better when they are together as their wedding in 2003 under Louise Berridge showed. Tyler and Anthony seem to be joke characters in that they cannot seem to be taken seriously. They only serve to be love interests for Whitney or for Lauren than full characters. 3. Inconsistency. I know it is hard for the shows writers to consistently write top draw episodes as you get momentary blips with Emmerdale and Coronation Street. However, with this Christmas episode alone, Zainab publicly belittles Yusef in the Square but then allows herself to be drugged. It is subtle incidents like that that show that consistency is something Kirkwood is not good at. Overall, I feel Kirkwood's reign so far has been that of a missed opportunity. Kat and Alfie's return for me was one that could have brought the comedy and irreverence back to the Square. However, instead we find them squabbling over Kat's infidelities. 2012 for me with Pat's death and the planned pregnancy of Janine will see whether Kirkwood can improve the quality of the soap. I think Jordan should be rehired as a writer as he understands Kat/Alfie. Perhaps have a show where they have a heart to heart and concede to each other that they work best together. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,184
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I think he made one bad decision in my opinion, he chose to go forward with the baby swap and then that led Samantha to quit meaning the story had to be cut short and they needed things to replace it, like the Moons, Masoods and Yusef, and the filler things that have taken place. I think there have been some good things like Tanya's Cancer storyline, Whitney's prostitution. I think now we are getting back on track, since November, EE has been great, this week in particular has been spectacular. And if they continue, it'll be great. He just needs to use his characters, its taken a while, but he's using Denise, which is brilliant, but he needs to give Tyler and Anthony a proper storyline for the viewers to like them, instead of forcing them into each episode, But on the other hand, he's using Patrick, he has barely done anything in recent years since Yolande left, but now BK is using him a lot more, which is fantastic too. The stalker storyline, the Masood conclusion, Tanya's Cancer, Whitney's prostitution even the Baby Swap (people just acted badly towards it, but it was a good storyline, acted out fantastically by Jessie, Shane, Sam and Scott), have all been highlights to the year.
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#25 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,061
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^How is he using patrick exactly? please dont tell me the the stuff with the moons and stuff with denise is what you call "using" Quote:
sorry i didnt realise i wasnt entitled to start a topic i had an opinion about. Also i have listed what i thought were his mistakes in original post. I havnt suddenly "forgoten", as u put, the sub-par episodes of his tenure. If u dont like the thread topic then stay out of it
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