(I don't profess to be any more knowledgeable than the average 'armchair expert'. I would welcome the correction of my misperceptions by anybody who IS knowledgeable, and can back up an opinion by pointing to the specifics of particular performances.)

I'm now convinced that the apparent over-scoring of Harry's performances after Week 10 by the two judges who in normal circumstances can be relied upon to be relatively objective was symptomatic of an elaborate charade to disguise Harry's deficiencies as a dancer - in order to create the impression that Harry was more deserving of the crown than were any of the other celebrities.

From the specific observations of the judges it seems to me that Chelsee was in their eyes the most complete dancer by the end of the series, capable by then of delivering a high-quality performance of every one of the 14(?) dances involved. The judges at one time or another singled out for special praise every one of the following aspects of her dancing -

Lines
Posture
Footwork
Armography
Fluidity
Musical phrasing
Characterisation
Artistry

Craig - "You are the most incredible dancer - honestly! It's gobsmackingly good".
Alesha - "You are performing like a true dancer".

I've seen no evidence that Chelsee under-performed in the final due to nerves. I fail to see how anybody suffering from nerves could have nailed a dance as slow as her Rumba. And it's worth bearing in mind that people like Jason and Chelsee couldn't possibly have succeeded as actors if they were prone to succumbing to nerves. One quality which sets gifted performers apart is that the nerves are forgotten as soon as the performance starts. The only evidence of tension I saw from Chelsee throughout the series was a loss of fluidity in the transitions in her American Smooth, presumably due to the thought of being eliminated having come so far and being within touching distance of the final. But she absolutely nailed the Paso which followed.

How does Harry measure up to Chelsee?

The combined Len/Craig scores for the first ten weeks would seem to indicate that he's almost as good as Chelsee - Harry 159 / Chelsee 162. But those stats are quite misleading for three reasons -

1. Chelsee's limitations on training time in the early weeks.
2. The wardrobe malfunction which ruined Chelsee's Tango in Week 5.
3. The fact that the judges tend to show leniency in the early weeks with regard to failure to convey the emotion of the dance.

In the early weeks the celebrities are hard-pressed just to master the steps. But the whole point of Dance is the physical expression of an emotion. Mastering the steps is meaningless if the individual lacks the flair to use them to express himself/herself.

It's worth noting that Chelsee earned an 18 from Len/Craig in Week 4 - something Harry was unable to match until Week 9. And if the scoring after Week 10 did indeed reflect something other than the quality of the performances .....

By the end of the series Harry was able to deliver a fast ballroom dance worthy of a Perfect Score. But he lagged behind Chelsee in practically everything else. Here are three obvious examples -

1. Slow ballroom dances: Harry was complimented in Week 4 on the musical phrasing he displayed in his Waltz - but pulled up by Len over how he used his hands. In the final, Harry delivered his unique Hands of the Ripper American Smooth. The flaw in his technique had still not been rectified, and was so evident that Craig felt obliged to comment upon it. But Len inexplicably ignored the fact that Harry had not responded to his earlier criticism, and adjudged the dance worthy of a Perfect Score.

2. Portrayal of emotion: Harry had two dances after Week 10 where the performance aspect was an essential element -

a) the Argentine Tango - where the essential element is the delivery of fire and passion.

Jason delivered that in spades in his AT - to such an extent that the judges felt justified in overlooking the paucity of technical content. But for me, a comparison of the performances of Kristina and Aliona in that dance really tells the tale. Kristina turned the heat up to Maximum knowing that Jason could match her. I'm certain that Aliona could also have delivered an erotic performance, but simply could not afford to as it would have exposed Harry by comparison. The result was a lukewarm Tango which could have been danced by brother and sister without raising any eyebrows.

But once again Len adjudged Harry's performance worthy of a Perfect Score, as did Craig. They did have a cover story this time, in that they could claim to have 'felt' the fire and passion which Len had argued was absent the first time that Harry performed the dance. No such leeway however in this next example.

b) the Charleston - where the essential element was described by Craig himself when he savaged Alex's "mediocre" performance, despite the standing ovation which had followed it -

"... Not understanding the dance, and the extreme nature that one has to go to in this dance. If you're raising your shoulders it needs to be extreme". Craig and Len awarded 6 and 7 respectively. One has only to look at Jason's version to appreciate the level of characterisation the judges must have been looking for from Harry.

I've viewed Harry's Charleston a number of times now, and "mechanical" would sum it up - almost the opposite of the dynamic performance the judges were hoping to see in that particular dance. There was nothing "extreme" about it. He reproduced the moves Aliona had taught him, but for me even Alex's performance exuded more character. But what of the judges? Were they impressed by Harry's technique and characterisation?

We may never know.

Len was the only judge to comment, with a rather ambiguous "Two things were revealed - Aliona's midriff and your talent. If you can come out and do a Vienesse Waltz to that standard ....."

At the time I'm sure it puzzled most of us that an extra minute couldn't be found so that we could hear even briefly from the other three judges. After all, how much time was available throughout that program for the comparatively-meaningless interviews with Tess? They couldn't find an extra minute for such a key element as the judges' verdicts?

I'm now convinced that Craig was not prepared to lie about what he saw, and that there was a real danger at that point of the wheels coming off the Harry bandwagon.

Harry's limitations were beginning to show. He had ended the previous week in fourth place below Chelsee, Holly and Jason. Had Craig proceeded to point out that Harry's Charleston was as fundamentally flawed as Alex's it would not only have made it difficult for the other judges to award 10s, it could have produced an anxiety-riddled second dance which left Harry once more adrift of the other three - and in real danger of being one of the two celebrities eliminated, despite his McFly support.

The solution was the quick step we saw from the dancing to the scoring, skipping the assessment part.

In the semi-final last year Kara performed her highest-scoring dance. It was unsurprisingly the automatic choice of the judges for her first dance in the final. Chelsee's spectacular Perfect Paso should have been first on the list of the dances for an occasion like the Blackpool final, yet she rather conveniently ended up with a dance which was unlikely to attract any voters who would not have been attracted in any event by her show dance.

All of these anomalies seem strongly suggestive of a rather cynical and arrogant exercise in deception.

Or an elaborate conspiracy theory.

Has this been consuming you all through Christmas and New Year! How sad!!!!

It's all over for 2011 and the winner is who the public voted for and wanted to win, and a very worthy winner as far as I'm concerned.

It was in the rules this year that none of the contestants could repeat their semi-final performances. So Chelsee wouldn't have been able to perform the Paso in the final.

Personally I think that you are having difficulty excepting that your favourite didn't win so are inventing conspiracy theories.

Precisely, on BOTH counts.

[quote=Selena;55620561]It was in the rules this year that none of the contestants could repeat their semi-final performances. So Chelsee wouldn't have been able to perform the Paso in the final.

I seem to be hearing that quite a lot from people who are blind to Harry's shortcomings as a dancer. What I'm still waiting for is evidence that such a rule actually existed.

It certainly would make no sense whatsoever to impose a limitation which prevents a dancer from showcasing in the final the skills acquired during the course of the competition.

I look forward to you producing evidence to back up what you have claimed.

[quote=apenny4them;55621069]
I believe that Kristina posted on Twitter that they couldn't perform any dance from the semis in the final, hence not repeating their AT, which was their highest score by quite a margin.

I'm going by what Kristina posted on Twitter at the time.

Also i'm not blinded by anybody's shortcomings. And to be blunt I think that you might be.

I believe that Kristina posted on Twitter that they couldn't perform any dance from the semis in the final, hence not repeating their AT, which was their highest score by quite a margin.[/quote]

Thanks - but we're no further forward. Given the unexplained quick step to which I referred it would not surprise me in the slightest if an unofficial 'rule' was invented at the last minute in order to benefit Harry. But I've scoured the BBC SCD web site and been unable to confirm that such a rule was in existence before the final.

It may be worth bearing in mind that Kristina is a BBC employee - as are the four judges.

And the motive for the conspiracy was.....? (I'm intrigued, as I would like to understand the BBC's all consuming passion for a Harry win. Especially since I take the simplistic view that Harry was the best dancer.

You know, all of the celebs are going to be far from perfect dancers (and therefore theoretically none of them 10s). Sometimes you shouldn't just look for negative things. There are positive reasons why the judges might mark someone more highly or give them a 10. Sometimes the judges mention something that viewers can more easily relate to like hands or a too serious facial expression, and people on here obsess about it

If the OP thinks that Harry and Aliona's Argentine Tango could have been danced by brother and sister then you must of had an interesting family christmas.

I do love reading conspiracy theories about a Saturday night entertainment show, I hear Harry was on the grassy knoll all those years ago.

[quote=apenny4them;55619992]

From the specific observations of the judges it seems to me that Chelsee was in their eyes the most complete dancer by the end of the series, capable by then of delivering a high-quality performance of every one of the 14(?) dances involved.
This seems very similar to your SCD final in an ideal world thread so forgive me if I paraphrase one of my responses there in stating that out of all of the dances performed Chelsee scored the highest mark in 5 of them Harry in 7.


[quote=apenny4them;55619992]
Craig - "You are the most incredible dancer - honestly! It's gobsmackingly good".
Alesha - "You are performing like a true dancer".
I could quite happily trawl through Harry's dances again to find superlatives from the judges of equal ;gusiness' (not just for Harry but Jason, Holly Alex Anita .....)

[quote=apenny4them;55619992]
Harry's limitations were beginning to show. He had ended the previous week in fourth place below Chelsee, Holly and Jason.
This was because he had the cursed rumba for which he scored the joint highest mark for a male celeb ever,

[quote=apenny4them;55619992]
(Re Harry;s charleston and the fact that we only got to hear one judges' comments)
I'm now convinced that Craig was not prepared to lie about what he saw, and that there was a real danger at that point of the wheels coming off the Harry bandwagon.
Then why not also hear from Alesha and Bruno who thought it worthy of a 10? Far more likely to be a mistake by Bruce or an over-running issue.

The beauty of Strictly (and the beauty of dance in general) is that it moves us all in different ways. It;s the emotional connection that makes you so passionate about Chelsee, me so about Harry. This forum, Strictly and the world would be a greyer place if we all saw beauty in the same things.

Happy new year and may your favourite lift the glitterball next year!

Thanks - but we're no further forward. Given the unexplained quick step to which I referred it would not surprise me in the slightest if an unofficial 'rule' was invented at the last minute in order to benefit Harry. But I've scoured the BBC SCD web site and been unable to confirm that such a rule was in existence before the final.

It may be worth bearing in mind that Kristina is a BBC employee - as are the four judges.[/quote]

As are Pasha & Aliona. As is Chelsee - doubly so as she works on Waterloo Road, as well as SCD. The point being?

Besides, in other years there has been a rule about dances from semis not being repeated. The one that sticks in my mind is Matt di Angelo's 40 scoring waltz. On the other hand, Chris Hollins was allowed to repeat his perfect Charleston. Frankly, I'd rather not have repeats - it's distinctly boring seeing the same dance two weeks in a row, as could arguably be said about Harry's VW and AS.

Also, the rules are extremely fluid. What are the rules for breaking hold, time allowed on props, whether lifts are allowed? Posters on DS have complained for some time that we just don't know, and they are made up as they go along.

It has been in existence since at least series three. Darren Gough said after his final that he would have preferred to do Waltz, which was his highest scoring ballroom routine, but wasn't allowed because it was performed in the semi.

Thanks, but

1) Why does it not appear on the BBC SCD web site?

2) Kara did not perform her Rumba last year until the semi-final. But she repeated it a week later in the final.

I'm not sure the BBC SCD site can be entirely trusted:


Tell that to Alex, who almost always performed in the first half of the show, and Russell who propped up the end of the show more often than not.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the rules are very fluid. Rules on how much time in hold, how much time spent on props, whether lifts are allowed are not mentioned on the web site. Why grumble about this one, when posters here have given you examples of times it was and wasn't allowed? What rules are on the website?

This isn't the first thread you've posted that seems to suggest there was a conspiracy theory to make Harry win, yet you've given no concrete evidence to back up your claims and everything you say is entirely subjective. The vast majority of the Chelsee fans on here have had the good grace to accept that she didn't win and move on, and been gracious in their loss. So why stir up trouble now?


Apparent being the optimum word. I could equally argue Chelsee was overmarked several times, most obviously in the semi-final.



They said basically the same things to Harry every time he danced a ballroom dance, and also when he danced the Rumba. It's all for effect, it's all hyperbole. None of the celebrities would make it past the first couple of rounds of an amateur dancesport competition, if they even got past round 1. They're taught specific routines, nothing in which suggests that they are 'true dancers'. But the judges have to think of comments that are different rather than just saying 'that was good' every time, which they could easily do.


Her Rumba was littered with mistakes - I saw loss of balance several times, she had to correct foot positioning quite obviously at one point so she could do the next step, and she kept looking at the floor. Her Jive kicks weren't technically correct - she was kicking towards the ceiling when she should have kicked towards the floor - and her hands were flat. In her showdance she nearly fell over. There are equal criticisms to be made of all the finalists - I could criticise Harry's hand at the start of the QS, and Jason's posture in the Tango was awful - but I'm focusing on Chelsee as she is the subject of your comment.


She doesn't have be 'prone' to suffering from nerves to suffer from them once - she was out of her comfort zone, of course she's going to be nervous! Harry looked terrified at the start of his QS, and Jason's nerves were evident in his showdance.


There was a clear stumble in that as well, so I dispute that she entirely 'nailed' it.



That's her problem. Harry was penalised a week's training as he did the CIN special with Ola, and it's not his fault that he had more free time to train.


That's life, it happens. If Aliona had ever caught her foot in one of her dresses I'd be saying exactly the same thing.


Well then they were equally doing so with Chelsee, who failed to show any emotion in her Argentine Tango.


But equally emoting is meaningless if you cannot master and perform the steps. It works both ways.


You forget that scoring in the final is not like scoring any other week. The obvious example being Chris getting a perfect score for his Charleston in the series 7 final. Judges' score in the final are meaningless and they know it, so the marks skyrocket.

And if you want an example of Harry being able to do a slow ballroom dance, I need only point you to his semi-final Viennese Waltz...


As I said, scores in the final are inflated. BUT I must have been watching a different dance, as I saw plenty of passion from Harry. Just because it wasn't the wild display Jason and Kristina gave doesn't mean it was there. It was more subtle, and it worked.



I've viewed it many times and thought it was fabulous - crisp, clean and dynamic. The judges mark subjectively, so just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they're wrong. I disagreed with Chelsee getting 39 for her Jive, and Jason getting 40 for his AT, but I wouldn't make a wild insinuation from that that there was a conspiracy theory to get them further...


No-one knew how Harry would perform that Charleston - he could have dropped Aliona in the middle of it! So how you can claim that there was a pre-arranged conspiracy only to hear from one judge is completely beyond me. Not all the judges speak every time, that's just the nature of the show. And they often get their timings wrong - the end of the final being a prime example - so I don't see anything unusual in only one judge speaking. Someone could easily have decided they needed to push the show on to make sure they didn't run over.

And for goodness sake, how on earth do you know what Craig saw? What he thought of it? Unless you can somehow get inside his head, you don't, and to extrapolate something from nothing is really going a bit too far.



That was a different rule for last year. Every other year of the competition semi-final dances have not been allowed in the final. It just used to be less obvious because everyone did AT in the semis, so only had one dance ruled out for the final. A prime example is series 5 - Matt got 40 for his semi-final waltz, but had to dance AS in the final. His waltz was the only ballroom that could compete with Alesha's gorgeous waltz, but as she did that in week 7, she could dance it again, whereas he could not.


I don't understand why Chelsee picked her QS either, she had plenty of other ballroom dances. But that was Pasha's mistake, nothing more. Aliona's choices were entirely within the rules, and Harry was never going to get anything other than QS for the judges' choice. I also don't think Chelsee would have got anything other than Jive - she topped the leaderboard that week and it's much more of a crowd-pleaser than her Paso. Her downfall was having Rumba as her new dance, and that was the pro's choice too. Aliona didn't have a choice as Paso was disallowed because Harry had done it before.

The BBC site has never had all the information, it's not exactly useful.

There was for some reason a different rule last year. Another poster has pointed out that Darren wanted to dance waltz in series 3, equally Matt Di Angelo should have danced waltz in series 5 but couldn't because he danced it in the semi-final.
The cynic in me would suggest the rule change last year allowed the producers to capitalise on the Kara/Artem romance story, but I would hope that's not the case.

Either way, the rule has been in existence for all the other series, and reinstating it was one change they got right this year, even though it meant Harry couldn't redo his VW or Jason his AT.

Chris first danced his Charleston the week before the quarter-final!

Whoops! I must admit to not paying much attention that year - shows, doesn't it!? Of course, that was the only time they tried the rock and roll which saw off Natalie Cassidy, I should have remembered.

So does that make Kara the only person to repeat a semi dance?

To be fair, apart from the obligatory Argentine Tangos, the semis dances in Series 7 were repeats already, of a minorly tweaked sort, as they were in Series 6.

I thought it very odd that only one judge spoke. From memory I think we have seen just the three judges speak because of timing numerous times, but I don't ever recall only one or two judges speaking.

I am happy to be corrected, I haven't seen some of the earlier series and my memory isn't great.

I am not supporting the OP in anyway, just picked up on this point because I recall thinking it very odd at the time.

No, you're right, it is odd, but it could easily be explained by either a production decision re: timing, or by Bruce forgetting, as someone else pointed out. I just don't see the point in making a conspiracy out of any tiny little irregular thing...

To be honest, I don't even remember that only one judge spoke, it really isn't all that important, is it? The importance is in their scores, not what they say.

Oh agreed on the highlighted part....and no it was of no importance at all, just odd.

Both Kara's highest scoring dances (39 each for Rumba and VW) were in the SF.

Prior to the SF, her highest scoring dance which also topped the leaderboard in its week was her rather poor CCC with 36.
(She had scored some 38s/37 but they didn't top the leaderboard).

That's why Kara was allowed to do her SF Rumba in the final.