Lets face it, the only judges the contestants wanted to impress was Jason and Robin a bit like contestants on SCD ony wanting to impress Craig

Thinking avout Jason going!... i wonder if it has anything to do with the insults he threw at Karen ;last year?... i think he was on pretty dodgy ground there for a while so maybe this is the outcome of it and they decided his time was now definately up...........

I'll miss him and his nasty comments like a hole in the head.

After his comments to Sharron Davies and latterly his spat with Karen last year ("If your opinion mattered you would still be on the panel!" or WTTE) he was definitely on shaky ground.

He had no real credentials to be there anyway - a little known choreographer and mediocre dancer with no real ice skating knowledge - just tried to do a poor impression of fellow Aussie Craig Revel Horwood on SCD without the credentials to back it up!

I won't miss the poisonous little troll at all - and look forward to seeing Katarina Witt and Louie Spence on the panel.

Which bit of 9/10 times, his comments were the most constructive translates into "everything he's ever said is brilliant advice"?

However, your reaction to my post does underline my view that most people who complain about what Jason says don't actually listen to what he says, but simply react without thinking.

I wasn't that keen on his "faecal matter" comments, but it wasn't nearly as awful as some people claimed. The imagery was crude, but the point was simply that she was boring to watch, going round and round in circles, wearing brown, with no particular point and he was waiting for it to finish. It wasn't personal, although Sharron obviously took it personally, and he has to take a certain amount of responsibility for that, as it was already clear she had no sense of humour when it came to critiques of her skating. But at the same time, she and everyone else who decided it was an unforgivable personal slur made themselves look either stupid or petty.


Why is it a pity? What is it to you if I don't watch it?

It's not because of Craig that I stopped watching. I just find it all a bit tedious and the fact that when I did watch it, I thought Craig less interesting and less constructive than Jason is not why I stopped watching. Perhaps he does give more specific advice these days than a bland "darling, darling, darling, that was awful", which will be good, but how does that mean Jason is trying to be like him?

I really couldn't care less about what Craig says, but I'm entitled to my opinion that he didn't give better feedback than Jason. He's just a bit blander and posher as far as I can tell. If you like that - lovely. Go and talk about him in the SCD forum. I'm bored with SCD fans coming into the DOI forum just to say that their favourite show is better.

I don't think Jason is perfect, and what he said to Karen last year was not at all acceptable. Not that she behaved well either, but that was a discussion for last year. The very fact that people who claimed Jason was under-qualified are looking forward to Louie says it all.

At least when Louie takes his seat on the panel

a. people have heard of him and his work
b. he is successful in his own field
c. whilst he can be sarcastic and bitchy his comments on screen aren't usually overly offensive (designed to shock rather than offend) - and a lot of people (me included) like his sense of humour - and unlike Jason - Louie HAS got a sense of humour!.

As I said in my post above - when DOI started - Jason was a complete unknown with very little notable work on his CV in either dancing or choreography. Apart from his time on DOI that is still true - he's now best known for being the very nasty judge on DOI rather than any of his other professional work.

Before DOI Jason was a complete nonentity - and now he has been sacked (for whatever reason) he will probably drop back into the obscurity he was dragged from. He is a classic case of someone who doesn't know what he's taking about finding a nice well paid niche, and getting an inflated opinion of his importance to the show - he's just found out that he's not indispensible and there are other more qualified bums which will fit his seat.

I think the panel ihas got the right balance now with two champion skaters (albeit in solo skating rather than ice dance), but both with years of experience performing in and choreographing ice shows. and one well known "performance" judge.

At least most of the panel know how different is is to dance on a slippery hard surface whilst balanced on two narrow blades than in sensible footwear on a nice sprung floor! That was something Jason seemed to forget. I'm sure the celebs are more concerned about actually staying upright in the early weeks rather than worrying about their bums sticking out and finishing their lines.

I remember seeing Jason on Queer Eye admittedly only a little but he was never that bitchy on there that I can remember. I think it's a shame he went a bit too far sometimes on DOI.

Seems the meaning of my comments were lost in translation. What part of this comment

implies that I'm suggesting you believe that



I did actually listen to what he said and I quote:

I thought then as I still think now that his comments were a supercilious attempt at a clever put down. Far from achieving his aims he simply proved himself to be an attention seeking, inarticulate little creep, unable to offer constructive advice without resorting to insult.

They do say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I hope you feel duly flattered if I paraphrase your comments thus:However your reaction to my post does underline my view that most of those who excuse his indefensible behaviour don't actually listen to what he says, but simply accept his appalling behaviour without thinking.

There are other ways of making a point without falling back on the last resort of the inarticulate and self absorbed i.e. crudity and insult and to justify Jason's rudenss by invoking Sharron's alleged sense of humour bypass really does seem a desperate attempt to excuse his offensive behaviour. I wonder how those who consider his comments 'not too awful' would react if similar insults were directed at them.

I simply suggested you watch Craig on SCD to see how the put down is done, constructively and without malice - not for one minute was I suggesting that you should watch a programme you don't find enjoyable.

I watch both - always have done; which is why I feel qualified to comment on both 'nasty' judges.

You are indeed entitled to an opinion - but as this is a forum those who disagree are entitled to air their views and their reasons for doing so. Furthermore we have as much right to post on the DOI forum as you. As for your assertion that SCD fans come into the DOI forum to compare the shows - when did I do this?

I've watched both shows since their inception - both shows have their individual strengthes and weaknesses and never have I suggested either to be superior to the other.


I know nothing of Louie Spence - but though time might prove me wrong, I cannot imagine anyone more off putting than Jason Gardiner.

His bank manager?

He had to go because he upset Karen, who is now half of an item with Chris Dean, who is the man in charge of the show. He did not go after the "faecal" comment.

Yep, you got it in one

and he was right with his comment to Karen of



"If your opinion mattered you would still be on the panel!"

It was true, if her comments were that important she would have been a judge as she was in previous years not sitting trying to look glam (her boob job will never beat Hollies naturals)

Yes she helps train the celebs but so does her ex and you dont see him sitting in prime position with the celebs
Chris is keeping her sweet IMO

You are yet again proving my point that you didn't read and understand what I wrote. I don't see any point in trying to break it down further.

You don't like Jason, that's fine. But you challenged me on something I didn't even say in the first place. And now you are trying to pick me up on another thing I didn't say.

Or did you have someone else in mind who you think simply accepts his appalling behaviour without thinking?

It is because of people like you that I'm glad Jason has gone. It's a shame, because he was an interesting judge, but the petty whining from people who don't listen got in the way.

And to whoever thinks that a reason Louie is better for the job is because he's more famous, would you rather Emma Bunton stayed on the panel over Katrina Witt? If not, it's a spurious reason. Jason and Louie have very similar career backgrounds I'm sure are equally qualified to comment from a dancing perspective. They are both experienced dancers, and fundamentally, they've both been involved with teaching. Jason's particular experience was that he'd worked with a whole load of pop stars doing their tour and video choreography, which is exactly where he'd learned to describe how to achieve certain poses and postures using non-technical and colourful language. It's probably why he always got on well with the pop stars, who were used to that sort of style.

I don't know if Louie can skate, but Jason can. It's a shame he never did it on camera, but according to Phillip, he'd seen him, and he's a good skater. He's plainly not on the same level as the skating judges, but it's wrong to imply he doesn't understand that skating is different to dancing. I also think it's wrong to suggest that he under-estimated the skating. He was frequently encouraging people to work on their speed and he recognised bad skating when he saw it. He kept his comments to the overall performance, but he didn't give dreadful skaters good marks like Ruthie did because they had a nice smile.

Regarding Karen, she should have been more than qualified to judge, but she let herself get too close to the contestants. It was always a bit dubious having her as coach and judge, and she struggled to handle the conflict. She's better off in her new role. I just hope that this year they will go to her for general, technical comments, and not just to give blind support to the skaters after a judge has said something negative.

But if he thought that she was boring, with the routine going round and round in circles, then why didn't he just say that? He didn't need to effectively liken her to a turd. It was a disgusting thing to say.

The words he used were, "With the brown costume and everything, it was like watching faecal matter that doesn't flush." To me, that says that he wouldn't have said that if Sharron Davies wasn't wearing a brown costume. After all, he couldn't have said that if she was wearing any other colour.

And as Holly told him after he said what he did, "That's not her fault", because it wasn't. She had no control over her costume, and as a judge, he was not supposed to be there to judge her on what she was wearing. It should have been about her performance, and nothing else.


Again, like with the "faecal matter" comment, Jason was only supposed to be there to judge on the performances he was seeing each week. What he said to Karen had nothing to do with any of the performances. It was directed solely at her and nobody else. That is what made it so personal. It was not up to him to say what he did.

Whether you like or dislike Karen is besides the point. Her opinion obviously does matter because her working life has been based around ice skating; not just as a competitor herself, but also as a judge and now mentor. It is something she has been involved with for many years. So she quite clearly knows what she is talking about. With the role she now has as head coach, she, (as well as Jayne and Chris), probably knows better than anyone else how each celebrity is doing each week - how they are coping, what they are struggling with, what they need to improve on, (etc). That's why she is there each week so she can let the viewing public know this.

And I think that being a head coach is actually a promotion for a judging role. The judges can only go on what they see each Sunday night. As a head coach, Karen constantly works very closely for each of the celebrities throughout the whole week, so she is more involved than the judges are and has a bigger role in the show than them.

That would be me!!

I don't think Louie will be better because he is more famous... I think will be better as he arrives on the panel as a well known dancer and choreographer with a great CV. He doesn't need to go out of his way to be nasty and offensive to get his name known.... he already is and can concentrate on doing what he's being paid to - and judge the performance aspects of the skaters routines (although why they need a specialist "performance" judge to sit alongside two of the greatest performers on ice that the world has ever seen baffles me - both Robin and Katarina are great performers and in Robin's case, ICE SHOW choreographers in their own right).

Emma Bunton and Ruthie Henshall were the biggest wastes of space ever on the panel ... but at least Ruthie was a pretty good dancer and performer. I'm almost as glad to see the back of Emma as i am of Jason.

Everyone recalls Jason's infamous faecal matter comment - but don't forget - even in series 1 he was incredibly rude to Kelly Holmes with comments about her looking like a man in drag, and comparing her to a bulldog running around in a park - again not constructive and nothing about how she could improve. He also compared Greg Rusedski to Herman Munster and there was at least one person (usually a sports star) who he was gratuitously offensive to in each series.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I never said the comment was OK. I simply said that 9/10 times his comments were the most constructive - ie directly useful - of what was said by the panel. I never claimed that particular comment was constructive or nice or brilliant or anything else all of his haters seem to assume must be the case of anyone who liked him.

It wasn't a very nice thing to say, but it wasn't half as awful as some people make out. If I was wearing brown, and someone said I looked like a big jobby, I'd laugh. The mistake was saying it to a contestant who had already shown she wasn't good at taking criticism, and who was already on edge when it came to his comments. I'm fairly certain that some of the others could have handled it a lot better.

IMO, Jason's worst comments were when he said things along the lines of wishing he could vote both of the bottom two off. That's unhelpful, because the people in the bottom two couldn't help being rubbish. There are a few contestants that haven't tried as hard as they should have done, or have had a bit of an attitude, but the majority do try hard, and not being brilliant can't be helped.

I knew it had got ridiculous when people wanted Chloe to be offended because Jason said she stuck her bum out like a duck.

The thing with Sharron was, her kids were getting picked on in school because of what Jason had said to her in the first show. When Sharron had said something about it, (I'm not sure if she said it to him or whether she mentioned it in an interview somewhere), Jason just said, "Get over it", which isn't the most helpful thing to say when Sharron's own kids, who had done nothing wrong, were getting hurt by what he was saying. So she was quite understandably not very pleased with him. Sharron could take criticism, (she would have to from having a career based in sport); just as long as it was constructive and not when he was making it personal towards her.

Please tell me what it is you didn't say upon which you are being challenged.

One can always convince onself that a point has been proved - often with little or nothing to back up such a conviction - so far you have posted nothing that would induce me to change my mind - but hey that's what forums are for; the opportunity to air one's opinion.


People like me are entitled to an opinion. People like me are entitled to feel relief and satisfaction that he has gone.

I suspect it was because of people like you that he far outstayed his welcome on DOI.

I know nothing of Louie - I'll make judgement once I see and hear his critiques, but you may be right about Jason's background in working with pop stars - and that probably explains why he was able to communicate effectively only with those who inhabited his own narrow world. Of course not all competitors were/are pop stars which did perhaps render him unsuitable and unqualified to judge contestants from other backgrounds and disciplines; e.g. sports people, presenters, etc.

As someone who claims to understand Jason's assessments and criticisms could you please explain to me what the following contestants were supposed to work on after these comments.[LIST][*]Dominic Cork: The first thing I like about your performance is when it's over.[*]Greg Rusedski: Greg you have the charisma of cardboard.[*]And as CaroUK reminded us - comparing Kelly Holmes to a man in drag.[*]Todd Carty: You look like you've crapped yourself.[/LIST]Jason does seem to have an obsession with excrement - even using it to describe Chris Fountain's improvement when he commented "Proof that you can polish a poo."

I like Louis but because he speaks so fast I do wonder if the American contestants will understand him.

Oh, and NO! I will certainly NOT miss Jason.

In fact YIPPEE!!

I've got work to go to, so I'm not going to bother with the rest, and quite frankly, if you can't work out what it means when someone is described as looking like they've crapped themselves, then you aren't going to manage it because I explain it. And quite frankly, neither you, nor Jason are worth all of this time. He's not coming back, so everyone who hates him with an irrational passion can relax and don't need to bang on about every wrong move he made that people who like him weren't defending anyway.

Nevertheless, and not for the first time. I said that 9/10 times, Jason gave the most useful, construtive criticism out of everyone on the panel. You responded to challenge me on what was useful about comparing Sharon to fecal matter.

Now take some time and work out what the mis-match is before getting all snotty at me again.

Not for the first time I will say we are all entitled to an opinion and one cannot be labelled irrational simply because they disagree with your view.

I believe I have made my point with lucidity and have managed to do so without casting aspersions on your rationality, without the use of rolleyes smilies and without the condescen of the BIB

Now might I suggest you take your own advice.

A lot of people over-reacted to what Jason said, and many were much more aggressive in their attacks on him than he'd ever been to any contestant. I was constantly amazed at how rude people who claimed to be campaigning for good manners could be.

He did over-step the mark a couple of times, but I'm not surprised he struggled to gret the right balance, because the sea of knee-jerk reactions masked any genuine advice he may have been given, never mind all of the homophobic and really vile and nasty stuff thrown at him.

People who sign up for a light entertainment show on ITV should expect some banter. It might be unpleasant to hear your performance was bad, but it isn't nasty when that's your job. Greg did have no charisma on the ice, and I would fast forward through Dominic's routines. I see nothing wrong with what he said to them. There isn't anything wrong with using the smilies provided by DS either. If people think they are offensive, lobby the site owners to remove them too!

If you've ever been to the live recording, you'll know that the warm up guy encourages you to boo, and when I went, he specifically suggested booing Jason, but any less than gushing comment would do. This was all part of the atmosphere encouraged by the producers, and they'd have been gutted if he simply said "please do better next week".

Jason was gratuitously offensive to certain celebs from week one of Series 1. There was no question of finding his feet or trying to get the right balance in his comments nastiness was his trademark from the very beginning.

Maybe he wanted to justify his presence - but in that first series, he was the sole "performance" judge on a panel of 5 where the other 4 were all experienced skaters (Barber & Slater, Robin Cousins and Karen Kresge), two of whom were ice show choreographers in their own right, and the other 2 former British Ice dance champions. Among all those talking sense about what they saw - Jason chose the tried and trusted Craig Revel Horwood method of judging - be nasty and ensure that you shock the contestants so much with what you say that they don't focus on any valid advice you might be giving!

As I said before - he was the judge everyone talked about - and because of that he thought he was indispensable - especially after he only got a wrist slapping for the unforgivable comments he made to Sharron Davies.

Unfortunatley choreographers like him are plentiful, and I think he and his ego went too far last series with his personal attack on Karen (who has probably forgotten more about skating than Jason knows) and also the way he reacted to Tim Healy's defence of Denise when Jason gave her some choice comments! He had made himself a liability rather than an asset as the publicity he was getting for the show was all negative.

It will be interesting to see how the new panel gels together - Louie has said he doesn't intend to be a Mr Nasty, and we are back to a properly balanced panel with skaters dominating it. Having seen Katarina guest judging on the Canadian Battle of the Blades - she is knowlegeable and eloquent - and doesn't have the language problems that Natalia Bestemianova had when she was on Series 2

Its a TV show not a technical skating competition and nearly all TV talent shows have the panto nasty judge.it remains to be seen if the alternative works or is too dull.

You can't expect people who happen to know how to skate to be qualified to judge whats entertaining or how good the acting is.Thats why you have dancers/choregraphers and singers/actors on the DOI panel. Many skaters will have employed choregraphers to do that and few will have any TV experience. If you can find a skater who can do that you are lucky. Robin can perform all three roles and Katerina may be able to, or not. You just wouldn't have a dancing show with people talking endlessly about the steps or a singing show with people commenting on the note production - thats why you have an Alesha and a Bruno and a Craig to cover the wider dimensions, why they added Ruthie and Emma to the DOI panel, and why the X factor had two producers who ciuldn't sing a note, on the panel when it worked.

Jason's problem was that his comments got riskier and he crossed borderlines of taste and raised watershed issues two series in a row. He looked dangerous. Its not at ll clear that Louie is more qualified, and he can also be acidic. The question is if he can walk the tightrope bettween being the nasty judge and being unacceptably unpleasant.Judging by his performance on Cirque de Celebrite, there's also a real question over his ability to mark - on that, he tended to mark people relative to their own potential and his expectation rather than against one another or one standard.

Katerina's issue is whether she can escape turning into a Nicky with irrelevant, inconsistent, technical, comments and marking - and escape becoming a Karen, just offering bland positivity. The problem is, that if she does it right ,she will at best just repeat Robin and, at worst, contradict him. The big test will be if the audience follows her. The whole point of an Emma is to give the voters someone popular who can talk about generalities and reflect the audience view - because they tend to be followed when they suggest someone should go and someone else must stay. DOI's experience is that at times the vote ignores Robin as much as it did Karen and Nicky, and it actively goes against anyone making negative comments. Katerina isn't as popular, or well known, as Emma and she may not be listened to - worse, if she says it as it is, she could add to the anti-judge vote rather than defuse it as Emma did. Time will tell - but its big risk.

I never have said that Louie is any more qualified to judge the skating elements of the performances than Jason was - but what both of them are/were there to do is add a bit of flamboyance to the potentailly boring comments from the skaters, as well as concentrating on the performance rather than the technicalities. Yes he can be acidic and bitchy as all get out - but he has what Jason lacks - a good sense of humour - and doesn't seem to take himself seriously. I don't know about Katerina -YET - but from her appearance on Battle of the Blades, she has a head start on Natalia as her English is very fluent..... Natalia was fine when being interviewed on the ITT equivalent show and she had more time to think - but struggled to deliver rapid fire comments after the performances, Katerina doesn't have that problem!

PS lets face it - the only person on the old X Factor panel who could actually sing was Dannii LOL!!

Jasons problem was that he realised that his comments gave him column inches in the newspapers and on sites like this - all building up an image and a reputation that he seems to value above being genuinely liked. Unlike CRH on strctly (who HAS tempered his acidic comments on strictly a lot since the early days) Jason didn't seem do make any effort to be likeable behind the scenes.

Craig, apparently once away from the judges desk is funny and generally likeable - as well as being a great singer as well as a dancer and actor (just been to see him and Widdy in panto this week), he has a very successful career in choreography and stage production - Jason seems to be trying to do the same - but without the friendliness and basic talent.

I won't miss him on DoI. When I see him on This Morning he comes across fine but Jason was charmless on the show. He threw out crude similes which offered no informed critique or advice for improvement. Rarely was it "you should hold your arms like this" but instead "your arms look ridiculous".

I can't stand Louie Spence either. What I really miss is Nicky and his bouts of madness.