I think Alesha would love to be an XF judge but has accepted BGT as a step towards it. Also she can promote her music more on either show. The money would be a big incentive as well which is understandable but, as Christine Bleakley has shown, accepting tempting offers is not always the best move for a long term career

She may have left it a bit late to jump on the Simon Cowell bandwagon though as, I agree, BGT is on its way out.

Nicole Scherzinger has hinted that she may leave X-Factor USA and maybe Alesha's hoping to step into her spot as it's a bigger show and market.

What's the point in starting 3 threads on the same theory? When you go into detail about something I've said without having the courtesy to alert me to you doing so so that I can respond, then I personally do have a bit of a problem. It's only polite to let me know that you're going to take what I've said and discuss it elsewhere!



1) overmarking of Harry = your opinion, please don't state it as fact.
2) Alesha's decision to leave is arguably not bizarre at all, it's easily explicable, but there are several other threads on this issue, so I won't go into that here.



Harry is not a professional dancer, he was never going to be professional standard. Jason was similarly lacking, and Chelsee would look horribly out of place alongside the female pros as well. This applies equally to all the celebrities, so I fail to see how it advances your theory.



Really? Is it not equally conceivable that there were timing issues, with dancers talking for too long after another performance, or judges giving a longer than expected critique, which necessitated cutting the comments? Someone could easily have told Bruce through his earpiece to keep the judges' bit short for timing issues, meaning allow 2 or 3 comments, but he interpreted it literally and cut them off after one comment. Unless you have concrete evidence, which you don't, then it is impossible to claim that there is 'very little doubt' - standard rules of evidence.




Well, I believe you to be incorrect in your analysis that the judges would have had to lie about Harry's Charleston, and would claim that you're muddying the waters to create an issue where none exists, but that's just my opinion, nothing else. If I am conveying an impression only, then you are doing exactly the same. Nothing you have said makes your argument any more weighted than mine.


Look through some of the threads from show night, there were many, many comments about Chelsee seeming nervous. I'm not the only one who had that impression.


How does being a professional actor negate one from being human exactly? As I've pointed out before, she was out of her comfort zone, so it's only natural that she would be nervous! Whether she can control them in a situation like the Strictly final has nothing to do with whether she's an actress or not - she's doing something that she doesn't normally do, so that is bound to have an effect.



I didn't ever claim that there was praise of his head positioning, in fact I believe I pointed out (or meant to point out) that head position is something that would be more picked up on for women as it's much more obvious, and more crucial, as the head is positioned to the side and away and must be done with the correct neckline. It's much more simple for the man. Perhaps I was wrong about the armography, but just because Chelsee was praised for that and Harry wasn't doesn't automatically make her better overall! As you've stated yourself, Harry was praised for many things, just as Chelsee was. Again, nothing major to differentiate between them. The problem I have with your theory is that you're claiming Chelsee was so much better than Harry, when I see nothing to prove that she was. They were both very good, and I do not believe that there was a huge gulf between them. And that's entirely separate from the wild conspiracy that Harry was somehow helped to win the show by the BBC, which is entirely baseless.


Maybe I'm making a mistake by responding again, but as much as I think the OP is making something of nothing, at least it's being done in a manner which can be debated, which I enjoy

But to answer your question OP, although I'm sure you know my answer, I don't think there's anything in your theory that is in any way related to Alesha leaving. And even if she was close with Chelsee, Chelsee's not on the show anymore, and at the end of the day Strictly is just a job for Alesha and all the other judges.

Don't read more into the show than there is.
It's timed to within a few seconds. "What the judges have to say is of such importance" that if they are few seconds behind the schedule, they'll miss one out or two if necessary.

Judges opinions have little influence on the public vote, for most it's a popularity contest.

Yeah, and then maybe she'll be adopted as the Republican candidate for the Presidency...

I couldn't disagree with you more on your opinion.

The majority of McFly fans were probably going to vote for Harry even if he fell over in every dance. But for an uncommited observer I would suggest that the judges' analysis of the dance is the most entertaining section partly because we wait with bated breath to find out how good the dance actually was.

The judges to all intents and purposes tell us what we have just witnessed.

I would argue that their opinions have an immense influence upon the vote of anybody who isn't a confirmed fan of one of the celebrities - and that it is precisely that factor which makes it of such importance that we can trust the analysis they deliver.

Craig is wrong about the Charleston. It doesn't have to be "extreme" in the way he thinks.

The judges "carefully rehearsed spontaneous" comments often including classic examples of onomatopoeia and alliteration are just part of the show. The probably write 'em up whilst watching the rehearsal before the show, if they haven't got a pre-prepared list. It's just "show business."

Anyone who thinks they are of any real influence on the voting decisions of viewers is dreaming.

People like John Sergeant, Widdy and Russell, despite the opinions of the judges stayed in through the sheer bloodymindedness of the viewers, as they were good entertainment. No complaints from me there.

The viewers didn't care about the ability, because it's nearer a pantomime than a dance competition.

The judges are very inconsistent with their marking and each has demonstrated bias towards one contestant or another in every series.
This seems perfectly obvious to most, but there are exceptions.

You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't look for "converts"............... it ain't gonna happen.

Given that he awarded a 6 to Alex's Charleston but a 9 to Harry's Charleston it would certainly be of interest to hear from him how he defines "extreme".

There isn't one set definition of 'a Charleston', just as there isn't one set definition of an 'American Smooth' - it can be Viennese Waltz-based, Foxtrot-based or Quickstep-based.

Equally a Charleston can be high on slapstick, or more refined, but nonetheless a Charleston in steps and period feel.

The lack of 'attack' comment to Alex doesn't necessarily mean she had to go more slapstick or more flamboyant, just that he was expecting a bit more vigour in how she danced the steps in that particular routine to that particular music.

I admire the OP's industry in preparing a detailed case and taking the trouble to post all the relevant clips. Thanks for those. Can't say I am convinced about the theory, though. Not sure about the reference to dressing mutton as lamb. That phrase refers to something quite different which I don't think is applicable in this case.

Don't bother yourself Mystical.... this OP seems to just be posting for the sheer bloodymindedness of it.

OP you are going on my ignore list.

In retrospect I could have chosen my words more carefully. In my opinion Harry did extremely well in that competition. He may even have been a worthy winner if we measure the improvement of each celebrity in relation to the degree of improvement possible for that particular celebrity.

But the idea of the competition is surely to recognize which celebrity has achieved the highest level of expertise after their three-month journey.

A guy with a false leg could participate and do incredibly well considering he has a false leg - but is it fair for him to be adjudged the winner if there are better dancers than him by the end of the competition?

I was merely trying to highlight my theory that although Harry did incredibly well considering his limitations there was still a significant gap in expertise between him and Chelsee - and that the judges were extremely dishonest in concealing his weaknesses.

Yes Harry was over marked consistently, mainly by Alesha herself.

To be honest I think most of the contestants were overmarked at times including all finalists.

I just don't see the point in obsessing about things in the past now.

Also OP you constantly mention in your posts about people being blinded by Harry's weaknesses but you yourself seem blinded to Chelsee's weaknesses.

Yes, it is fair, because he would have been voted the winner by the public, just like every winner before him. The best dancer doesn't always win, that's the nature of the show whether you like it or not.

And unless you're going to judge on a purely technical, cold and objective level, the 'best' dancer is always going to have some amount of subjectivity, especially in a close series in terms of talent towards the end as the last 2 have been.

sorry but the most consistantly over marked contestant was Jason. Harry at least showed progress during the compition. He wasn't my favourite contestant or the most improved.

Gavin for the new judge Oh sorry is this the wrong thread I nodded off half way through the opening post to be honest.

The "idea of the programme" is to beat X-Factor in the ratings war.
It's a family entertainment show built around ballroom dancing.
The BBC did their best (as they do every year) through judicious use of clips, to keep in for the majority of weeks, those whose performances regardless of how poor they were, but were retaining viewers watching who weren't particularly interested in ballroom but liked a "show."

It is a fact that in previous series some who've been severely criticised by the judges stayed in because the public weren't having it.
I believe in this series the judges were told to ease up a bit as although the BBC wanted them in for the majority of the series, they didn't want people like Widdy or Grant making the final three, as it'd make a mockery of the programme.

The majority of viewers vote for their favourite and if they go out they'll choose another.

At the death, they had a choice of three. Jason did himself no favours every time he opened his mouth, so went first as he had less viewer support, despite what the judges said and his four tens.
Of the remaining two, Chelsee was a victim of nerves so didn't put in as good a performance in the final.

Now what's all that got to do with the judges?

Allow me to spell the point out for you. All that's in the past is the 2011 competition. There will be another competition this year. Either the judges are capable of participating in a cynical attempt to deceive us with regard to the weaknesses of a dancer or they are not.

As to Chelsee's weaknesses - I was hoping for a response from a professional dancer or trainer which detailed the weakness of both Chelsee and Harry, and pointed to specific examples in their performances which demonstrated said weaknesses.

Regretably I don't recall a single response along those lines which I consider to be of value.

I remember Camilla Dallerup posting on Twitter one week that if the judges were going to constantly comment on Alex's problems with footwork they should start mentioning Chelsee's.

I don't have time to search for it but I definitely read it and it was mentioned on here at the time I believe.

The best bit of all this was the suggestion of Alesha for Republican candidate - I'd almost consider paying to see that

That would be the same Camilla Dallerup who allegedly said Robbie should get 10's and be in the final with Harry and Jason
Clearly getting wrung out physically in the jungle has shrunk her brain

May I sugest everyone reads repsonse numbers 14 19 23 & 25 on the previous page before posting


and if this goes onto a third page would someone be good enough re quote this post as near the top as possible

I hope you all find this helpful

I never said that I agreed with Camilla. The poster asked if anybody with dance experience had mentioned any weaknesses in Chelsee's dancing. So I named one that came to mind.

I actually liked both Harry and Chelsee but I be the first to admit that neither were perfect. But the OP seems to think that its fact that Chelsee was in a league of her own. But its simply just their personal opinion.