Did the BBC pull the wool over our eyes? Is this why Alesha has walked out?

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apenny4them

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by Selena:
“I remember Camilla Dallerup posting on Twitter one week that if the judges were going to constantly comment on Alex's problems with footwork they should start mentioning Chelsee's.

I don't have time to search for it but I definitely read it and it was mentioned on here at the time I believe.”

I would think it obvious that Chelsee did not have perfect footwork at the start of the competition.

I was really hoping that the judges' choice of her dance for the final was going to be her foxtrot. It's the dance of choice for the professional dancers - and being quite slow, really highlights a dancer's expertise and weaknesses.

Chelsee's footwork by Week 6 when she performed her foxtrot was still not up to standard. At one point she was hopping because she lost her centre. But it's well worth noting that Craig awarded a 9 for that dance.

After Week 6 the only comments I can recall on Chelsee's footwork were in praise of it, with the single exception of when she caught her heel in that slide in her semi-final American Smooth. But Len nevertheless actually praised her for how smoothly she was moving in that dance.

I included a link to the video of her AS in my opening post. Look at the level of her technique when she is moving around the floor. In my opinion the only celebrity with footwork of that standard by the end of the competition was Harry.

But as for armography Harry was mediocre at best. His arms in his American Smooth in the final look better-suited to a Paso Doble.

Selena

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by apenny4them:
“I was really hoping that the judges' choice of her dance for the final was going to be her foxtrot. It's the dance of choice for the professional dancers - and being quite slow, really highlights a dancer's expertise and weaknesses.”

I agree that the Foxtrot would have been a better choice for Chelsee in the final I would have preferred to have seen that over the Quickstep I think.

Also ignore my last post before this i'm not in a great mood this afternoon and maybe was a bit too harsh.

leftfeet2

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by SaraV1308:
“I was going to say.... that the conspiracy would have had Blulu winning for it to be Terry or *cough* Tom.

This is a different one... but like leftfeet said - 'very similar driving style'.”

i should be working really but so many people might not be seeing what others can see on this thread

please read response numbers14 19 23 & 25

look at the length of the title .................

it might save some peoples blood preasure going up

oulandy

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by apenny4them:
“In retrospect I could have chosen my words more carefully. In my opinion Harry did extremely well in that competition. He may even have been a worthy winner if we measure the improvement of each celebrity in relation to the degree of improvement possible for that particular celebrity.

But the idea of the competition is surely to recognize which celebrity has achieved the highest level of expertise after their three-month journey.

A guy with a false leg could participate and do incredibly well considering he has a false leg - but is it fair for him to be adjudged the winner if there are better dancers than him by the end of the competition?

I was merely trying to highlight my theory that although Harry did incredibly well considering his limitations there was still a significant gap in expertise between him and Chelsee - and that the judges were extremely dishonest in concealing his weaknesses.”

I don't think fairness has a great deal to do with it, though. In the end, it comes down to the public vote and it doesn't necessarily mean that the best dancer wins, even if we could all agree who is the best dancer.

oulandy

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by leftfeet2:
“May I sugest everyone reads repsonse numbers 14 19 23 & 25 on the previous page before posting

and if this goes onto a third page would someone be good enough re quote this post as near the top as possible

I hope you all find this helpful”

It's not helpful suggesting that people read something, without explaining why they should.

Jim Kowalski

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by leftfeet2:
“
..... numbers14 19 23 & 25
”

Do you want extra rice with that?

apenny4them

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by oulandy:
“I don't think fairness has a great deal to do with it, though. In the end, it comes down to the public vote and it doesn't necessarily mean that the best dancer wins, even if we could all agree who is the best dancer.”

Agreed. But if they are going to stage a competition with the title Strictly Come Dancing - rather than Strictly Come Most Popular Celebrity - surely the judges should deliver their analysis of the performances in such a manner that the Public is in the optimum position to decide which of the celebrities is indeed the best dancer by the end of the competition?

If the Public's choice of the eventual winner is based upon a different metric than dancing expertise then so be it - it comes with the territory.

leftfeet2

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by Jim Kowalski:
“Do you want extra rice with that? ”

Excellent editing once again made me smile

I am amazed some people cant see it

I am hoping you cant edit that

penelopesimpson

04-01-2012

Jim Kowalski. Fab humour. LOL. I'll take a side order of seaweed

Doghouse Riley

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by apenny4them:
“Agreed. But if they are going to stage a competition with the title Strictly Come Dancing - rather than Strictly Come Most Popular Celebrity - surely the judges should deliver their analysis of the performances in such a manner that the Public is in the optimum position to decide which of the celebrities is indeed the best dancer by the end of the competition?

If the Public's choice of the eventual winner is based upon a different metric than dancing expertise then so be it - it comes with the territory.”

You really think the judges can tell the public what they should do and they'll take notice?

Have you actually been watching this programme?

It's just a Saturday night entertainment show for the whole family, with elements of pantomime which increase every year.

Perhaps you'd be better off watching old YouTube clips of "Come Dancing." That died because viewers didn't like the format. SCD is successful because viewers can vote for who they like, rather than "who they should."
Mess with that and it'll go the way of "Come Dancing."

leftfeet2

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson:
“Jim Kowalski. Fab humour. LOL. I'll take a side order of seaweed”

Terry will have chips and cats eyes I expect

Doghouse Riley

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by leftfeet2:
“Terry will have chips and cats eyes I expect”

This topic is draggin' on and "I only came out for a sliced loaf."

leftfeet2

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“This topic is draggin' on and "I only came out for a sliced loaf."”

marmite with that sir

ewoodie

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by barcajaden:
“Why would she though, especially after Dannii, Cheryl and Kelly Brook were treated?

If it's for her music career, is she that rubbish a singer that she needs Cowell to get her hits?

Simon Cowell is so yesterday these days and SCD is on it's way up. I really struggle too see why she switched to BGT, which i a joke these days and just something you watch, because nothing else is on”

I don't disagree with anything you said.

BGT is absolute rubbish. But Alesha is geting more money to appear and it suits her personality more. It's sad she's becoming so trashy. But maybe this is good enough for her and she thinks Cowell and ITV will give her more opportunities than the SCD and the BBC ever could.

Her music career has been dreadful. I don't know if she could make a success of it in the UK now. I read somewhere she wants to try and crack the US. Maybe the Americans will appreciate her more. I think the GBP and the media turned against her after she became a judge on SCD. You can hardly find a good word for her on forums and in the press.

Doghouse Riley

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by leftfeet2:
“marmite with that sir”

Only if I can have soldiers.

barcajaden

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by ewoodie:
“I don't disagree with anything you said.

BGT is absolute rubbish. But Alesha is geting more money to appear and it suits her personality more. It's sad she's becoming so trashy. But maybe this is good enough for her and she thinks Cowell and ITV will give her more opportunities than the SCD and the BBC ever could.

Her music career has been dreadful. I don't know if she could make a success of it in the UK now. I read somewhere she wants to try and crack the US. Maybe the Americans will appreciate her more. I think the GBP and the media turned against her after she became a judge on SCD. You can hardly find a good word for her on forums and in the press.”

I am sorry but if she thinks that then she is very silly.

How can you be a ''flop'' singer in the UK, but then be a huge success in the US. I mean even Leona is known as a one hit wonder over there and she is a brilliant singer.
Their own singers like Ciara, Toni Braxton and even Christina Ag are on the decline so what hope has Alesha got?
The only singer i can think of who has done well recently from the UK is Adele and she is super talented.

penelopesimpson

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by barcajaden:
“I am sorry but if she thinks that then she is very silly.

How can you be a ''flop'' singer in the UK, but then be a huge success in the US. I mean even Leona is known as a one hit wonder over there and she is a brilliant singer.
Their own singers like Ciara, Toni Braxton and even Christina Ag are on the decline so what hope has Alesha got?
The only singer i can think of who has done well recently from the UK is Adele and she is super talented.”

Exactly. She is very silly.

leftfeet2

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“Only if I can have soldiers.”

I gather there will soon be quite a number surplus to requirements
Sailors & airmen too !!
But that’s one for another forum - in so many different ways - I think

Do you like your soldiers buttered?

samiskim

04-01-2012

Originally Posted by Moany Liza:
“Pardon? ”

Sorry Moany Liza - I was agreeing with you and my post was directed at the other OP but I should have worded it better. Please accept my apologies.

ewoodie

05-01-2012

Quote:
“For Alesha, the appeal was obvious: she was to receive more than treble her £100,000 pay as a Strictly judge and she had Cowell’s assurance there would be no problem about her promoting her music career while being a judge on the show.

For in addition to joining ITV, she is hoping to bring out an album in 2012 and remains hopeful about getting a record deal in the U.S. — putting behind her the embarrassment of her last single reaching an abysmal 78 in the charts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...#ixzz1iXOKVOQ0”

The girl's got ambition. Got to give her credit for that.

frally

05-01-2012

There are British R&B acts like Estelle, Taio Cruz and Jay Sean who have made it big in the US. It's not impossible for Alesha to do the same if she collaborates with the right people.

barcajaden

05-01-2012

Originally Posted by frally:
“There are British R&B acts like Estelle, Taio Cruz and Jay Sean who have made it big in the US. It's not impossible for Alesha to do the same if she collaborates with the right people.”

Estelle is a one hit wonder as well as Taio Cruz (2 htis) in the US and Jay Sean has only done well when Lil Wayne is involved as he is huge in the US.

Also at 33, isn't it a bit too late?

Miriam_R

05-01-2012

She probably went for the money and a new challenge. I think it's as simple as that. Alesha has danced on Strictly then judged on it, so if she was dis-pleased about aspects of it she still remained apart of it (up till now) regardless of knowing what it was all about.

I think Cowell, and being asked to work for (with) him is probaly flattering for some folk still, so, no suprise she went when the offer came in. Cowell also has links to America so I would reckon any Brit working on his show in the UK may also see what else he can do for them if he ends up pleased with what they do.

jazzyjake

05-01-2012

Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“She probably went for the money and a new challenge. I think it's as simple as that. Alesha has danced on Strictly then judged on it, so if she was dis-pleased about aspects of it she still remained apart of it (up till now) regardless of knowing what it was all about.

I think Cowell, and being asked to work for (with) him is probaly flattering for some folk still, so, no suprise she went when the offer came in. Cowell also has links to America so I would reckon any Brit working on his show in the UK may also see what else he can do for them if he ends up pleased with what they do.”

But how many people does Cowell help to break the US. Do you think he is going to make Alesha a star in the US? What happened to Cheryl Cole's US deam? Also Nicole Sherzinger (SP) hasn't exactly excelled on US version and if anything she has become even more disliked.

No offense or ageism attended but she is what 33 now? Isn't it a bit too late when your last music attempts flopped?

SCDchick

05-01-2012

Originally Posted by apenny4them:
“I hope it's not a problem if I start a fresh thread on this topic. Having absorbed the feedback from my original post I wanted both to summarise, and to make readily-available links to the relevant videos (see below). For ease of reference here is a link to my original post -

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1608092

I'm a tad surprised that a number of users of this forum have opined that this topic is unworthy of discussion. For those here who are wondering about Alesha's departure - is it not feasible that, if I have this right, she left because she wanted no further involvement in such blatant dishonesty? Alesha does seem to be on very good terms with Chelsee, and could hardly fail to have been upset by the cynical manner in which Chelsee was handicapped during the final - both in the selection of her first dance and in the overmarking of Harry. That would certainly explain for me her apparently bizarre decision to desert SCD for one of Cowell's programs.

It does seem a safe assumption though that she knew beforehand that the offer was there.

The 2011 program is history. Harry was the celebrity who attracted the highest public vote. But SCD will continue - and if it's true that we can't trust the judges to offer objective criticism of the performances of the celebrities then in my opinion people have a right to know.

There seems little doubt that the judges and the program directors abused our trust here, in participating in an elaborate charade to dress mutton up as lamb. Why they would do that is anybody's guess. It may simply have been a case of validating the format, ensuring that the public crowned the celebrity who APPEARED to be the best dancer.

There seems little doubt that the public swallowed it hook, line and sinker. When Harry was crowned it appeared that he was a worthy winner. But if we put aside what we actually heard from the judges, and take an objective look at Harry's expertise at the end of the competition in comparison to that of Chelsee there seems little doubt as to the extent to which we were conned in this instance. And arguably the biggest victim was Harry himself, who I believe to have been completely unaware of what was going on.

One has only to look at Harry's personality to realise that he has as much potential as an all-round dancer as has a dwarf as a basketball player. There are far too many dances where an essential element for a high-quality performance is the characterisation unique to the particular dance. Harry's personality is such that he does not have the flair of natural performers like Jason and Chelsee for expressing emotion. Compare Jason's delivery of his AT and his Charleston to Harry's delivery of those two dances. Harry looks wooden by comparison - he simply does not have that weapon in his armoury.

And Harry's deficiencies as a dancer are not limited to his Latin dances. He also has a major flaw in his Ballroom technique which was very cleverly concealed from us. He never mastered the art of armography, using every part of his arm from shoulder to fingertip to create the beautiful lines and shapes which are an essential element for a high-quality performance in many of the Ballroom dances.

It's well worth noting that in the two dances where he did appear to be an outstanding dancer - his Quickstep and his Viennese Waltz - the flaw in his technique was hidden by virtue of the fact that his hands were firmly attached to Aliona throughout. To see what Harry was lacking there, take a look at any one of the male professional dancers in action.

I've included below links to the videos of the relevant dances. Look at Harry's hands in his American Smooth. It's not so much what he does with them, it's what he DOESN'T do with them - use the whole of his arms to create nice lines and shapes.

I've included comments from the judges which highlight specific skills acquired by Chelsee during the course of the competition. When one considers that there were over 60 individual reviews of Harry's performances it's surely worth noting that the only reference to his armography was Len's criticism of the way he used his hands both in his Waltz in Week 4 and in his Rumba in Week 10.

Armography is an essential element of a dancer's technique. Why did Len - having pulled Harry up twice on it, and having then listened to Craig pointing out in the final that Harry was still woefully deficient in that area - award a 10 to that American Smooth?

As for the Charleston - when Alex delivered a Charleston which included all of the right moves Craig awarded a 6, explaining that she didn't appear to have understood that the very essence of the dance is exaggeration to the extreme. Without that dominating theme a Charleston is as fundamentally flawed as would be a Paso Doble which doesn't hint at a confrontation between matador and bull. Jason's excellent Charleston earned him four 9s. I defy anybody to argue that Harry's delivery came anywhere close. What marks could the judges realistically have awarded to that performance had Craig proceeded to take it apart as he did Alex's?

There can be very little doubt that it was decided in advance to skip the judges' analysis of that Charleston. One imagines that they were alerted to a potential problem (directly or indirectly) by the dress rehearsal.

The judges would surely have called the couple back had it not been agreed that Len would wave them through, and the couple themselves didn't seem surprised in hearing only from Len. When they joined Tess she also acted as though nothing untoward had happened. It was the first dance of ten in that program, so it seems extremely unlikely that they were running late. Ten comparatively-meaningless interviews with Tess were to follow, from which a minute could surely have been found to hear the actual analysis of the four judges.

Surely the analysis itself is by far the most entertaining part? Waiting to hear what the judges are going to say? Watching the reactions of the celebrities? I don't ever recall such an omission in the history of SCD.

Sometimes, when there is a conspiracy theory it is because there WAS a conspiracy. I'm certain that the analysis part was skipped because it would have made it difficult for the judges to award 10s unless they lied about what they had seen.

One can only imagine what Alex and Jason were thinking, given that they must surely have been comparing Harry's performance and marks to their own.

A number of contributors to this forum appear to be anxious to muddy the waters on this issue. One individual in particular (Mystical123) went to considerable lengths to convey the impression that the gap in expertise between Chelsee and Harry is narrower than it appears, citing no less than seven alleged mistakes in Chelsee's Rumba. I believe this individual to be incorrect in each instance, and incorrect also in her claim that the judges were lying when they delivered their analysis of that Rumba.

I repeat my original observation that I saw no evidence of Chelsee under-performing on the night due to nerves. Nor should we expect to with people like Jason and Chelsee who have succeeded as professional actors, though to be fair it seemed to me that there was a hint of tension in her semi-final American Smooth.

This same individual alleged that the judges had singled out for praise throughout the series specific skills in Harry's performances to the same extent as they did with Chelsee. She quoted Harry's Rumba as an example. Having reviewed the judges' analysis of Harry's Rumba I believe this individual to be incorrect in that claim also. The only praise I can remember of Harry which focussed upon specific areas of expertise related to timing, musical phrasing, posture and footwork. There may be others I've failed to recall, but with regard to head positioning and use of his arms I could find only criticism.

The picture the judges managed so successfully to paint of Harry as an accomplished dancer is surely testament to their resourcefulness in creating the impression that his performances were top-drawer without actually lying about them.

I'd be interested to hear from others on whether or not they think it LIKELY that the missing analysis of Harry's Charleston was indicative of an elaborate charade, with the agenda of creating the impression that Harry is a far better dancer than he actually is.

I hope that those who disagree will have the courtesy to share their thoughts with us on precisely why the judges declined to offer their analysis of Harry's performance.

Links to the relevant videos -

1. Chelsee:

a) The Perfect Paso -

Craig - "You are the most incredible dancer - honestly! It's GOBSMACKINGLY good".
Alesha - "You are performing like a true dancer".
Bruno - "Your artistry is superb".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceIkin9QaVk

b) The Ravishing Rumba -

Craig - "You pulled that out of the bag darling - I thought it was absolutely magnificent".
Len - "Because it's so slow everything is magnified, every detail. And I watched that and there was nothing I could see I didn't like"
Bruno - "You NAILED that Rumba - expressive, fluid, musical ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9axumOcKjU

c) The American Not So Smooth -

Craig - "Your arms are absolutely exquisite ..... Because you DO have short arm and legs, and you create beautiful long lines with them."
Bruno - "Your upper body fluidity is extraordinary. The way you phrase the music - you have an instinct to go from fast to slow, sustain the movement in a way that - you know - dancers, I mean it takes us years and years to master ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-St3CIiJ8I

2. Harry:

a) The Lukewarm Argentine Tango -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8EMFC_qg7o

b) The Half-hearted Charleston -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X21Ug5YVWs

c) The Hands of the Ripper American Smooth -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba2Z5Faozqw

3. Jason, demonstrating the performance element the judges were hoping to see from Harry in those two Latin dances:

a) The Heat and Passion Argentine Tango -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxxokZ9oUT0

b) The Manic Charleston -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAP3I_7CQfU”

So basically what you are trying to say is Harry was overmarked and won because of another reason other than his dancing technique

Well everyone is entitled to their opinions, i guess

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