When Saturday Night Takeaway returns next year, do we think it'll take the 8pm slot in Q1? It could be paired with Take Me Out, which would guarantee ITV1 5 - 6m + for the night, which would be much better than how they're doing now.

Well, no need to worry about the "new" series on BBC2 because it was a repeat from BBC4, and clearly very niche. That's a decent start for Room 101, and it was entertaining enough, they could do with more returnable formats.

Friday always used to be a big night for drama on both BBC1 and ITV, they used to run loads of new shows there, and of course Casualty was there for a couple of years at the end of the eighties. ITV would be well served keeping drama in that slot because they're never going to appeal to a young audience on Fridays.


Indeed, and I've probably said before but they gave Lucas and Walliams, Ricky Gervais and Simon Amstell their first breaks, only to not find a thing for them to do and they all went and got famous on the BBC instead - and it wasn't as if they were poached, either, the Beeb gave them the space and support to do what they wanted. And yet they continue to indulge Peter Kay, which seems completely contrary to everything they evr say about encouraging new talents and formats. And they should be creating more innovative entertainment formats than chat shows and panel games.


You could argue you'd watch the show with the ad breaks so you could go to the toilet or get a cup of tea during them, then watch the programme with no adverts via a recording so you could pause it?


The North East are massive ITV viewers, which probably explains the ITV soaps' success, it's one of the few regions where the local ITV news continues to beat the Beeb equivalent. As for the East of England and Emmerdale, I know Anglia was the last region to show Emmerdale in primetime so maybe it has a smaller fanbase. I know that was twenty years ago but I'd imagine a lot of Emmerdale's audience have watched it for years and years, my mum's been watching it since the seventies.


Well predicted there. The Talent Show Story last night must have featured more monochrome than any primetime ITV programme for about thirty years. It's entertaining enough but far too flimsy for primetime Saturday night. I dunno why they shifted everything forward last night either so nothing matched any junction on BBC1. Then next week it all moves back, which doesn't make any sense either because they've got the FA Cup highlights later rather than a load of repeats.


I hate those clips, if anything killed Fame Academy it was that and Kielty was and still is an absolute moron. That kind of thing is just unpleasant and it completely undermined the show, because if the host is just going to poo-poo the judges' views, what's the point in them being there? It just cheapens the whole thing and makes people wonder why they have them as a judge in the first place if nobody wants to listen to them. I mean, everyone makes fun of Simon Cowell but respect is a two-way street and it is appreciated that Cowell actually knows what he's doing and his opinions have value. But Ant and Dec and Dermot's comments are made with good humour and Cowell is happy to send himself up, whereas Kielty's comments were idiotic and Park took them too seriously.


You've Been Framed, Dragon's Den and the Generation Game aren't "copies", they were licenced formats, paid for and credited accordingly. DoI is different because although it's obviously derivative of Strictly, a show where celebrities do something and get judged could apply to any number of formats.


Yeah, they did Strictly Ice Dancing at Christmas 2004 but I assume the Beeb considered it was the kind of thing that only worked as a one-off, and certainly there wouldn't be much point in running both series on BBC1.

Just to be clear I don't think its success elsewhere means that it'll be a sure fire hit for BBC1 but the benefit of having several versions from multiple different countries is that it highlights that the format works and doesn't produce a dull, worthy and niche show.


I'm not sure I agree with this assumption that the only possible audience for a show like this is 'The X Factor audience' and that said audience will only accept The X Factor. We'll find out soon enough I suppose but I do think there's a market for a show that isn't The X Factor.


There's basically nothing that comes close to an original format on television in this day and age. Everything can be traced back to an earlier show if you look hard enough.

The other thing that's always baffled me about Ross is the order of the guests which is often completely illogical. Last night I note Noel Fielding was last on, which is ludicrous because no viewer, and especially no ITV Saturday night viewer, is watching for him, so they'd just switch off before the end. And that's on a show also featuring Daniel Radcliffe and David Attenborough. The big names go last, surely?

MOTD2 (which features 4 of the top 5 teams playing each other) should get a great audience tonight, and I won't spoil anymore than that.

This irritates me. Every single year Strictly only gets one entry in the charts because they don't give their results show a different name. Is it the BBC that supply the name to BARB how does it work?

On the subject of regional viewing patterns, UTV and the North-east are the only ones where the ITV local news beats the BBC version.Broadly speaking, Coronation Street has always done better in the north of the UK and EE in the south; overall the BBC seems to do better in London and the south-east (perhaps because it is allegedly London-centric and viewers there identify more closely with it ?)Perhaps the BBC will strengthen its position in the north now it is becoming Manchester-centric.

Because it's cheap, repeatable and actually rates quite respectably. Harry Hill kind of saved it too and even if he quit in the near future they could easily churn out repeats and keep it on air for a couple of years before considering it's future.

And who else qualifies for the top 10 if BGT and TXF are given only one entry each?

I think there is a difference between one network seeing a success elsewhere and thinking "can we do something like this" and a blatant carbon copy rip off.

Aunties' Bloomers started with massive 19m audiences because of the sheer amount of unseen BBC outtakes that were never released to AOTN - it was almost as if for years folk had been crying out for the BBC version. (Interestingly, I noticed a few BBC clips on the new Xmas episodes of AOTN, with BBC1 having now ditched Bloomers and Outtake TV).

Fame Academy was an attempt to run a less trashy, more musical talent oriented version of the Pop Idol/Stars/Factor franchise, and that was fair enough - I think it worked too.

Caught in the Act was a blatant YBF rip-off but dressed up as a quiz format to get round the copycat allegations. Actually, it did have some funny clips IIRC and it was to the best of my knowledge all British, something YBF never was and still isn't.

DOI falls into the latter category too - Strictly on Ice, a shameless and much inferior, low-budget rip off.


This might surprise a few, but BARB has played everything by the book in fairness - they haven't augmented the ITV entries by including repeat showings elsewhere, they have listed the largest rated episodes for each programme name given to them by the broadcasters, and they have correctly noted that the Royal Wedding actually got 26m for the wedding itself across all 10 channels.

Yes, of course it's daft to include TXF and BGT two times each. And they should correct that. But it does clearly show that Strictly was well ahead of TXF in the Battle of Saturday Night.


Talking of rip offs and copycats...

It never aired as late as 8pm when Noel presented it.


Yes, it's funny how Friday was such a big rated slot for drama, at least on ITV. Things like Auf Wiedersehen would get 15-16m there in the mid 80s, sometimes winning the whole week.

I can only remember BBC1 having comparable success with Casualty, briefly, before it returned to Saturdays. Things like Love Hurts, Dangerfield and also 999 (the dramatised documentary series with Michael Buerk) did well and won their slots there in the early 90s too, but it was generally slim pickings for the BBC - probably not helped by the 9 O Clock News, of course, which meant BBC1 rarely won the 9pm vs 9.30pm battle anyway.

As for Strictly Ice Dancing, it just wasn't a patch on the normal SCD, even in those early days, and only got c6m in a decent Boxing Day slot. I think they decided it would harm the SCD brand to squeeze a tenuous ice dancing contest out of it.

So they left it to ITV to do the cheap rip off...

I wouldn't say ITV commands such massive loyalty in the North like it used to, but I do find in West Cumbria, which is heavily C2DE, ITV1 programmes tend to have a bigger following than they would in somewhere like Surrey. Also the reason Tyne Tees news does better than Look North is the show is padded out with parish pump news and the presenters are no match for the old days of Mike Neville and Tom Kilgour.

I did say ''broadly speaking''.I think the loss of identity by most of the ITV companies (certainly in England) will benefit the BBC. I was surprised to see EE did so well in Ulster.

Tom Spilsbury just pointed out October 2nd was a Sunday so that X Factor entry is also a resuts show!

EDIT: No it wasn't it was a live show.

I think that's true in the NW as well, although I do notice that some of my extended family do still refer to local Granada figures as if they are members of the family. I suspect Fred Talbot (the local weatherman) has never dropped in on my nan for a cup of tea, but you'd think there were close friends they way she talks ("Eee, Fred were saying it'd be windy today and he weren't wrong..."), nor do I think she bumps into the characters off Corrie on a daily basis but to see how she reacts to Corrie storylines whenever I see her watching it, you'd think she was personally involved.

I have never heard her talk fondly of Gordon Burns (presenter of BBC NW Tonight), or take a close personal interest in the twists and turns on Holby...

Afternoon, Robbie, the opposite used to be true in the North East in the eighties when everyone knew Mike Neville on Look North but paused to name the presenters on Northern Life on Tyne Tees. However, when Mike went to Tyne Tees, his following went with him.
Re Corrie, I do find its biggest following is among older women in the North. I suppose a lot of it is habit as they grew up with it. Oddly enough my mother stopped watching when the serial killer appeared, saying it had become unpleasant and nasty./

2m at the centre of Saturday primetime in January on ITV1 is absolutely awful, Ch4 and Ch5 not far behind either. TMO is saving the schedule atm and is doing a very good job in maintaining a 4.5/5m audience in the middle of flops. Ross is suffering from a poor lead in and the 9pm slot. He needs to be on later-Sunday night after DOI would work better for him.

CBB didn't do too badly and I can see why they've delayed CSI:NY until it ends. Although a CBB/CSI combo would perform extremely well for them (and give ITV a run for its money), it probably works out better for Ch5 to have at least one hit show a week for as many Saturdays as they can-also NY may not fill as many Saturdays this season.

Are Channel 4 and Channel 5 more popular in certain areas? I know a lot of people who don't have Satellite or Cable still watch Channel 5, especially middle aged men who enjoy the truckers programmes and CSIs.

I think the other ITV1 ratings show how well Take Me Out is doing and no doubt will be recommissioned again. The Talent Story Show should be moved, but it won't be. The Magicians did poorly, but definitely not in crisis and its percentage share is still okay.

Just a note, ITV1 averaged 8.4% between 22:15 to 23:00 which suggests the Celebrity Juice repeat didn't do too well for them either.

It seems to have caught some of the older audience that would have watched ITV in the old days. My stepdad, who is 72, watches it more than any other channel. Also hiring in BB will have given it a younger base.
Channel 4 seems to be a weird channel. You have elderly skewing shows like Countdown and distinctly yoof offerings like Hollyoaks in the same schedule. However, it seems to offer little to anyone in between and its old left leaning middle class audience will have deserted it.

Snooker final overrunning horribly on BBC2 (6 frames in two and a half hours).
Should have been 8 frames this afternoon, and 11 tonight.

BBC1 used to pay Denis Norden for Auntie's Bloomers because it was his title. He originally took his idea for his outtake show to BBC1 but they turned it down so he went to LWT and the rest is history.

Caught In The Act seemed to suffer from BBC tight-fistedness over having to pay £250 for each clip. They limited the number of clips in the programme, padded it out with the quiz and the end result was the show was far too slow.

Of course, YBF used to have studio links with silly gimmicky bits. Harry Hill's method of just showing clips with him narrating out-of-view is a much better way of doing it.

I don't think Ant & Dec have ever been shy of admitting the influence of House Party of SNT. And then the BBC tried to rip-off SNT by signing Johnny Vaughan and Denise Van Outen to front Passport To Paradise in 2004. Fail.

Dancing On Ice is no more a rip off of Strictly Come Dancing than The Voice is of Popstars or Total Wipeout is of It's A Knockout or EastEnders is of Coronation Street. Indeed in the case of the latter, I'd say EastEnders is more of a rip off than Dancing On Ice is!

Back to last night...

A steady Saturday as always for BBC One; possibly it may be worth them considering switching The Magicians around with Winter Wipeout as the latter is the stronger show. Who Dares Wins performed excellently; even beating Casualty which did ok itself. Live At The Apollo looks pretty poor; especially considering how badly the other channels did in that slot.

Take Me Out is a very reliable performer for ITV1 and they really need to be pair it up with programming which can at least make the most of the steady start to the evening it provides. Jonathan Ross is looking very exposed and they may as well sacrifice The Talent Show Story is an early slot so You've Been Framed can lead in to Take Me Out which can at least give Jonathan Ross a boost.

The Million Pound Drop recorded a decent figure for Channel 4 and Transporter 2 didn't disgrace itself. The snooker held a reasonable share for BBC Two and Celebrity Big Brother at least kept itself above the 1.5m mark though it does make me wonder how the normal version will do on Saturday's...could they drop the Saturday highlights for a double bill on Sunday? Then again, if it's on around the same time as Britain's Got Talent/The Voice they may be able to schedule wisely and get a cross channel leg up.

In several of todays papers it has been reported that Simon Cowell is furious at the BBC's supposed launching of The Voice at the same time as BGT. He has declared war on the BBC and accused them of being pathetic and childish. He then goes on to say, almost as if contradicting himself, that he "poached" Alesha Dixon as a way of getting back at the corporation as they are becoming "cocky and smug".

Alesha denied this. She said she not once received a phone call from Cowell. It was through her agent that the job become available.

Now, the BBC have ALWAYS said that The Voice WOULD NOT clash with the X-Factor. It isn't clashing with the X-Factor. They have ALWAYS said it will air in the Spring. It IS airing in the Spring. The only vacant slot due to six nations rugby, Let's Dance etc. is the April-June slots.

It seems Cowell must be worried about The Voice. As are ITV who bid for the rights. I'd say the BBC are aware that The Voice won't get the figures BGT gets, but if it manages to dent the viewing figures for BGT and maintains a healthy 6 - 6.5 million viewers each week, then I reckon The Voice can be deemed a huge success. BGT audience figures, especially with the marmite David Walliams, and actually not particularly popular Alesha Dixon, may not exceed 10 million this year. Interesting times for Cowell indeed.

I never knew that about Auntie's Bloomers/Norden!

I still can't believe it took them until 1992 (?) to see the potential in a show that had been drawing 14-20m on ITV since 1978.


The producers of The Football League Show would do well to take note....

You're right though, the Beadle version was insanely annoying and padded out. The current cheaper version is far better.

The Talent Show Story only has 2 episodes left so there wouldn't be much point in moving it now. It rated absolutely terribly last night, and is having a knock on effect on The Jonathan Ross Show. Obviously JR's show wouldn't be doing brilliantly anyway but with a normal 4-5m lead-in he'd probably be getting 3-3.5m instead of 2.7m like last night. There's no denying that he isn't doing well though. I can see why they've signed him up for more episodes as he does well in the key demos, but as we've discussed before, he really should be on an hour later where c3m with good demos would be fine. I think when Family Fortunes returns and TV Burp returns with new episodes they should have TV Burp at 7:15pm, ASFF at 7:45pm, TMO at 8:45pm and TJRS at 10pm. TJRS is better suited to 10pm and TMO would be a more appropriate lead-in than ASFF. The main reason for going in that order though is that BBC1 will have Let's Dance at 7/7:15pm and Who Dares Wins/In It To Win It at c8:30pm. Therefore it makes most sense to avoid putting the very young skewing TMO against the young skewing Let's Dance, and instead put the show with larger appeal to older audiences (ASFF) against it, with TMO against the old skewing lottery quiz. Next year they'll have Saturday Night Takeaway back too which will help.

I wonder if they'll consider moving The Jonathan Ross Show to another slot. I wonder how he'd do on a Sunday at 10pm after DOI for instance (and indeed after Downton in the Autumn)? Might be worth trying if his ratings don't perk up much once TTSS ends.