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The Pro Cycling Thread |
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#2751 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: DOTS are evil!
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Quote:
Would the main sponsor of the team (United States Postal Service), be able to claim most of Lance's money, as they have over the years paid him a fortune (well in cyclying terms anyway)?
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#2752 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
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Quote:
Haven't the others charged, bar Lance, decided to continue fighting the charges?
Lance withdrew his appeal in the US courts to the USASA's evidence and gave up fighting so they could publish all the evidence they had to prosecute him with. Bruyneel and the doctors charged are fighting the allegations so I'm expecting them to either withdraw or for them to appear before the authorities. Lance, I believe, tactically withdrew so he could continue to deny, deny, deny because he had no chance of winning, but if you withdraw you can attempt to take the moral highground and still continue to claim its that evil USADA, they've got it in for me. It does seem odd that that, in effect, USADA's prosecution case against everyone is now made public following Armstrong's withdrawal, but before other cases such as Bruyneel's are heard. |
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#2753 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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dry your eyes... they knew the score when they got into it... it'd be like me entering a body building contest being all natural and complaining as they are all on drugs... things happen, it's the way the world spins.
That's not true, they all got into cycling through different routes. Some , like Bradley Wiggins, came to it through the Olympics. Some come from mountain biking, some come from time trialling. Some are just pure road racers. If you read the evidence from someone like Dave Zabriskie he got into cycling to get away from the horror of a family member's drug use. You honestly think they pull you aside at 17 and start doping you. They don't, it's by increment and you feel trapped by the time your eyes are open. |
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#2754 |
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Re bib. Yes. He was never ready to fight the actual drug taking charges. Up until his withdrawal he had been fighting the principle of the case, trying to argue that USADA didn't have the authority etc. As soon as his attempts to avoid the case had failed, he pulled out. I agree, it was his attempt to claim the moral high ground, and the only chance to continue denial. Previously, he had managed to stare down the US Justice system, who gave up trying to bring him to justice - no mean feat.
It does seem odd that that, in effect, USADA's prosecution case against everyone is now made public following Armstrong's withdrawal, but before other cases such as Bruyneel's are heard. Would you fight or would you admit it with the evidence you have. I think, all along, they're using whoever they can to get to Lance. If you can get Bruyneel to admit then you bring Armstrong down which is their target. |
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#2755 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I haven't read the USADA report - does anyone know if a lot of USPS/Discovery riders have named him specifically as being part of the drugs culture? I see that in his Wikipedia entry, it only mentions Floyd Landis accusing him.
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#2756 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
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Much of the silence re Bruyneel is due to there being a court case pending.
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#2757 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
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Quote:
They might do because the US Postal Service is a government department and not a private company, so US taxpayers paid for a team to cheat. It just depends on the will of the US people, I suppose, who don't seem to have half the problem with it that we do.
I am unsure, but something needs to be done, Lance cannot go on just swanning about, and spending cash that he got under false pretences, so basically cash that is not rightfully his. He needs to pay a huge fine, and pay back all of his earnings that he has earnt on the back of claiming to have won multiple tours, when he has never even won a single one. I might as well go around claiming that I have won multiple tours, and getting money as byproduct of that, as that is essentially what he has done. He has cheated the system, and he should pay big time for his crimes. |
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#2758 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
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So if for example The Royal Mail sponsored a team (as that would be the equvilant wouldn't it??), and this happened to them, would the Government go after the people involved?
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#2759 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
So if for example The Royal Mail sponsored a team (as that would be the equvilant wouldn't it??), and this happened to them, would the Government go after the people involved?
I am unsure, but something needs to be done, Lance cannot go on just swanning about, and spending cash that he got under false pretences, so basically cash that is not rightfully his. He needs to pay a huge fine, and pay back all of his earnings that he has earnt on the back of claiming to have won multiple tours, when he has never even won a single one. I might as well go around claiming that I have won multiple tours, and getting money as byproduct of that, as that is essentially what he has done. He has cheated the system, and he should pay big time for his crimes. ![]() He also seems to have lied on oath when a sponsor refused to pay him a bonus because there were questions about his last tour victory so he sued them and claimed on the stand that he had never doped. |
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#2760 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
Haven't the others charged, bar Lance, decided to continue fighting the charges?
Lance withdrew his appeal in the US courts to the USASA's evidence and gave up fighting so they could publish all the evidence they had to prosecute him with. Bruyneel and the doctors charged are fighting the allegations so I'm expecting them to either withdraw or for them to appear before the authorities. Lance, I believe, tactically withdrew so he could continue to deny, deny, deny because he had no chance of winning, but if you withdraw you can attempt to take the moral highground and still continue to claim its that evil USADA, they've got it in for me. He is a coward of huge proportions. |
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#2761 |
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He is a coward. I dont care if he survived cancer treatment.....after all he was given chemotherapy and underwent surgery...so all this poetic nonsense about fighting cancer is just that, nonsense. He was treated and survived.
He is a coward of huge proportions. I also didn't realise, until this started to unfold and I did a lot of reading, that his Livestrong foundation doesn't give any money for cancer research. The money goes towards "positive thinking" type projects. My hubby was more disillusioned than me, I think and threw his Livestrong bracelet in the bin in disgust. Just heard on FiveLive that Fabain Cancellara is considering leaving RadioShack because of the allegations against team manager Johann Bruyneel. |
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#2762 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Any honours he got in the US or from abroad becauae he was a successful bike rider should be given back to the people that gave them him, as he wasn't successful at all, as as far as I can see he hasn't even won a single tour, and the last American to win a Tour was Lamond wasn't it??
He should just be wiped out of cycling history, and never refered as a cyclist of any distinction ever again. |
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#2763 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,310
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It would seem that there are questions to be answered by the authorities too....
For clarity - I'm not an LA fanboy, or seeking to be an apologist for him. Like many, I'm disappointed that he's turned out to be an utter zero, and angry that I fell for it... I just think that there are more people behind this than just LA and whilst he gets all the scorn, they carry on scot free.... |
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#2764 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
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Quote:
I haven't read the USADA report - does anyone know if a lot of USPS/Discovery riders have named him specifically as being part of the drugs culture? I see that in his Wikipedia entry, it only mentions Floyd Landis accusing him.
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#2765 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,310
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Quote:
dry your eyes... they knew the score when they got into it... it'd be like me entering a body building contest being all natural and complaining as they are all on drugs... things happen, it's the way the world spins.
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#2766 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,216
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Oh *shrug* - nevermind then. Let's just ignore the USADA report and all its repercussions. And no you can't state that Armstrong was still the best rider - see my post of last night. Nobody knows how he would have fared up against a clean peloton. There are some riders who were actively pushed out of pro cycling or didn't get to the top pro stage due to their unwillingness to dope.
cant beleive some people still say...he would have won anyway....or that he was still the best amongst all doped runners... These same people usually counter any valid argument with...you know nothing about cycling. Guess what they knew nothing about cycling or what was going on either. |
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#2767 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Five live have just announced that Christian Prudhomme, tour director of TdF has said that they will not replace Lance Armstrong if his tour titles are stripped by UCI.
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#2768 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,216
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The IOC have announced that they will re consider his bronze medal at the Sydney games.
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#2769 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Five live have just announced that Christian Prudhomme, tour director of TdF has said that they will not replace Lance Armstrong if his tour titles are stripped by UCI.
He cannot keep them, he has won the same number as I have as far as I am concerened. |
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#2770 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Why the "if", shouldn't that be "when"??
He cannot keep them, he has won the same number as I have as far as I am concerened.
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#2771 |
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But until riders like Contador and Vinokourov have to prove they're clean rather than assuming they're clean, nothing has changed.
Hopefully, this will mean that cycling will change from the roots up and that the UCI should be totally disbanded and reformed. I also think journalists need to take a look at themselves, it's their job to expose cheating, not help cover up because you're scared of the rider. We, the public, were fooled by everyone.
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#2772 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
Why the "if", shouldn't that be "when"??
He cannot keep them, he has won the same number as I have as far as I am concerened. I don't know. They may have said "when" not "if", but I'm sure they said if. Maybe they're trying to stick a rocket up UCI's backside?
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#2773 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
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Also interesting to see that Nike are staying with LA for now - as someone else said. I guess if the fall out starts to affect sales they'd have a rethink.
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#2774 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Wales
Posts: 5,693
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Bruyneel sacked by RSNT according to Twitter.
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#2775 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
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Quote:
Bruyneel sacked by RSNT according to Twitter.
He too should pay a fine for helping to cheat the system. |
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Lance withdrew his appeal in the US courts to the USASA's evidence and gave up fighting so they could publish all the evidence they had to prosecute him with. 
