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The Pro Cycling Thread
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Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Cissy Fairfax:
“It'll be different to this years, I'd reckon probably 5 mountain top finishes and maybe some tougher stages. I haven't checked this out, but I suspect Wiggins overall race time will probably be a few hours less than most winners.

Stages two & three next year are already confirmed as medium mountain stages (although Sagan won both of those this year) which should make it interesting.

The time-trials are all but confimed already, No prologue (I prefer a normal stages start but would've preferred the flat stage 2nd than 1st.

The team time trial is stage four and you'd assume the other time trial the Friday or Saturday of week three.”

Not really surprising when you consider that this tour was almost certainly clean (Schleck notwithstanding).

Wiggins won, not because he was doping but because others weren't. You just have to look how many GC contenders 'underperformed' this year.

Wiggins has just won a historic victory & people can't help sniping.

Only in Britain
Mark F
22-07-2012
Been a few comments about him not being British just because he was born elsewhere...

Same with Mo Farah and some of the cricketers.

All successful ofcourse..maybe some just don't like it?
aggs
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“Watch the tour of Spain starting in 4 weeks time..........the first stage is a team time trial in the historic city of Pamplona where they have the bull running !...........hopefully not on the same day though.............”

I will be I love the Vuelta ... like the Tour used to be before it became The Tour
aggs
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“Not really surprising when you consider that this tour was almost certainly clean (Schleck notwithstanding).

Wiggins won, not because he was doping but because others weren't. You just have to look how many GC contenders 'underperformed' this year.

Wiggins has just won a historic victory & people can't help sniping.

Only in Britain ”

Yes - like Stephen Roche muttering about less mountain top finishes - yes, Stephen The Tour organisers have had to do that for a reason!
doffer
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“Watch the tour of Spain starting in 4 weeks time..........the first stage is a team time trial in the historic city of Pamplona where they have the bull running !...........hopefully not on the same day though.............”

Be interesting if it was
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“Yes - like Stephen Roche muttering about less mountain top finishes - yes, Stephen The Tour organisers have had to do that for a reason!”

Yes, well, things were...um.....'different' back in his day.
Cissy Fairfax
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“Not really surprising when you consider that this tour was almost certainly clean (Schleck notwithstanding).

Wiggins won, not because he was doping but because others weren't. You just have to look how many GC contenders 'underperformed' this year.

Wiggins has just won a historic victory & people can't help sniping.

Only in Britain ”

How the hell is that "sniping at Wiggins"? It's a comment on the course and the time - and what on earth has doping to do with the hours the race has taken.

I can only assume you've responded to the wrong post?

87 hours for the top 20 seems low when it's often in excess of 90 hours and I know last year was similar too and only 3 mountain top finishes probably contributed to that.

It's clear they're mixing it up, prologues, TTTs in alternate years, Had there been 4 or 5 MTFs I fancy WIggins & Froome would've been even further in front.
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Cissy Fairfax:
“How the hell is that "sniping at Wiggins"? It's a comment on the course and the time - and what on earth has doping to do with the hours the race has taken.

I can only assume you've responded to the wrong post?

87 hours for the top 20 seems low when it's often in excess of 90 hours and I know last year was similar too and only 3 mountain top finishes probably contributed to that.

It's clear they're mixing it up, prologues, TTTs in alternate years, Had there been 4 or 5 MTFs I fancy WIggins & Froome would've been even further in front.”

You know what, I've just realised I misread your post.
Sorry
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by peter3hg:
“Wiggins is a more natural "super-domestique" to my eyes anyway. He can ride at a very high-tempo and shed a lot of contenders, but Froome has that explosive kick to pull away from the likes of Nibali.
I suspect which one is the chief contender will come down to the route next year. If it has the more usual 3 or 4 HC finishes then Froome is the better choice, especially if there is less TT or even only one ITT with a TTT thrown in. With it being the 100th anniversary you would expect they have to be looking to go over as many of the famous mountain passes as possible.”

You could say the same about Mig & Armstrong.


But that would be just as silly.

Froome is a climber, who has a good TT in him.

Wiggins (and Mig & Armstrong) is a Time Trialer who can also climb.

Obviously, a specialist climber is likely to be better at going uphill than someone who isn't.
Cissy Fairfax
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“Yes - like Stephen Roche muttering about less mountain top finishes - yes, Stephen The Tour organisers have had to do that for a reason!”

I enjoy the stages where there's 10-15km from the final mountain top. Riders who usually wouldn't have a hope of holding off the serious GC guys, probably only need 30 seconds to hold on during the downhill. You don't need any more than 2 mtf in either mountains and maybe a smaller one in the first week to sort out the GC.
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Cissy Fairfax:
“I enjoy the stages where there's 10-15km from the final mountain top. Riders who usually wouldn't have a hope of holding off the serious GC guys, probably only need 30 seconds to hold on during the downhill. You don't need any more than 2 mtf in either mountains and maybe a smaller one in the first week to sort out the GC.”

I agree with this. If they all had MTFs then it would also disadvantage the good descenders. A three week tour really needs to cater to all specialities. There aren't many more thrilling sights in cycling than the likes of Nibali in full flow on a technical descent., imo.

I do feel that a couple of the so called climbing stages this year had run ins that were far too long & flat.
Cissy Fairfax
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“You know what, I've just realised I misread your post.
Sorry ”

Fair enough, I've re-read it and could've worded it better. For the record I've argued what you have on the CN forum where I'm "in denial" apparently.

It was probably the greatest individual domestic sporting performance I've ever seen - on a professional level. Redgrave cumulatively maybe better but not as a one off.

Today was the highlight of it, you wouldn't have seen Lance leading the at the flame rouge giving a lead-out to a sprinter, had they had one.

Even taking out a time trial for another mountain, he'd have won and I've always thought he'd have won last year too had he stayed upright - although in a way, it's better he didn't and won it in this manner.
aggs
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Cissy Fairfax:
“I enjoy the stages where there's 10-15km from the final mountain top. Riders who usually wouldn't have a hope of holding off the serious GC guys, probably only need 30 seconds to hold on during the downhill. You don't need any more than 2 mtf in either mountains and maybe a smaller one in the first week to sort out the GC.”

Sean Yates in full descent flight was an awesome sight.

As was the guy who used to lead Jan Ullrich down the descents - Udo Bolts?
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Cissy Fairfax:
“Fair enough, I've re-read it and could've worded it better. For the record I've argued what you have on the CN forum where I'm "in denial" apparently.

It was probably the greatest individual domestic sporting performance I've ever seen - on a professional level. Redgrave cumulatively maybe better but not as a one off.

Today was the highlight of it, you wouldn't have seen Lance leading the at the flame rouge giving a lead-out to a sprinter, had they had one.

Even taking out a time trial for another mountain, he'd have won and I've always thought he'd have won last year too had he stayed upright - although in a way, it's better he didn't and won it in this manner.”

Again, I find myself agreeing. People tend to forget that when Wiggins came 4th in 2009, he was able, for the most part, to keep up with the big boys in the mountain stages. something that surprised pretty much everyone I think.

What really annoys me is people jabbering on about Froome, who probably weren't aware of his existence until a couple of weeks ago.
aggs
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“Again, I find myself agreeing. People tend to forget that when Wiggins came 4th in 2009, he was able, for the most part, to keep up with the big boys in the mountain stages. something that surprised pretty much everyone I think.

What really annoys me is people jabbering on about Froome, who probably weren't aware of his existence until a couple of weeks ago.”

I think people keep forgetting there is more to being the Yellow Jeresy than just being 'first on the road' it's all the experience of riding and finishing The Tour (which is a different beast to any of the other Grand Tours) it's the fact that a stage dosen't finish when you cross the line, it's the face your are The Face of The Tour, the press, the fact you don't get a rest day, the fact you can't have a bad day ... just everything.

Chris Froome will have learnt an immesurable amount from just being involved with a team with the Yellow jersey on it - which will hopefully stand him in good stead in his career.
Electra
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“I think people keep forgetting there is more to being the Yellow Jeresy than just being 'first on the road' it's all the experience of riding and finishing The Tour (which is a different beast to any of the other Grand Tours) it's the fact that a stage dosen't finish when you cross the line, it's the face your are The Face of The Tour, the press, the fact you don't get a rest day, the fact you can't have a bad day ... just everything.

Chris Froome will have learnt an immesurable amount from just being involved with a team with the Yellow jersey on it - which will hopefully stand him in good stead in his career.”

Absolutely!

Tbh, I feel that Froome's dramatics in the Pyrenees the other day showed that he's not mentally ready to be team leader in the TDF. He doesn't have the maturity.
Eater Sundae
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“Again, I find myself agreeing. People tend to forget that when Wiggins came 4th in 2009, he was able, for the most part, to keep up with the big boys in the mountain stages. something that surprised pretty much everyone I think.

What really annoys me is people jabbering on about Froome, who probably weren't aware of his existence until a couple of weeks ago.”

Something that I think is still difficult to know for certain is just how much more effective Froome is at climbing. Just because he can kick and accelerate whereas Wiggins doesn't appear to be able to doesn't mean he can maintain it for long enough to regularly make it count. We might find that Wiggins' slow(er) and steady is nearly as effective.

I think that when (or if) it comes to the crunch the Sky team will make the difficult decisions necesary to give them the best chance of winning on whatever type of course is chosen for each event.

Even if a rider feels he is missing out by not being number one, Sky are looking like they could dominate for a while, so it would be a risky strategy to decide to jump ship.
Captain Timber
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“Something that I think is still difficult to know for certain is just how much more effective Froome is at climbing. Just because he can kick and accelerate whereas Wiggins doesn't appear to be able to doesn't mean he can maintain it for long enough to regularly make it count. We might find that Wiggins' slow(er) and steady is nearly as effective.”

Brad measures his effort for the whole stage, not the bit he can see up the road.

The story of the father and son Bull illustrates this nicely...

Father and son Bull were standing on a hill, looking down at a herd of cows in the valley below. Junior says to Dad, "come on, lets run down and sh*g one of them. "No, son" says Dad, "we'll walk down and sh*g them all".
Eater Sundae
22-07-2012
As I see it Froome has been a great success on this tour, but I couldn't see any basis for calls that he should be number one. Yes, if he'd been team leader he would prolbably have won, but that's not a reason to change.

With the professionalism of Sky we can be certain that they know the strengths and limits of each rider, and sensibly went for Wiggins. IMO, I think Wiggins was riding well within himself and not taking any risks, because he didn't have to.

Also, Riis's comment that Froome should be leader was just mischief making.
mindyann
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“As I see it Froome has been a great success on this tour, but I couldn't see any basis for calls that he should be number one. Yes, if he'd been team leader he would prolbably have won, but that's not a reason to change.

With the professionalism of Sky we can be certain that they know the strengths and limits of each rider, and sensibly went for Wiggins. IMO, I think Wiggins was riding well within himself and not taking any risks, because he didn't have to.

Also, Riis's comment that Froome should be leader was just mischief making.”

Well, with the understanding that the name Riis always brings out the <gggrrr> in me - Wiggins was never lower than 2nd on GC and so had a lead over all his rivals.

Which team in their right mind would ride against that. I'm sure Mr Riis can remember having a young, first time tour rider snapping at his heels and how he advised that Jan should be promoted to team leader ... Oh, wait ...
deadbeat hero
22-07-2012
Heard a few people today commenting on rumours that several teams are after Cav's services for next year. Hardly surprising although I don't suppose he comes cheap.

Didn't think too much of it until I read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18949125
peter3hg
22-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“You could say the same about Mig & Armstrong.


But that would be just as silly.

Froome is a climber, who has a good TT in him.

Wiggins (and Mig & Armstrong) is a Time Trialer who can also climb.

Obviously, a specialist climber is likely to be better at going uphill than someone who isn't.”

Armstrong could produce a ferocious burst of acceleration, instantly shedding everyone. Wiggins can't do that.
Electra
23-07-2012
Originally Posted by peter3hg:
“Armstrong could produce a ferocious burst of acceleration, instantly shedding everyone. Wiggins can't do that.”

Wiggins is clean #JustSaying
Captain Timber
23-07-2012
Originally Posted by deadbeat hero:
“Heard a few people today commenting on rumours that several teams are after Cav's services for next year. Hardly surprising although I don't suppose he comes cheap.

Didn't think too much of it until I read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18949125”

If anyone knows, Rob Hales will. He was asked this directly on Eurosport yesterday, and didn't answer it comfortably at all. "He's signed a three year contract..but..well..erm..". I know that's his 'style' of broadcasting , but there was no "he's got a contract, he's staying", which I would expect a close friend/colleague to say in such circumstances.
Electra
23-07-2012
Found this interesting snippet on the BBC website

The total distance cycled in time trials this year came to 96km (60 miles) excluding the 6km opening Prologue, more than in any of the last four Tours, but less than in 2003, 2006 or 2007.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922103
2003 - Lance Armstrong
2006 - Oscar Pereiro (after Floyd Landis stripped of title)
2007 - Alberto Contador
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