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The Pro Cycling Thread
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aggs
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by Electra:
“Does anyone know what time the Olympic Road Race is on Saturday?”

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...-schedule.html

Starts at 10.00am
Electra
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...-schedule.html

Starts at 10.00am ”

Thank you

Interesting article on BBC website

Tour de France: Are drug-free cyclists slower?

Despite the odd positive drugs test, cycling is considered to be a much cleaner sport now, which is universally welcomed. But has that affected speeds in the Tour de France?

Read on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18921784
Eater Sundae
24-07-2012
A pretty random question regarding drugs in sport.

Does anyone know of any data regarding long term effects of drugs, or links to any.

I was wondering whether any of the drugs historically used in cycling might still be providing a performance increase long after the cyclist has stopped taking them. For example, if a rider has received a 2 year ban, and remained clean during the ban, could he stiil be seeing a performance improvement left over from when he took the drugs.
walterwhite
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“A pretty random question regarding drugs in sport.

Does anyone know of any data regarding long term effects of drugs, or links to any.

I was wondering whether any of the drugs historically used in cycling might still be providing a performance increase long after the cyclist has stopped taking them. For example, if a rider has received a 2 year ban, and remained clean during the ban, could he stiil be seeing a performance improvement left over from when he took the drugs.”

Possibly, but EPO and derivatives of it seem the most common in cycling and I imagine after 2 years the lasting effects would be zero.
Eater Sundae
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“Possibly, but EPO and derivatives of it seem the most common in cycling and I imagine after 2 years the lasting effects would be zero.”

Thanks, yes, I would imagine (with no medical knowledge on my part) that blood "work" would be short lasting. I was thinking more in terms of steroids (i think).
grassmarket
24-07-2012
Steroids etc give you the ability to train more and build more muscle mass, so the effects would be long lasting, providing you kept up the training at the plateau level. EPO increases the proportion of red blood cells in the blood, thus increasing oxygen uptake, so I imagine its benefits would be fairly short-term, because your blood replaces itself fairly quickly.
d'@ve
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...-schedule.html

Starts at 10.00am ”

Finish 4:15 pm (allegedly). It's on BBC 1 from 1:15 and all of it on one of the special channels.
aggs
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by grassmarket:
“Steroids etc give you the ability to train more and build more muscle mass, so the effects would be long lasting, providing you kept up the training at the plateau level. EPO increases the proportion of red blood cells in the blood, thus increasing oxygen uptake, so I imagine its benefits would be fairly short-term, because your blood replaces itself fairly quickly.”

Yes, wasn't EPO supossed to mimic the effects of training at altitude - and then when it was detectable the next thing was to actually train at altitude but give the red blood cell rich blood which was kept ready to be transfused when an altitude boost was needed?
grassmarket
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by aggs:
“Yes, wasn't EPO supossed to mimic the effects of training at altitude - and then when it was detectable the next thing was to actually train at altitude but give the red blood cell rich blood which was kept ready to be transfused when an altitude boost was needed?”

There were all sorts of variations involving blood transfusions. In the early days EPO was very often fatal, because more blood cells means more blood coagulation, and a greater risk of heart attacks. At one point they worked out that you could lower the risk of heart attacks by exercising every eight hours, so teams were getting up at 3 in the morning, doing an hour or so on exercise bikes, then going back to bed again. You can judge the extent to which the UCI and the media were turning a blind eye when all this was going on in 2-star hotels dotted around the motorways of Europe.

What put a stop to it was Italy and France passing laws that put the criminal liability on the team managers, doctors, physios etc who were supplying the drugs, rather than on the cyclists.
aggs
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by grassmarket:
“There were all sorts of variations involving blood transfusions. In the early days EPO was very often fatal, because more blood cells means more blood coagulation, and a greater risk of heart attacks. At one point they worked out that you could lower the risk of heart attacks by exercising every eight hours, so teams were getting up at 3 in the morning, doing an hour or so on exercise bikes, then going back to bed again. You can judge the extent to which the UCI and the media were turning a blind eye when all this was going on in 2-star hotels dotted around the motorways of Europe.

What put a stop to it was Italy and France passing laws that put the criminal liability on the team managers, doctors, physios etc who were supplying the drugs, rather than on the cyclists.”

I remember reading a book - but it escapes me who actually wrote it about people hanging from door frames to exercise and do pull ups.
Eater Sundae
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by grassmarket:
“There were all sorts of variations involving blood transfusions. In the early days EPO was very often fatal, because more blood cells means more blood coagulation, and a greater risk of heart attacks. At one point they worked out that you could lower the risk of heart attacks by exercising every eight hours, so teams were getting up at 3 in the morning, doing an hour or so on exercise bikes, then going back to bed again. You can judge the extent to which the UCI and the media were turning a blind eye when all this was going on in 2-star hotels dotted around the motorways of Europe.

What put a stop to it was Italy and France passing laws that put the criminal liability on the team managers, doctors, physios etc who were supplying the drugs, rather than on the cyclists.”

Thanks for that. I'd like to read up about more of this and how the government authorities have acted. Does anyone know the book that aggs referred to? Or any links I might follow up. Thanks
Last edited by Eater Sundae : 24-07-2012 at 18:14
aggs
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“Thanks for that. I'd like to read up about more of this and how the government authorities have acted. Does anyone know the book that aggs referred to? Or any links I might follow up. Thanks”

It's been driving me mad

I'm sure it was a book not an article.

The best I can come up with is either Willy Voet's 'Breaking the Chain' or Paul Kimmage and 'Rough Ride' ... But I wouldn't have actual cash on it being either
fluffed
24-07-2012
Bad blood maybe? Not read it myself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Blood-Se.../dp/0224080237
batdude_uk1
24-07-2012
Well I have set my Sky box to record the mens and womens road races, they should be very good!
cmq2
24-07-2012
Whittle's Bad Blood contains mention of journalists woken in the early hours by the stationary bikes of pro-riders in the same hotel block. It may also be covered in Rendell's Pantani book; I think one of them also mentions cyclists clubbing together to buy blood centrifuges. Kimmage's cycling career ended before the EPO era kicked in.

Dr Ross Tucker, mentioned in the BBC article, and the BBC's most recent More or Less podcast, has his own blog that has items that cover doping in cycling: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/doping.html
aggs
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by cmq2:
“Whittle's Bad Blood contains mention of journalists woken in the early hours by the stationary bikes of pro-riders in the same hotel block. It may also be covered in Rendell's Pantani book; I think one of them also mentions cyclists clubbing together to buy blood centrifuges. Kimmage's cycling career ended before the EPO era kicked in.

Ross Tucker, mentioned in the BBC article and the BBC's most recent More or Less podcast has his own blog that includes articles on doping in cycling:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/doping.html ”

Yes, but it was updated and revised in 1990 and there was an epilogue added inthe mid 90's to cover EPO.

Edit:

It is in the added epilogue to Rough Ride. Just found it.
Last edited by aggs : 24-07-2012 at 20:00
Mark F
24-07-2012
Was looking on some general cycling forums which naturally had fans from all over the world on and quite a few had doubt over how clean Wiggo or more so Team Sky were.

Is this just people being wary after the unfortunate run of tour winners being found to have been taking drugs or is there some bitterness maybe from fans who have seen Sky come in and dominate?

I don't know fully how the drug testing works but as the cyclists have so many thesedays surely if there was cheating going on anyone would be caught out quite quickly whereas maybe its been a slow progress in the past?

Also Wiggins himself would have been tested as an Olympian many times. and has said that he'd never take drugs because it would ruin his life..

Evans hasn't been caught cheating as far as I am aware after winning last year so maybe people do need to trust the cyclists more now or is that never going to happen given the history?
doffer
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by klunk:
“Anyone know if they're allowed team radios at the Olympics?”

No, they're not.
batdude_uk1
24-07-2012
It would be the biggest shock ever if Bradley or Cav tested positive, as it would ruin British cycling, and the Olympic set-up, that is why I belive any sniping, is just pure jelousy, and nothing more.
BrokenArrow
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“It would be the biggest shock ever if Bradley or Cav tested positive, as it would ruin British cycling, and the Olympic set-up, that is why I belive any sniping, is just pure jelousy, and nothing more.”

Not everything is as clear cut as it seems though. There was the case of a British athlete in the US (I can't remember what sport it was) who tested positive for a banned substance.

It turned out that he had a cold and had taken a Lem-sip. Lem-Sip was on his list of approved remedies on his British supplied list but the Lem-Sips in the US contained different ingredients and no one had told him this.
klunk
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by doffer:
“
Quote:
“Anyone know if they're allowed team radios at the Olympics?”

No, they're not.”

Thanks. Interesting. Must be difficult to enforce.
afx237vi
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“Not everything is as clear cut as it seems though. There was the case of a British athlete in the US (I can't remember what sport it was) who tested positive for a banned substance.

It turned out that he had a cold and had taken a Lem-sip. Lem-Sip was on his list of approved remedies on his British supplied list but the Lem-Sips in the US contained different ingredients and no one had told him this.”

Alain Baxter, the downhill skier.
Mark F
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“It would be the biggest shock ever if Bradley or Cav tested positive, as it would ruin British cycling, and the Olympic set-up, that is why I belive any sniping, is just pure jelousy, and nothing more.”

He's not beign questioned I don't think...seems to be just Wiggins and the guys who helped him in the mountains in terms of sudden improvement aided by weight loss and just general form.

Like you say I am sure the coaches wouldn't want to risk the improved reptuation and popularity of the sport in this country for trying to cheat others.

Here is one such thread:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthr...=17955&page=16
klunk
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“Not everything is as clear cut as it seems though. There was the case of a British athlete in the US (I can't remember what sport it was) who tested positive for a banned substance.

It turned out that he had a cold and had taken a Lem-sip. Lem-Sip was on his list of approved remedies on his British supplied list but the Lem-Sips in the US contained different ingredients and no one had told him this.”

Alain Baxter, skiing.
I think you have to sceptical about excuses, though. They all have sob stories. The athletes know that the rules are strict about medicines. It surprises me that an athlete subject to strict doping controls would not realise that the composition of medicine brands in the US is not necessarily the same as in the UK.

[edit] Hmmm, perhaps Alain Baxter was Vicks Inhaler. The point remains, but I'm not so sure that he was the Lemsip man. I'm now off to doping control myself to test for memory-altering drugs,and in my case it's almost certainly going to be positive.
grassmarket
24-07-2012
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“Was looking on some general cycling forums which naturally had fans from all over the world on and quite a few had doubt over how clean Wiggo or more so Team Sky were.”

There were lots of doubts when Sky was dominating the first week. Then when the second week came, and it was obvious that the times Sky were setting in the mountains were way down on what had been done in previous years, everyone stopped complaining about drugs, then started complaining about how boring they were.
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