[Chester666666]

Locke murdered Naomi to aid the island

[velvetnightsky]

I totally agree, killing in the name of anything is wrong, and a lot of those instances were addressed by other characters - e.g. Jack with Locke with both lying about Boone's fall and Naomi's murder, Kate and Juliet re: shooting a child regardless of who he is to become.

I decided to re-watch it from season/series 1 as I'm off sick and right away I really dislike Michael and Charlie. I know what happens with Charlie's story over the series but he always just seems short tempered and unwilling to listen to anyone. Something that also strikes me is how they made out that Charlie was always crazy about Claire, yet he spends the first 3-4 episodes immediately drawn to Kate, and becomes moody and sarcastic when she and Jack seem to be attracted to each other. It's only after he's unsuccessful with both Kate and Shannon that he starts talking to Claire properly.

Michael is just a full on jerk, and I'm remembering more and more how much I hate him constantly yelling 'Waaaaalllllt' over and over. It's really irritating.

[SillyBillyGoat]

Originally Posted by velvetnightsky

I decided to re-watch it from season/series 1 as I'm off sick and right away I really dislike Michael and Charlie

Thank you! I always disliked Charlie. The way he became so possessive over Claire and Aaron drove me mad. He had no right. Come on, he even hated it when Locke became close to the pair, like he thought Claire was suddenly going to leave him and get together with Locke?

Locke became my hero when he punched Charlie.

[joshNOM]

Originally Posted by SillyBillyGoat

I don't feel let down by the answers. I just didn't like how some characters were treated.

The likes of Libby, Charlotte and Ilana had much more to give. But no, the A Team were more important. Frankly, I tired of the likes of Jack, Kate and Sawyer. I wouldn't have minded if Jack had blown up in Exodus, and Arzt joined the main cast.

This is exactly my thoughts! I really wished we'd learn about these characters more. Like why did they keep putting Kate as the main female, when nearly all her episodes follow the same pattern and were pretty poor.

I'm rewatching the show now, Onto 'Homecoming' in Series 1 at the moment. Enjoying it a lot Really dislike Michael this time round.

[SillyBillyGoat]

I was rewatching The Incident recently, and was still confused by a couple of things:

- Did anyone else find the scene between Bernard and Juliet strange? It seemed like there would be some significance to it, but there wasn't. It was just, well, strange.

- How did Juliet actually die? Was it from the injuries sustained from the fall, and then being crushed by the structure that fell after her? Or the bomb detonation? Or a combination of all? Also, did the bomb actually detonate, or was there just another time shift as she struck it? If it did in fact go off, wouldn't the likes of Chang and Radzinsky have died? (they weren't THAT far from the site at the time). We know they in fact survived The Incident.

[Liamforking]

Originally Posted by Lady Spice

I got the entire series for Christmas, and have been watching it pretty much 24/7 since.

Wow, is all I can say.

When I watched it the first time round, I was so wrapped up in trying to make sense of everything that I couldn't just sit back and enjoy. Not that I didn't enjoy all the intrigue, but this is completely different.

I have found myself crying buckets at various points:

When they were launching the raft - for the hope they all had and the human sense of endeavour and adventure that motivated them to build it in the first place.

When Charlie sacrificed himself and tried to warn the other survivors beforehand.

When Jack first managed to speak to the freighter and the hope the survivors all felt that they were going to be rescued.

Penny & Desmond...........

I'm up to season 4, and it's got me by the throat all over again. Knowing how it all turns out hasn't ruined it at all. I thought that with a show like this it would, but it just means that my viewing experience is different as I'm not frantically trying to connect the dots. Rather, I'm just sitting back and letting the whole thing just wash over me like a lovely warm bubble bath. Loving it!

Having watched the entire Lost saga, I cried when the writers couldn't think up an ending

[T.K. Mazin]

Originally Posted by velvetnightsky

I totally agree, killing in the name of anything is wrong, and a lot of those instances were addressed by other characters - e.g. Jack with Locke with both lying about Boone's fall and Naomi's murder, Kate and Juliet re: shooting a child regardless of who he is to become.

I decided to re-watch it from season/series 1 as I'm off sick and right away I really dislike Michael and Charlie. I know what happens with Charlie's story over the series but he always just seems short tempered and unwilling to listen to anyone. Something that also strikes me is how they made out that Charlie was always crazy about Claire, yet he spends the first 3-4 episodes immediately drawn to Kate, and becomes moody and sarcastic when she and Jack seem to be attracted to each other. It's only after he's unsuccessful with both Kate and Shannon that he starts talking to Claire properly.

Michael is just a full on jerk, and I'm remembering more and more how much I hate him constantly yelling 'Waaaaalllllt' over and over. It's really irritating.

Yes, I totally agree about Charlie. I couldn't stand him to be honest and just came across as a bit of a prat IMO.

Regarding the BIB, I think that was the point of the character. He was basically quite shallow/superficial. Do you remember one of his flashback episodes that involved him hooking up with some woman with a rich father, so he could leech money from her or something? (I forgot the whole story now). But I think those flashbacks highlighted Charlie's superficial behaviour toward the women on the Island. He saw Kate and Shannon as the two prettiest women of course and hanged around them to see if they liked him romantically, but when they appeared disinterested in our friendly neighbourhood hobbit - Charlie went to his third choice, Claire. And I have no clue why he became so possessive over her, like he had any right to .

Seems harsh, but I did enjoy it when Locke laid the smackdown on Charlie .
But the best part came in the next episode when Sawyer teased Charlie about the beating and compared Locke to Ghandi lol. I believe the exact quote was, "Stealing a baby and then trying to drown it, now that's a new low. You even made Locke take a swing at you. Hell, that's like getting Ghandi to beat his kids!" Haha . Sawyer was legendary with his one-liners .

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by T.K. Mazin

Yes, I totally agree about Charlie. I couldn't stand him to be honest and just came across as a bit of a prat.

Regarding the BIB, I think that was the point of the character. He was basically quite shallow/superficial. Do you remember one of his flashback episodes that involved him hooking up with some woman with a rich father, so he could leech money from her or something? (I forgot the whole story now). But I think those flashbacks highlighted Charlie's superficial behaviour toward the women on the Island. He saw Kate and Shannon as the two prettiest women of course and hanged around them to see if they liked him romantically, but when they appeared disinterested in our friendly neighbourhood hobbit - Charlie went to his third choice, Claire. And I have no clue why he became so possessive over her, like he had any right to .

Not quite. He hated himself for his moral decline, from choir boy to drug user rock star. The experience with the rich girl when he got found out only made matters worse (what she said really got to him). Claire was his chance to redeem himself in his eyes. He saw her as his chance to prove to himself that he could shoulder responsibility and be a provider. Of course, he did go over the top and became possessive (swaping one addiction for another, you could say).

[T.K. Mazin]

Originally Posted by RebelScum

Not quite. He hated himself for his moral decline, from choir boy to drug user rock star. The experience with the rich girl when he got found out only made matters worse (what she said to him really got to him). Claire was his chance to redeem himself in his eyes. He saw her as his chance to prove to himself that he could shoulder responsibility and be a provider. Of course, he did go over and become posesive (swaping one addiction for another, you could say).

Indeed. I agree. But what I was trying to say was that those flashbacks and his superficial behaviour within them helps you to understand his superficial attempts to get Kate and Shannon to fancy him in the early episodes. Helped me anyway . I can't talk for others. Soon as he realised Kate and Shannon were interested in other men, he went to Claire. Charlie was inwardly quite a shallow/superficial person at heart (which was highlighted in the flashbacks), but of course Claire made him want to change and redeem himself as you said.

[Lady Spice]

.....Which of course is the common thread of ALL the characters. Their arrival on the island was their chance to find their own redemption. Each one had their own journey to undertake, and their starting point was the reason for all the flashbacks, so we would understand what these people had been, and eventually what they would become. Can you ever imagine Charlie giving his life to save the others based on his selfish past?

Totally agree about Sawyer and his one-line put downs. He was an absolute star!

[joshNOM]

Originally Posted by T.K. Mazin

Indeed. I agree. But what I was trying to say was that those flashbacks and his superficial behaviour within them helps you to understand his superficial attempts to get Kate and Shannon to fancy him in the early episodes. Helped me anyway . I can't talk for others. Soon as he realised Kate and Shannon were interested in other men, he went to Claire. Charlie was inwardly quite a shallow/superficial person at heart (which was highlighted in the flashbacks), but of course Claire made him want to change and redeem himself as you said.

To me, I didn't think he was particularly hitting on Kate & Shannon. I think he simply wanted to do something, by accompanying Jack & Kate in the pilot, and was more a bit miffed that Jack & Kate were screaming for each other, and not him
And it was Shannon who made the move on him and flirted, so he would catch her a fish, and he just fell for her advances.

I agree with what he was like in his flashbacks though.

I really like Charlie, rewatching Season 1, But I know that will change rewatching Season 2

[UpInMyFace]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days and I am so tempted to buy the full boxset and watch it all back from the start.

I was so annoyed with how it all ended though and the fact we had so few questions answered.

Maybe I am too thick but I still don't understand what the ending actually was....

[Chester666666]

the ending was excellent
I loved it
JJ Abrams is awesome

[Liamforking]

Originally Posted by Chester666666

the ending was excellent
I loved it
JJ Abrams is awesome

You liked all those loose threads?
Time travel.
The island moving.
People being hundreds of years old.
The light source.
What the numbers meant.
How they got Locke's real father onto the island.

Yeah, that was some ending alright, really brought the whole thing together as a cohesive and satisfying whole.

[joshNOM]

To be fair, if you read through this most mysteries are wrapped pretty much, apart from the odd one, that really isn't important.

And the episode that focused entirely on trying to give answers ('Across the Sea') was pretty awful, the show was really about the characters, how they grew and came together throughout the show. And for me, the series ended really well, when it comes down to that Can't anyone just appreciate how amazing the show was?

[velvetnightsky]

Originally Posted by Lady Spice

.....Which of course is the common thread of ALL the characters. Their arrival on the island was their chance to find their own redemption. Each one had their own journey to undertake, and their starting point was the reason for all the flashbacks, so we would understand what these people had been, and eventually what they would become. Can you ever imagine Charlie giving his life to save the others based on his selfish past?

Totally agree about Sawyer and his one-line put downs. He was an absolute star!

Absolutely, I think I would have been able to endure his superficialness more if he hadn't been so pigheaded with everyone, including his supposed best friend Hurley. I rewatched Numbers yesterday and it just struck me what a hot headed little jerk he could be. He would not for one second trust that Hurley was doing something for himself and spent the entire time calling him an idiot and a loon.

[Liamforking]

Originally Posted by joshNOM

To be fair, if you read through this most mysteries are wrapped pretty much, apart from the odd one, that really isn't important.

And the episode that focused entirely on trying to give answers ('Across the Sea') was pretty awful, the show was really about the characters, how they grew and came together throughout the show. And for me, the series ended really well, when it comes down to that Can't anyone just appreciate how amazing the show was?

I read the explanations in the link you kindly provided about time travel amd moving the island and the only explanation was basically 'magic'.
The 'light' did it - yeah and the light is...

Edit: This best expresses how i feel about Lost's ending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJp86_tj9KQ

[joshNOM]

Originally Posted by Liamforking

I read the explanations in the link you kindly provided about time travel amd moving the island and the only explanation was basically 'magic'.
The 'light' did it - yeah and the light is...

I suppose, its enough for me though

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by Liamforking

I read the explanations in the link you kindly provided about time travel amd moving the island and the only explanation was basically 'magic'.
The 'light' did it - yeah and the light is...

...A piece of heaven/the afterlife.

We know from the finale that known rules of time and space do not apply to the after life. The light we saw in the afterlife right at the end was the same light at the heart of the island... if the rules of time and space do not apply to the light, then the same will apply to the immediate area surrounding the light here on earth (the islands).

You could think of the light as a spiritual umbilical cord to the afterlife. Call it magic if you like, call it supernatual. But you could also say that the supernatual is merely science we do not understand yet.

[Liamforking]

Originally Posted by RebelScum

...A piece of heaven/the afterlife.

We know from the finale that known rules of time and space do not apply to the after life. The light we saw in the afterlife right at the end was the same light at the heart of the island... if the rules of time and space do not apply to the light, then that will also apply to the light on earth, and the area surrounding the light (the islands).

You could think of the light as a spiritual umbilical cord to the afterlife. Call it magic if you like, call it supernatual. But you could also say that the supernatual is merely science we do not understand yet.

In real life I would say that the supernatural (which i believe in) is science as yet not understood.
I just don't think it translates to great telly - which Lost undoubetly was until near its (weak) ending.

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by Liamforking

In real life I would say that the supernatural (which i believe in) is science as yet not understood.
I just don't think it translates to great telly - which Lost undoubetly was until near its (weak) ending.

There are answers to the threads you mentioned earlier, it's a matter of connecting the dots. However once the dots are connected, some of us will be satisfied and others wont be. Thats perfectly natural and I've never had a problem with that. It's those who didn't bother connecting the dots and moan about lack of answers that baffle me.

[Barb Ablar]

I could have coped with all the island based stuff and even the lame answers.
The thing that really spoiled it for me was the "Flash Sideways" stuff, which a lot of people, including myself thought was an alternate reality, but when it proved to be an afterlife/purgatory deal I was crestfallen !

Now because I know the ending is not my cup of tea, I can't re watch and enjoy the awesomeness of the rest of the series.

Personally I'd have preferred the final season to have been based on the island and nothing else. That would have given the writers more scope and time to explore and explain the mysteries.

[Liamforking]

Originally Posted by RebelScum

There are answers to the threads you mentioned earlier, it's a matter of connecting the dots. However once the dots are connected, some of us will be satisfied and others wont be. Thats perfectly natural and I've never had a problem with that. It's those who didn't bother connecting the dots and moan about lack of answers that baffle me.

The thing is I'm a professional script writer (I have my own Independent film company) and what is missing with the Lost story arc is 'WHY'.
We are told that there is a light on the island that draws people to it, but there was never a 'why'. Why was there a light? Why did it draw people?
A story needs a motive, not just a mystery (regardless of whether that mystery is resolved or not).

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by Liamforking

The thing is I'm a professional script writer (I have my own Independent film company) and what is missing with the Lost story arc is 'WHY'.
We are told that there is a light on the island that draws people to it, but there was never a 'why'. Why was there a light? Why did it draw people?
A story needs a motive, not just a mystery (regardless of whether that mystery is resolved or not).

There is a why. See the second paragraph of my previous post. Its a spiritual bridge between us and the afterlife.

You can argue the merits of a story that breadcrumbs the motive vs a story that spells it out. I guess a clear spelled out motive will please more people, and in many ways is fairer; whilst a story that leaves it up to the audience to connect the dots will always be more controversial.

[T.K. Mazin]

Originally Posted by Lady Spice

.....Which of course is the common thread of ALL the characters. Their arrival on the island was their chance to find their own redemption. Each one had their own journey to undertake, and their starting point was the reason for all the flashbacks, so we would understand what these people had been, and eventually what they would become. Can you ever imagine Charlie giving his life to save the others based on his selfish past?

Totally agree about Sawyer and his one-line put downs. He was an absolute star!

I agree 100%. Redemption was at the heart of all the characters' stories. They all had made mistakes and had many regrets - Jacob bringing them to the Island actually gave them the chance to right the wrongs in their lives instead of continuing on the same mistake-ridden path that they were on.

Admittedly, I did warm to Charlie in Season 3 a bit and his exit episode was very well done . But overall (especially in Season 2), I honestly just found him annoying lol . I had nothing against him in regards to his flashbacks considering my favourite character was Sawyer and he had done some evil things himself lol. And yes I agree, if we were to see Charlie acting like a hero (as he did in the Season 3 finale) in Season 1 - it wouldn't have worked. We had to see the character grow from a selfish, drug-addicted rock star reject to family man and hero on the Island.

Talking of Sawyer, I have to say, out of all the characters - I enjoyed his growth (from selfish conman to heroic leader) the most. I think his journey was the most satisfying and I'm glad he lived at the end . If you compare his character in Season 1 to the character seen in Season 6 - there's such a significant difference between them and that's a testament to the great character development. He really was the Han Solo of Lost .