You have a big difference in that each judge has to vote for one contestant - there's no new total on the leaderboard to decide it - just three either or votes. If they were all marked again, and the marks were added up, Andy might still have been ahead (though by less than in the show scoreboard) As it is, the three judges have to decide on their own and the person with 2 out of 3 wins.

On the original score, Heidi had a 4.5 from Louie and another from Robin and a 3.5 from Katerina. Andy had 3.5, 5 and 5.5.On theirskate off comments Louie didn't move much judging by his comments, Robin thought Andy was messier and Heidi was improved, and Katerina gave Andy her vote, but thought Heidi had improved. Robin just has to move his marks up for Heidi by enough for it to pass Andys mark coming down, and he doesn't have to even move a whole mark or even a half mark to do that.


How you decide is up to you and what factors you look at. You could do it straight on the performance, improvement would show there anyway. Or you could reward improvement and penalise lack of it more . Or you could draw conclusions about what that means from what changed and what hasn't since you pointed it out, or you could be annoyed that what you had pointed out has been ignored. It doesn't really matter in this case, because all Robin has to do is to move Andy from 5 to 4.6 and Heidi from 4.5 to 4.7 and his vote and the outcome change as they did. Even if Louie or Katerina give Heidi a bit more too, Andy can still have a higher total, but he's out as soon as Robin concludes he's a bit worse and Heidi is a bit better than first time out.

They've always claimed that the skate-off is a clean slate, so the judges are making a direct comparison on those two performances. Sometimes when it's close there will be claims of one of them having more potential etc, but they shouldn't have any regard for the first skate, which is a bummer if you make a big mistake in your skate-off skate.

I presume the judges made a point of saying Heidi had improved as an explanation for saving her over the contestant who scored higher the first time around. In reality, I think Robin lent towards saving Heidi because he thought she was disadvantaged by changing partners, as well as her being one of the better known celebs.

Thats why Sinitta went that time, She was the much better skater, and then she slipped on the frog lift so they said they had to vote her out for that alone

Robin says they don't vote out just because of a mistake. It all depends on how big the mistake was and what score they would have had otherwise. He's saved people who have made mistakes who still did better than their opponant for that reason.

The problem for the early weeks is that when the skaters make a mistake, they haven't quite worked out how to recover from them, or how to avoid them, so it's just a visible wobble, rather than an outright error. The routines themselves have less content, so making a mess of your one big set piece has a bigger bearing than fluffing your way through a small part of the performance.

Depends too how they cope with judging the different routines. The big problem is the danger of ending up marking T and D, or on SCD the pro dancer, 's choregraphy. Its dull, or slow, or doesn't tell the story often because thats how it was written, so its unfair to blame the people skating it. DOI judges got very near to criticising T and D's choregraohy last series and they may be judging and talking more about how well the contestants do what they are given to avoid that. At one extreme, you would start marking every routine at 10 and knock marks off for weaknesses/mistakes - Andy might lose that way as he makes more mistakes. At the other, you might mentally give each routine a mark for difficulty, and give the contestant a percentage of that mark for how well its performed. If Heidis routine is worth a 5 max and she gets it 90% right, that still beats Andy doing a 7 routine, but only getting it 60% right. I imagine you mark on some rougher, in the head, calculation of this - or you could get 10 for standing still, if thats all you were choregraphed to do.

You lose either way they mark that. If they deduct for errors you lose marks, and if they count up what was good, failing your big move means there's not much else to count if you are adding marks for the positives. And you can't give marks for something that didn't work or for trying it.

I have to say I disagree with any comments that say that skating independently, just going around the ice is boring. I find that I'm more excited when the celebs perform their backward crossovers perfectly, using the more difficult edges during sequences etc. It's something that can't be done with an assist. The lifts are a part of the show and they are lovely to watch but seeing actual skating techniques being completed well is a joy to watch.

I agree with this to a large extent. I do also think there does need to be some performance & presentation element too. Gary Lucy is probably the best example of someone who was a nice skater but offered little else & it was a bit dull to watch, especially when he didn't seem to improve in this area at all throughout the series. However, I don't think Andy can be accused of this, he put on a performance, had a lot of charisma on the ice & was engaging and fun to watch.

To me though the most dull performances are those like Heidi's where she is just held up & carried by her partner demonstrating no skills on the ice.

Andy should have stayed. He really had personality AND ability
Heidi was really not very good at all ~totally boring and stiff



but Mark was the WORST skater

As per your quotes I was referring to Jennifer and vanilla and robins comments and as for the rest you were just being a smart a#re and btw you missed the bits in my original post when I said it was just my opinion and no offense was intended, you just came back with 'you said it' with a highlighted quote suggesting you know more than me and no constructive debate,Which I did ask for an explanation in my reply as I felt you were rude, and you came back with a sarcy comment, you did not add context to your original reply with either a smiley or a side comment, so maybe you should be aware the Internet cannot convey emotion and I have a right to take what you replied with as offensive, please make sure you put my quotes in context , oh dear oh dear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignazio
Oh dear oh dear!

Had I been aware of your sensitivity I would never have embarked upon what I regarded as a light hearted exchange.

I have not claimed to be an expert and nothing you have quoted above suggests otherwise.

You posted
I responded with
Now how does that translate to any claim of expertise by me?

I know few technical names for the moves choreographed for the routines, but either like or dislike the whole package of what I see and depend on the judges for the expert view. That last comment does of course exclude last years numpties Jason and Emma.

Incidentally do not put words into my mouth -
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=72I I have never implied that you are imbecilic or indeed used any other offensive epithet in my exchanges with you, nor did I suggest that your opinion doesn't matter.

btw don't you think the BIB is rather contradictory? You say Heidi was not entertaining - but go on to say
I will now respect your sensitivities by bringing this rather sour exchange to a close.

Should you care to respond yet again, please ensure that you refer to my actual posts, not your misinterpretations. On the other hand should my comments piss you off and incite rage (your words) it's probably best that you ignore them.

I think we should agree to disagree as we have clearly misinterpreted each other.

I think Andy should be voted back in, you could see he had a steadiness and strength on the ice. that some of them will never have.. I d like to see him back as really think he had loads of potential to be a superb skater.

I realise this is contentious and I am not wishing anything on anyone, but IF Dan is out and IF Jen does decide not to take part then maybe Andy can be reinstated? Although I guess he wouldn't have much of a routine for Sunday..!

The public obviously didn't agree that he was a superb skater otherwise he would not have been in the bottom two. Yes he was maybe not the worst on Sunday that clearly was Mark but the public didn't like him so voted him into the bottom two and its not to say that he would have been any better had he made it to week 3 and everyone has skated.

While he was maybe steadier than some you cannot say without seeing the others skate yet that he has great skills he in terms of male celebs was only being compared to 2 perhaps weaker skaters had he been in next weeks line up his weaknesses may have been more apparent.

I didn't really like his routine didn't like Heidi's either really but I don't think his going was any major controversy it could have gone either way. I also think he thought he was better than he was and I do not like the attitude in the exit interviews that I was surperb etc and the public should not have put me in the bottom 2 etc.

[quote=thenetworkbabe;55824611]. If Heidis routine is worth a 5 max and she gets it 90% right, that still beats Andy doing a 7 routine, but only getting it 60% right. QUOTE]


I'm quoting you out of context here NWB, but IF that is the way it should be done (and I appreciate you suggested it as one way only) then, whilst Louis and Robin seem to have used this formulation, Katarina seems to have done it rather differently, which is what confused me on Sunday (and probably in the past on occasions as well). Thanks, though, for your very succinct example of explaining the formulation, which I was struggling to do.

Neither Heidi not Andy should have gone. I bet there will be worse skaters in next week's show. On Strictly no-one is voted off until each pair have done two dances, which is better.

People who enter these things know that they are sometimes unfair, although usually most of the best contestants reach the semi - finals and finals.

Whatever - stay happy.

But is that a criticism of Heidi or one of the choregraphy she's been given? It might be that she falls down if Andrei doesn't hang on to her, or she may be able to do more, or it might be that she's spent all her time learning those lifts, and relearning them with Andrei, and could have done more skating by now if she hadn't. You could argue they tailor the routine to the skater, but they also have past history overusing exactly those simpler lifts. Bonnie was given a lift fest but showed on tour that when she concentrated on skating slills she could skate fast and well. Suzanne had the routine that had Nicky complaining about too many, very similar, lifts.They then let Suzanne show off her versatility. Melinda had weeks of them when she was capable of more difficult ones in the weeks she finally got one. Daniella needed better choregraphy one week to kick her campaign into gear. Even Hayley was given lots of the same lifts that Heidi got, although she showed elsewhere she could do umpteen other things in the way of dance moves, spins and harder or overhead lifts.

I don't understand why the producers decided to put Heidi on Week 1 knowing she had to change partners.. Surely in such a situation that the show hadn't seen before, you would think the producers/whoever made the decision would have allowed her to skate in week 2 to give her and extra 7 days to learn how to skate with her partner and have trust in him..

Maybe the wrong decision was made, but as always the bottom two was wrong, Kirk (dont know his real name) and Mark should have been in the bottom two!!

Spot on!

KingJJScott, according to today's Mirror, it is rumoured that Heidi had to skate instead of Jennifer Ellison, because her pro partner, Dan, had an injury..this is rumoured to have annoyed the others, who think Jennifer is getting preferential treatment...

It was Jorgie & Matt who were swapped with Jennifer & Dan.

I hope that isn't true, there are enough contestants this year to allow Heidi them both the chance to skate in the second week and let them get used to new partners!!

Why didn't they just tell Jen to skate with a different partner - no arguements. It is looking like preferential treatment for her. I accept that Dan is injured but why not tak the sensible option of telling her to skate with the sub male - she wouldn't have been kicked out at all

Did they have to save Heidi in case she complained about having to change partners and having less time to adjust and train with her nex partner ?

Maybe - but I'm still gutted Andy had to go (and annoyed with Robin). I think he could have been really good, and it would have nice to see Maria progressing again

She said on This Morning her little boy was in the audience and he was really upset over it

I wish they'd have a 'vote to come back' like on X Factor, I'd vote for Andy