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Old 17-01-2012, 15:55
icedragon
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Fairness isn't just (or even primarily) a matter of rules.


It doesn't matter that they all had the opportunity. If everyone has the opportunity to cheat on a test, it's still wrong and unfair for any of them to cheat.


If T&D did that, then they shouldn't have.


I don't think that takes us beyond what was said earlier re that point. But, ok: would it be fine for Katarina to be a DOI contestant, for example? All the arguments about how "every one of them has something that could be considered an advantage in the context of the show" could be brought in to defend the decision to include her.

Clearly, some advantages are more questionable than others.


I haven't agreed that there are no rules. But fairness isn't a matter of rules.


I haven't "decided to pick on Rosemary". There are a couple of things about her I don't like about her being in the show, so I've said I don't and explained why.

Anyone who had skating lessons in the period before the show would get the same complaint from me.

It's a matter of principle, and letting Rosemary have 2 years of skating lessons sets a bad precedent.

I think a line should be drawn; and if a line's drawn, it has to be drawn somewhere.
Don't you go drawing them lines on Rosemary! They all have skating lessons in the period before the show - some have more than others and that's for various reasons. Laila got injured - should the others have stopped skating for 3 weeks to make it fair to her? The guy who broke his leg and went back the following year had lessons in the time between ( as well as having benefited from his time on the show) - should he have been prevented from going back?

Some of them do very little because they have other commitments. Some have time to do a lot because they are not doing anything else. Some have had lessons when they were younger like Chris F (and the learn to skate course is the same for hockey and figure skating in the early stages) but he made the show that year a great one.

The exam cheating analogy is incorrect because there are rules in the exams against cheating. There are no rules to say you may not have as many skating lessons as you like before DOI. The aim of the show is to take celebs who are not professional skaters (so technically it could even be someone who did amateur skating competitions in their youth) and for them to compete in an ice dance type competition. Katarina could not because she has done ice shows and therefore is a professional.

I don't see many people (any?) agreeing with your personal definition of what's unfair in this case. It's an advantage to her to have done those lessons but not an unfair one. Your definition of unfair seems to be specific to Rosemary for whom you appear to have decided a certain set of rules you have in your head should apply. Happy Days!
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Old 17-01-2012, 17:14
Snow_Leopard
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She tripped on her toepick on a 3 turn - which can happen to anyone. At least she was doing 3 turns and using her edges rather than doing nothing except two footed forward skating like Laila. Plus she recovered quickly and went on to do more turns, crossovers and crossrolls albeit slowly. Laila stomped around the ice forwards only - her partner went around her rather than her turning at all.
I don't care what Rosemary was doing. It looked clumsy! So I would mark her down for that.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:05
Tiger Rose
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I don't care what Rosemary was doing. It looked clumsy! So I would mark her down for that.
You have to take account of difficulty though otherwise all of them would do simple stuff to get high marks and it would make for dull telly.

Neither of them were any great shakes and they were on the right place on the leaderboard which is all that matters. Laila is happy she left anyway - she has her fee & is having her shoulder op this week.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:11
Snow_Leopard
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You have to take account of difficulty though otherwise all of them would do simple stuff to get high marks and it would make for dull telly.
She wasn't doing anything difficult at the time as I remember. Just strolling on the ice!
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:40
Tiger Rose
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She wasn't doing anything difficult at the time as I remember. Just strolling on the ice!
I wouldn't say what she was doing was difficult & it was slow but she was still doing more than Laila and that's the point. At the end of the day she was 3rd from bottom (and rightly so) and she was a good few marks off the rest (again rightly so) so I'm not sure what the problem is you have with her marking.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:40
icedragon
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I don't care what Rosemary was doing. It looked clumsy! So I would mark her down for that.
I'm sure she was marked down for it as any of them are for a mistake. However she was doing a turn at the time - something Laila did not even attempt. As Robin Cousins said of Rosemary "Yes there was a stumble but the quality of the footwork you are doing and the basic skating skills is exquisite".
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