It would have been too much on his own if it was mid-way through the competition, and it is something he will need to work on, but it shouldn't have had much of an impact on his marks for week one when he did so much else, and did good stuff on his own. In that respect, he is a bit like Chris Fountain. His ice-hockey background meant he was very confident doing the general skating around type tricks, but he didn't really get pulled up for it until it went on for a while.
Louis marks Sebastian a 5.0
2 of 2
A 5.0 was about right. There was little if any evidence of a dance partnership. As Louis is focussing on the dance aspect of their performance nothing higher could be expected from him. He got better "technical merit" marks from the other two judges.
Originally Posted by *Sparkle*:
“It would have been too much on his own if it was mid-way through the competition, and it is something he will need to work on, but it shouldn't have had much of an impact on his marks for week one when he did so much else, and did good stuff on his own. In that respect, he is a bit like Chris Fountain. His ice-hockey background meant he was very confident doing the general skating around type tricks, but he didn't really get pulled up for it until it went on for a while.”
“It would have been too much on his own if it was mid-way through the competition, and it is something he will need to work on, but it shouldn't have had much of an impact on his marks for week one when he did so much else, and did good stuff on his own. In that respect, he is a bit like Chris Fountain. His ice-hockey background meant he was very confident doing the general skating around type tricks, but he didn't really get pulled up for it until it went on for a while.”
Yep he reminded me a bit of Chris Fountain and that's no bad thing in my book. I also suspect that if the partnering stuff hadn't got picked out in his VT that very few on here would have mentioned it either. It is an area he could improve but there was so much other good stuff to praise in a week 1 performance it seems petty for anyone to make a good deal out of it. Even the judges were divided on it with Kati not wanting anything to detract from what he can do as an individual.
Also a partnership doesn't always have to be about lifts & stuff you do in hold - they did some good side by side stuff in synch which is not easy to do and I thoroughly enjoyed it. At least it's something different and why not.
I missed the VT got it on catch up between shows so that didn't influence my initial thoughts watching the routine that there was no connection between Sebastien and Brianne. It was very much Sebastien wanting to do his thing as he is used to doing and Brianne kind of being an afterthought.
I like Sebastian, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in the coming weeks. Having said that, I understand where Louie is coming from. I didn't really like the routine, partly because of the choreography T&D's fault, but due to the fact that he seemed quite hunched (which looks good when he is free-running), but seemed wrong here.
Don't know if that makes sense
.
Anyway, a 5.0 is quite good
. I didn't think Robin and Katherina gave him that much more.
Don't know if that makes sense
.Anyway, a 5.0 is quite good
. I didn't think Robin and Katherina gave him that much more.
I think Louie gave good marks for what he is there to judge, on the night I loved the routine it was different but after thinking about it there was the rolling over which didn't really work that well and nothing in it included his partner by definition, but when it happened twice that's a long time not having partner involvement. Brianne is one of my favourite pros so am a little bit biassed when she skates. Louie did well, he explained his position as well. I think he is a good judge with good explanations and constructive criticism, he injects his own humour at times but not ad nauseaum.
Originally Posted by spannerandpony:
“Don't forget Louis is marking the dance performance as opposed to the skating technique. It was a really good skate but Sebastian is an athlete so could of course improve his dancing. Plus it's his first week so plenty of time to improve.”
“Don't forget Louis is marking the dance performance as opposed to the skating technique. It was a really good skate but Sebastian is an athlete so could of course improve his dancing. Plus it's his first week so plenty of time to improve.”
Louis is xsoooooo rubbish. The two skating professionals marked Sebastian fairly and he didn't.
I can't stand him with all that solo exhibitionist acrobatic posturing and rolling about on the floor. Leave it out! If anything, Louie was right and the others over -indulge him.
Louie completely missed the mood of the piece and the emotion being conveyed.
They opened with Sebastien, and others, doing muted movements in cloaks and masks, then there were masks projected on the ice during the performance. It was obviously a conscious decision for Sebastien to continue that mood by deliberately keeping his facial expression mask-like. The emotion of the music and the film were expressed through Sebastien avoiding displaying any specific emotions.
I was pleased the Sebastien was given the chance to explain himself, even if Louie didn't understand it, and would have prefered some gurning.
Louie seems to have a very fixed idea of what is acceptable dance. He is still banging on about wanting sharp moves, but sharp moves don't always suit the mood of the piece. When he was criticising Mark, he was criticising some of the choreography that made it like the choreography and characterisation of the film.
It's the difference between being the star performer and in the chorus line. Everyone in the chorus line needs to match and do things precisely, while the lead is actively encouraged to put a bit more personality into it, even if that means deviating from supposedly perfect dancing.
They opened with Sebastien, and others, doing muted movements in cloaks and masks, then there were masks projected on the ice during the performance. It was obviously a conscious decision for Sebastien to continue that mood by deliberately keeping his facial expression mask-like. The emotion of the music and the film were expressed through Sebastien avoiding displaying any specific emotions.
I was pleased the Sebastien was given the chance to explain himself, even if Louie didn't understand it, and would have prefered some gurning.
Louie seems to have a very fixed idea of what is acceptable dance. He is still banging on about wanting sharp moves, but sharp moves don't always suit the mood of the piece. When he was criticising Mark, he was criticising some of the choreography that made it like the choreography and characterisation of the film.
It's the difference between being the star performer and in the chorus line. Everyone in the chorus line needs to match and do things precisely, while the lead is actively encouraged to put a bit more personality into it, even if that means deviating from supposedly perfect dancing.
Originally Posted by Facechild:
“Louis is xsoooooo rubbish. The two skating professionals marked Sebastian fairly and he didn't.”
“Louis is xsoooooo rubbish. The two skating professionals marked Sebastian fairly and he didn't.”
Louie, regardless of what you think of his personality isnt 'rubbish' though, he is a very good dancer with excellent credentials.
I tend to agree with him regarding sebastien, who skates quite well but the quality of the performance isn't as big as his hype.
I think Louies scores have been fair, 5 isn't a bad score at this point in the competition and I think that's about where Sebastien is at the moment.
Someone a few posts up mentioned the VT talking about his partnering and that, had it not have been mentioned people wouldn't have picked up on it. I really have to differ on that, it wad glaringly obvious throughout last week, they were completely disjointed and they didn't have any chemistry.
It was really obvious, so I think people will have noticed anyway, although I respect that the VT did bring our attention to it, though that does not mean we wouldn't notice it otherwise.
This week was better than last week, but I still don't think he is anywhere near as good as some are hyping him up to be.
He is IMO about 3rd right now, slightly above the middle of the pack, but the gap between sebastien and then Matt and Jorgie is really big.
Originally Posted by jules1000:
“That was a great skate and deserved 6.0 he seems to mark certain people low marks even thought they deserve more.
Same thing happened last week with a certain skater.”
“That was a great skate and deserved 6.0 he seems to mark certain people low marks even thought they deserve more.
Same thing happened last week with a certain skater.”
Yes, it was shocking how they consistently undermarked Laura last year wasn't it.
Originally Posted by jules1000:
“That was a great skate and deserved 6.0 he seems to mark certain people low marks even thought they deserve more.
Same thing happened last week with a certain skater.”
“That was a great skate and deserved 6.0 he seems to mark certain people low marks even thought they deserve more.
Same thing happened last week with a certain skater.”
Just checked my scores in this week's DS vote and found that I also scored Sebastian a 5.0 so I can say with certainty that Louis's mark was absolutely correct
Why did I not score it a 6.0 - well, lots of reasons really. I always dock marks for lots of faffing about. In this case a lot of them fell foul of that by doing stuff off the ice, Sebastian falls into that category. I don't think his personal trademark moves from his freerunning are particularly graceful and they just seem completely out of place in an ice dance performance. I don't see much of a connection with his partner and a lot of the moves seem quite disjointed...in fact 5.0 all of a sudden is seeming quite generous.
I think Sebastien's performances are going to be very marmite judging from the comments on here - you are either going to get him or you're not & Louie falls into the latter camp.
I think he's great and I like he brings something different to the show. I really enjoyed his performance and thought it was quite moving. Looking forward to seeing what he & Bri do in the coming weeks.
I think he's great and I like he brings something different to the show. I really enjoyed his performance and thought it was quite moving. Looking forward to seeing what he & Bri do in the coming weeks.
Originally Posted by Tiger Rose:
“I think Sebastien's performances are going to be very marmite judging from the comments on here - you are either going to get him or you're not & Louie falls into the latter camp.”
“I think Sebastien's performances are going to be very marmite judging from the comments on here - you are either going to get him or you're not & Louie falls into the latter camp.”
That's fine for members of the public viewing from the comfort of their arm-chairs. Someone on the panel, who is supposed to be an expert in performance should be open to appreciating different styles.
One of the great things about Dancing on Ice and Chris and Jayne's choreography is the variety, and their ability to interpret very different types of music through different forms of dancing. It is a serious flaw if the supposed dancing judge only rates styles that look like they come from "A Chorus Line". I'm sure Chris and Jayne will continue to do their own thing, especially as it seems Robin, and especially Katerina are more open to different styles, but it might unnerve some of the contestants.
Originally Posted by *Sparkle*:
“It was almost as if he felt threatened by him. Louie is a successful, trained dancer, but Sebastien is also a professional dancer and even though he's not had formal training, he's the one who was in a Madonna video and went on tour with her.
It may be that Louie is a bit overly obsessed with "precision", and values that over the more spirited performances with character, as given by Sebastien, and even Andy last week. It will be a shame if he places too much emphasis on just one part of dance, which is an even smaller part of performance, but maybe he just needs to get it off of his chest. People like Robin and Katerina also judge performance, but Katerina in particular seems to have a very different opinion of what makes for a good performance.”
“It was almost as if he felt threatened by him. Louie is a successful, trained dancer, but Sebastien is also a professional dancer and even though he's not had formal training, he's the one who was in a Madonna video and went on tour with her.
It may be that Louie is a bit overly obsessed with "precision", and values that over the more spirited performances with character, as given by Sebastien, and even Andy last week. It will be a shame if he places too much emphasis on just one part of dance, which is an even smaller part of performance, but maybe he just needs to get it off of his chest. People like Robin and Katerina also judge performance, but Katerina in particular seems to have a very different opinion of what makes for a good performance.”
Katerina would have a different opinion on performance because she was always marked for her great artistry on the ice rather that her technical ability. During her day there were many more technically gifted skaters, but they lacked the artistry and elegance of Katrina.
Originally Posted by *Sparkle*:
“That's fine for members of the public viewing from the comfort of their arm-chairs. Someone on the panel, who is supposed to be an expert in performance should be open to appreciating different styles.
One of the great things about Dancing on Ice and Chris and Jayne's choreography is the variety, and their ability to interpret very different types of music through different forms of dancing. It is a serious flaw if the supposed dancing judge only rates styles that look like they come from "A Chorus Line". I'm sure Chris and Jayne will continue to do their own thing, especially as it seems Robin, and especially Katerina are more open to different styles, but it might unnerve some of the contestants.”
“That's fine for members of the public viewing from the comfort of their arm-chairs. Someone on the panel, who is supposed to be an expert in performance should be open to appreciating different styles.
One of the great things about Dancing on Ice and Chris and Jayne's choreography is the variety, and their ability to interpret very different types of music through different forms of dancing. It is a serious flaw if the supposed dancing judge only rates styles that look like they come from "A Chorus Line". I'm sure Chris and Jayne will continue to do their own thing, especially as it seems Robin, and especially Katerina are more open to different styles, but it might unnerve some of the contestants.”
I think Louis is open to different styles - for me I thought Sebastian exuded no form of emotion whatsoever. I get it was a downbeat song - however downbeat does not equate to no emotion at all.
I think Seb could be fantastic - but I dont think he has the personality to pull it off
Originally Posted by *Sparkle*:
“That's fine for members of the public viewing from the comfort of their arm-chairs. Someone on the panel, who is supposed to be an expert in performance should be open to appreciating different styles.
One of the great things about Dancing on Ice and Chris and Jayne's choreography is the variety, and their ability to interpret very different types of music through different forms of dancing. It is a serious flaw if the supposed dancing judge only rates styles that look like they come from "A Chorus Line". I'm sure Chris and Jayne will continue to do their own thing, especially as it seems Robin, and especially Katerina are more open to different styles, but it might unnerve some of the contestants.”
“That's fine for members of the public viewing from the comfort of their arm-chairs. Someone on the panel, who is supposed to be an expert in performance should be open to appreciating different styles.
One of the great things about Dancing on Ice and Chris and Jayne's choreography is the variety, and their ability to interpret very different types of music through different forms of dancing. It is a serious flaw if the supposed dancing judge only rates styles that look like they come from "A Chorus Line". I'm sure Chris and Jayne will continue to do their own thing, especially as it seems Robin, and especially Katerina are more open to different styles, but it might unnerve some of the contestants.”
I can't disagree with this at all. I do think there will always be an element of bias though. My biggest gripe with Louis though is his obsession with arms not just in his comments but also in his marking. He seems to ignore the feet too much hence his ridiculous mark for Matthew & Nina.
Originally Posted by yohinnchild:
“I think Louis is open to different styles - for me I thought Sebastian exuded no form of emotion whatsoever. I get it was a downbeat song - however downbeat does not equate to no emotion at all.
I think Seb could be fantastic - but I dont think he has the personality to pull it off”
“I think Louis is open to different styles - for me I thought Sebastian exuded no form of emotion whatsoever. I get it was a downbeat song - however downbeat does not equate to no emotion at all.
I think Seb could be fantastic - but I dont think he has the personality to pull it off”
It's not just that it's a "downbeat song". The song's opening verse includes the repeated phrase "no expression, no expression" when talking about the faces around him. When you combine that with the use of masks in the opening sequence, and projected onto the ice during the whole programme, it was a mistake to assume that Sebastien's lack of expression was a weakness in the execution of the programme.
Criticism of his "exuding no emotion" is akin to criticising him for the successful execution of the choreography.
Essentially, Sebastian (and Chris, Jayne and the others involved with the choreography choices) interpreted the song perfectly reasonably, but even when Seb tried to explain that it was deliberate, Louie wouldn't listen, and just told him he had to show "more emotion". It was pretty ignorant of him to dig his heels in like that.
Originally Posted by *Sparkle*:
“It's not just that it's a "downbeat song". The song's opening verse includes the repeated phrase "no expression, no expression" when talking about the faces around him. When you combine that with the use of masks in the opening sequence, and projected onto the ice during the whole programme, it was a mistake to assume that Sebastien's lack of expression was a weakness in the execution of the programme.
Criticism of his "exuding no emotion" is akin to criticising him for the successful execution of the choreography.
Essentially, Sebastian (and Chris, Jayne and the others involved with the choreography choices) interpreted the song perfectly reasonably, but even when Seb tried to explain that it was deliberate, Louie wouldn't listen, and just told him he had to show "more emotion". It was pretty ignorant of him to dig his heels in like that.”
“It's not just that it's a "downbeat song". The song's opening verse includes the repeated phrase "no expression, no expression" when talking about the faces around him. When you combine that with the use of masks in the opening sequence, and projected onto the ice during the whole programme, it was a mistake to assume that Sebastien's lack of expression was a weakness in the execution of the programme.
Criticism of his "exuding no emotion" is akin to criticising him for the successful execution of the choreography.
Essentially, Sebastian (and Chris, Jayne and the others involved with the choreography choices) interpreted the song perfectly reasonably, but even when Seb tried to explain that it was deliberate, Louie wouldn't listen, and just told him he had to show "more emotion". It was pretty ignorant of him to dig his heels in like that.”
I wish Chris had pointed the lyrics out - they had obviously told Sebastien to portray it that way. Or didn't he want Louie to feel shown up (he couldn't have listened to the lyrics)
2 of 2
