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Say goodbye to truly unlimited data on Giffgaff


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Old 15-01-2012, 20:11
Thine Wonk
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http://www.telecoms.com/38467/the-bigger-they-are/

MVNO Giffgaff is taking a hard line approach to users that it feels are taking the Michael. The organisation, which piggybacks on the O2 network, discovered that less than one per cent of its customers are accounting for over a third of its total mobile internet data use across its entire network. “The way in which these users are using their data is simply not economically sustainable for us – both in the cost of the data they are using, and in the business time spent on investigating and working with these cases,” the company said.

Those users who have been found to be among the one per cent responsible for the heavy data usage will first have a data bar imposed upon them, which they may elect to have removed. A second offence will result in termination of the service completely.
http://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/01/11/...d-of-its-data/
UK mobile operator Giffgaff has been forced to apply its new data usage rules against a small number of its customers after it identified that 1% of its subscribers were utilising more than a third of total data transfers.

Some users are finding that their data connectivity has been pulled as a result of their excessive use but are finding that GiffGaff will give them one more chance. If they continue to download large amounts of data (the limit of which is unknown), then they ”will permanently remove Internet access with no exceptions”.

GiffGaff, a carrier that has branded itself as the first “People Powered” mobile phone network, operates at a low cost base without handset subsidies and the overheads of opening high street stores, passing the reduced costs onto its customers, offering unlimited data alongside its “goody-bag” tariffs.

However, after it found that some of its users were hammering its networks, the company moved to amend its terms and conditions in December in order to disconnect the most heavy data users that were impacting the usage of its other customers.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01...aff_unlimited/
People-powered mobile phone network GiffGaff is debating how best to curb excessive data use, while kicking off a few customers considered to be really taking the biscuit.

GiffGaff has always offered unlimited data with its "goody-bag" tariffs, which start at a tenner a month, and unlike competing networks it has never imposed any kind of cap or fair-use limit. But in December it changed its terms and conditions to allow disconnection of heavy data users, and has now started applying those new rules.
Thoughts?... My thoughts, don't sell it as unlimited and tell people how much they can use, rather than leave them guessing whether they are going to be disconnected.

They attracted the heavy users by advertising unlimited for a tenner. I've been warning for a long time here that this was unsustainable for such a small monthly fee.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:23
Darth-Habib
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I wonder what the stats are for those on 3?

I wonder if 3 would pull a similar trick?
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:30
Thine Wonk
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Maybe, time will tell. I've seen quite a few boasting on GG about how much data they use in a month, seems like they won't be able to anymore.

I can't see a case for using more than 5GB a month really, so most users won't have to worry. If you are trying to tether and use it for big downloads though your days are numbered. Sound like they are fed up of the time it takes to investigate users who abuse the service, so are just cutting off the high users data.

The frustrating thing is that they won't say what you can use though, and the fact they are selling it as unlimited when it's not.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:32
tghe-retford
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They attracted the heavy users by advertising unlimited for a tenner. I've been warning for a long time here that this was unsustainable for such a small monthly fee.
I've seen quotes from one broadband site that £80 a month needs to be charged for unlimited broadband to be sustainable on a landline service, probably more than that for the lesser sustainable mobile networks. Sadly the website that stated that is no longer online.

That would also mean 3's "All You Can Eat" plans from £15 are also unsustainable, as would anything even capped above 1GB. That's a major problem with smartphones becoming more data hungry, and limiting them to Wi-Fi only would defeat a lot of the purpose of owning a smartphone.

The whole industry is going to have to face some difficult questions, upgrading the capacity will increase prices but are people willing to pay extra tens of pounds a month to invest in it, with 4G forthcoming, will the mobile networks even want to, considering they'll need as much money as possible to bid for 4G licences.

This could get very messy, and I fear it'll be all but the most flush customers who'll lose out.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:32
psionic
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Some people really take the piss though, and end up ruining it for everyone.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:35
Thine Wonk
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I've seen quotes from one broadband site that £80 a month needs to be charged for unlimited broadband to be sustainable on a landline service, probably more than that for the lesser sustainable mobile networks. Sadly the website that stated that is no longer online.
Probably because it's out of date / rubbish. Most ISPs peer with the main providers which means their bandwidth is very cheap, a minimal amount of data goes out of transit links. Bandwith has got cheaper and cheaper as data usage has gone up, that figure sounds rubbish.

It doesn't take into account that I'm sure I read that the average unlimited smartphone user uses just 1GB a month.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:43
tghe-retford
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Probably because it's out of date / rubbish. Most ISPs peer with the main providers which means their bandwidth is very cheap, a minimal amount of data goes out of transit links. Bandwith has got cheaper and cheaper as data usage has gone up, that figure sounds rubbish.

It doesn't take into account that I'm sure I read that the average unlimited smartphone user uses just 1GB a month.
To be fair, it was from a few years ago as the 8Mbps services were starting to be rolled out and cheap unlimited broadband services were also rolling out, with experts stating that such services would be unsustainable. Then the caps, throttling and price rises kicked in. It was also one of the most respected user written broadband websites, quoted by several ISP/broadband discussion websites (I was a member of one of them when I was with Fast4 and all the problems that came with that) so far from being rubbish.

I fear we are seeing the same cycle with mobile internet and it's going to be the customer who doesn't or cannot afford to pay handsomely who will lose out.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:48
Thine Wonk
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It might have been this from 2008:

http://community.plus.net/blog/2008/...t-of-ipstream/

However I think with the prices of bandwidth dropping so much and peering becoming so common those prices are way out for 2012, although the point may still be relevant.
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Old 15-01-2012, 20:54
tghe-retford
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It might have been this from 2008:

http://community.plus.net/blog/2008/...t-of-ipstream/

However I think with the prices of bandwidth dropping so much and peering becoming so common those prices are way out for 2012, although the point may still be relevant.
Similar, but not the same site. That one actually has a higher per month estimate. Also worth noting that its going to be more expensive to provide data via the mobile network than via landline, even with any reduction in data costs since 2008.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:00
pixel_pixel
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So how much are the 1% using? It would be nice if there were some figures.

Wherever something is unlimited someone will abuse it. They should know this. Have they ever seen Pizza Hut at Buffet Lunch time?! People take whole pizzas and then go back for more and more.

Do they really have someone investigating each person? I can't believe that there is not an automated system for this.

I have little sympathy for GiffGaff. They should not offer something that they can not fulfil. Or put some sort of rules in place. I can understand if someone is tethering it to a tower block or something, that is unfair. I would like to know how they are using the data.

Customers are only going to demand more and more data.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:03
radiosgalore
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it just goes to show how far behind UK phone networks are. If phones that can stream TV are common then the networks should be able to cope. Same thing for dongles also working off the phone network
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:04
Thine Wonk
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Similar, but not the same site. That one actually has a higher per month estimate. Also worth noting that its going to be more expensive to provide data via the mobile network than via landline, even with any reduction in data costs since 2008.
No because they are quoting Ipstream, which is the ISP paying BT to provide the service effectively, the line, everything they were really just the reseller / biller.

The only bit that is relevant to mobile companies is the transit and peering bandwidth, peering being very cheap as the networks peer with google, BBC, skype etc and all the main sources of data, which makes it virtually free, some transit they have to pay for, but that has gone down in price a lot since 2008.

They say "We estimate that our transit and peering costs (based on the capacity of our central pipes) equates to around £20 per Mbps per month."

That's 1Mbps constant use, and back in 2008 before peering became bigger and before bandwidth costs dropped a lot.

Of course the networks will have their own infrastructure costs too.

Remember the vast majority of unlimited users don't consume a lot of data, but I think GG just set the bar too low at £10 a month for unlimited.

They just need to stop selling it as unlimited now.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:08
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There you go, I have said a few times that this unlimited data will not last and been proved right.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:11
radiosgalore
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There you go, I have said a few times that this unlimited data will not last and been proved right.
hehe it still does if you know what your doing. I watch TV episodes from Hulu on my dongle.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:13
Thine Wonk
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hehe it still does if you know what your doing. I watch TV episodes from Hulu on my dongle.
How do you know, Giffgaff have only just announced they are going to disconnect high users? You can't trick the network when it comes to high usage.

People were trying to mess them about with tethering and costing them too much money investigating people abusing the network, so they have effectively canned the unlimited and will disconnect high users automatically, saving them time and money.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:21
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The companies have only themselves to blame. They offer people unlimited data, people are going to rightly assume that is without limits. They should have said 3gb limit which I and most people would have found a good deal still. The Germans don't say on their motorways that don't have speed limits that they will stop you if you do over 100 do they.


PJ
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:25
radiosgalore
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How do you know, Giffgaff have only just announced they are going to disconnect high users? You can't trick the network when it comes to high usage.
oh? hmmm then how come my T-mobile connection manager shows 13.884 GB transferred since the first of the month and I have full streaming capabilities? Oh and a U.S only Geo-locked website such as Hulu works a treat here in the UK? I'm guessing most networks operate the same technologically when imposing restrictions.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:32
wilt
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oh? hmmm then how come my T-mobile connection manager shows 13.884 GB transferred since the first of the month and I have full streaming capabilities? Oh and a U.S only Geo-locked website such as Hulu works a treat here in the UK? I'm guessing most networks operate the same technologically when imposing restrictions.
Obviously if you're using a VPN they aren't going to be able to see what you're doing. However, they do know you're using a VPN and that you're not connecting to the network using a mobile phone.

I'm not familiar with the T-Mobile T&Cs but if you're using a handset plan which prohibits dongle use then I would expect you'll be picked up as soon as you become a nuisance to T-Mobile.

If they don't say anything in the T&Cs about using your sim in a dongle then there's not much they can do about it, but I suspect they'll close that loophole sooner or later.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:37
Thine Wonk
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Absolutely, they won't be able to tell what you doing on the VPN, but they will know how much data you have used. If they decide to they could block you, but nobody is monitored individually, they just run reports and see who they highest users are and disconnect them.

T-mobile may have a different policy, but it's bye bye to 1% of GiffGaffers by the looks of it.
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Old 15-01-2012, 21:59
Thine Wonk
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So from April Giffgaff will have to stop using the term unlimited as the ASA has introduced new guidelines which which come into force from April which say “’unlimited’ can only be used if the customer incurs no additional charge or suspension of service as a consequence of exceeding a usage”.
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Old 15-01-2012, 22:01
googleking
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Fine, but the networks all need to stop this "unlimited internet" mis-advertising nonsense if that's not what they are truly providing.
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Old 15-01-2012, 22:22
pixel_pixel
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it just goes to show how far behind UK phone networks are. If phones that can stream TV are common then the networks should be able to cope. Same thing for dongles also working off the phone network
Well Three manage to do an All You Can Eat data allowance.
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Old 15-01-2012, 22:30
The Lord Lucan
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Fine, but the networks all need to stop this "unlimited internet" mis-advertising nonsense if that's not what they are truly providing.
Which networks are mis-advertising just now?
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Old 15-01-2012, 22:37
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1% using a third of their data is taking the pee. They started booting people off last month so nothing new here, its been talked about here before. Lets hope they ban other selfish buggers who are ruining a good deal by tethering and using VPN's; in reality they are nothing but cheats and thieves with no moral code.

GG should cap at 3-5GB for phones, thats more than enough. Even capped at that the £10 a month is pretty much an unbeatable deal, I'm more than happy with that

Its about time the providers started sharing details of these cheats, these low life criminals and blacklisting their phones.
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Old 15-01-2012, 22:46
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I use both networks 3uk and Giffgaff. Got to be honest I've been on Giffgaff almost since day one and to be honest if they're still in business this time next year I'll be amazed.

Giffgaff members can post their URL afiliate link so people can order some simcards and upon activation the new simcards gets £5 credit and the person who's affiliate link it was order from gets 500 points=£5. However you can only order 30 simcards in a Calander month. Some people bulk order simcards for spamming purposes and the innocent member who's URL it was ordered from gets docked the points if they think there your simcards were used in spamming. It happened to my Mrs and she was not a happy bunny.

There's been loads of problems with people tethering with their handsets instead of buying a Gigabag as the data in the Gigabag is crap compared to the alleged unlimited data. And there seems to be delays in releasing a Blackberry add on too it was supposed to been out in the middle of November but when RIM's servers went down on October Giffgaff got behind in the testing. We're now into 2012 and it's still not been released.

The 3G coverage on Giffgaff is shocking as it uses 02's transmitters.

As I said before if Giffgaff are still in business this time next year I'll be very surprised.
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