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Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)


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Old 23-01-2012, 23:47
Sniffle774
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Final figure for the third Sherlock just posted by BARB - 9.78 million
Good grief, awesome.
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Old 24-01-2012, 11:55
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A few thoughts on watching it back...

We all seem stumped by the IOU.
Knowing Moffat's DW work well, he puts his best metaphoric and cryptic clues to the biggest mysteries at the beginning and end of episodes.
In the graveyard scene in Watson's last speech he says "I was so alone, and I owe you so much." It's got to be a clue.

People have mentioned the direct contact with the assassins before they get shot but its only after he says "thank-you" each time that they are shot. Moriarty included.
Is "thank-you" a codeword ? Is this the out of character thing we've missed ? It is drawn attention to at the beginning on receipt of the cuffs; "You're supposed to say thank-you"

"Molly, I think I'm going to die." Was Sherlock actually dying ? Did Moriarty slip a slow poison or contagion into his tea ?
Remember the microscope view of active bacteria that didn't form part of the Chalk, Asphalt etc. conclusion. We have people killed after direct contact and thank-you.
We also have "I repel you". Knowing Moffat & Gatiss's love of cryptic, the answer to this, if a crossword clue, would be ...leper.
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Old 24-01-2012, 12:48
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Right, can everyone stop posting on this thread, because all these theories are making my head spin! Instead of putting it out of my mind, I'm thinking about it more and more, and coming to increasingly bizarre conclusions!

Seriously, though, I rewatched the episode last night, this time with the deliberate preconception that Sherlock knew exactly what was happening from the start, and was one step ahead of Moriarty, instead of one step behind.

Even then, it still seemed to me that it came as a shock to him that the code was a fake. And Moriarty's suicide was also a shock, seemingly.

Points I noted -

It was out of character for Sherlock to phone John rather than text - still, it was an unusual situation.

John couldn't actually see it was Sherlock on the roof - just a silhouette - and we only see someone jumping from the back. Was it Sherlock? (Perhaps Molly volunteered to jump? No, perhaps not)

Were the red seals significant? I didn't get a close look at them. Seems a bit odd to use a seal nowadays. (I expect to get an e-mail from Moffat for this one - I'm sure no one else has mentioned them)

Did Sherlock deliberately shake the assassins hand to get him shot? If he did know what was happening he might have - it seems out of character to me that he would have shook his hand.

It seems odd that Sherlock didn't check that Moriarty was dead - especially if he were planning his own fake death. Surely he would be more suspicious?

And I am sure the IOU/ "I am you" stuff is very signifiant.

So I still have loads of questions but no answers. Is Moffat open to bribes, do you think? Or perhaps I could ask him round for tea and administer a truth drug - oh, hang on - did Sherlock....? no, probably not.
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Old 24-01-2012, 12:53
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We all seem stumped by the IOU.
I don't think I am. It starts appearing at key points when Scherlock's life is being made hell by Moriarty's campaign. It's simply a way of constantly reminding Sherlock that Moriarty is behind all of what's happening to him and is meant to demoralise him to a point where he can be persuaded to kill himself in addition to the threat against his friends. It's designed to make him lose the will to fight back and do something outrageous, like for instance fake his own death.

Perhaps it won't be explained in which case the above is an unproven theory. Perhaps it will and the validity of the above will be tested. In either case the only thing "stumping" anyone is that we haven't seen the next episode so can only speculate.
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Old 24-01-2012, 13:14
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"I am you" stuff is very signifiant.
I thought that was another part of the playing mind games. Mycroft, in a prior episode, commented on how he and Sherlock were different from other people. That may have been true at one point but this is where I'd argue that Sherlock is, ever so slightly, being socialised through contact with John. Moriarty is a self styled genius who thinks of "normal" people as playthings and in "A Study in Pink" it's claimed was behind the scheme that led to people force into a situation where they took their own lives.
The "I am you" bit is about somehow persuading Sherlock that they're similar souls who can never properly fit in with the rest of the world. And if that is so then if Moriarty is a suicidally bored as he claims then that must mean that Holmes is too. Doesn't quite gel with Holmes having friends but no matter Moriarty is going to have them killed. Of course Moriarty has already had Holmes in a position where he could have killed him. And now he could do so but that doesn't give him what he wants which is to somehow prove himself Holmes' superior.
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Old 24-01-2012, 13:54
Granny McSmith
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I thought that was another part of the playing mind games. Mycroft, in a prior episode, commented on how he and Sherlock were different from other people. That may have been true at one point but this is where I'd argue that Sherlock is, ever so slightly, being socialised through contact with John. Moriarty is a self styled genius who thinks of "normal" people as playthings and in "A Study in Pink" it's claimed was behind the scheme that led to people force into a situation where they took their own lives.
The "I am you" bit is about somehow persuading Sherlock that they're similar souls who can never properly fit in with the rest of the world. And if that is so then if Moriarty is a suicidally bored as he claims then that must mean that Holmes is too. Doesn't quite gel with Holmes having friends but no matter Moriarty is going to have them killed. Of course Moriarty has already had Holmes in a position where he could have killed him. And now he could do so but that doesn't give him what he wants which is to somehow prove himself Holmes' superior.
This is all true, and relevant to the psychology of the characters in the episode, but I'm thinking of it more as a puzzle that the writers have presented that we can try and solve - I think some things have a deeper significance than is obvious. Or perhaps I'm just going round the twist!

Another thing I noticed in my rewatch - Sherlock is very careful to make Moriarty tell him how many and which of his friends are being targetted by the assassins. So he knows Molly and Mycroft are not - which means presumeably that he can go ahead with his fake suicide plan.
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Old 24-01-2012, 16:14
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[quote=HandsomeBB;56133641]A few thoughts on watching it back...


People have mentioned the direct contact with the assassins before they get shot but its only after he says "thank-you" each time that they are shot. Moriarty included.
Is "thank-you" a codeword ? Is this the out of character thing we've missed ? It is drawn attention to at the beginning on receipt of the cuffs; "You're supposed to say thank-you"

QUOTE]

I like this.
I like all the theories.
I liked all the DW theories too.

Trouble is the theories were better than the reveal..

Ok, enough, Leave it. This is Sherlock. Time i moved on..

Amalgamating several theories.
It has been noted that sherlock jumped in close up from a different roof than in the long shot.
The locations have been revealed earlier in this thread i think. Mentioned that this was merely for filming practicalities.
But, it's very possible that someone jumped into the laundry truck as we saw sherlock jumping - except his fall was onto a flat roof so he could race down to the pavement.
Probably he jumped earlier so he could knock john over..
I am as certain as canton that it most certainly was sherlock and he was, most certainly, dead.. Probably...
Then he was whisked away quick as poss while john was still slightly bewildered..
Trouble is what then would be the point of sherlock jumping at all if noone could see him and only see his stunt double on the real roof? And earlier when he's with Moriarty he looks over the edge and we see the pavement below..
Picking holes in my own thoughts now!
Hmm.. It's good fun to wring your brain out now and then. i think..
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Old 24-01-2012, 16:23
Granny McSmith
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[quote=jellyfish7;56139062]
A few thoughts on watching it back...


People have mentioned the direct contact with the assassins before they get shot but its only after he says "thank-you" each time that they are shot. Moriarty included.
Is "thank-you" a codeword ? Is this the out of character thing we've missed ? It is drawn attention to at the beginning on receipt of the cuffs; "You're supposed to say thank-you"

QUOTE]

I like this.
I like all the theories.
I liked all the DW theories too.

Trouble is the theories were better than the reveal..

Ok, enough, Leave it. This is Sherlock. Time i moved on..

Amalgamating several theories.
It has been noted that sherlock jumped in close up from a different roof than in the long shot.
The locations have been revealed earlier in this thread i think. Mentioned that this was merely for filming practicalities.
But, it's very possible that someone jumped into the laundry truck as we saw sherlock jumping - except his fall was onto a flat roof so he could race down to the pavement.
Probably he jumped earlier so he could knock john over..
I am as certain as canton that it most certainly was sherlock and he was, most certainly, dead.. Probably...
Then he was whisked away quick as poss while john was still slightly bewildered..
Trouble is what then would be the point of sherlock jumping at all if noone could see him and only see his stunt double on the real roof? And earlier when he's with Moriarty he looks over the edge and we see the pavement below..
Picking holes in my own thoughts now!
Hmm.. It's good fun to wring your brain out now and then. i think..
Not that certain, then!

As I said in my earlier post, we didn't actually see that it was Sherlock who jumped (I don't think.)

(Quote thingy seems a bit confused - sorry)
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Old 24-01-2012, 16:33
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Not read all the thread but have picked up on most of the theories.
Also not sure if this has been mentioned but if SH has faked his own death (obviously has) then why is he loitering around a public cemetary? And will have to travel there and back to where he is hiding out.

He's quite a public figure and it only needs one person with a camera phone to spoil the plan.
I mentioned that before. I assume that rather than have him in disguise, which in "reality" Holmes would have been the director decided to remove any ambiguity.
I think BC has many distinctive features that could have determined his identitiy if that was the case. A view of the eyes and a wink could suffice. Otherwise it was just brave or stupid on the part of SH.
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Old 24-01-2012, 16:56
Orri
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Otherwise it was just brave or stupid on the part of SH.

That aside, the question isn't should he have been in disguise or not. The real question is why was he there in the first place. Is it sentimentality in wanting to see Watson or is he keeping tabs on him in order to see if anyone else is?

That aside it's been fun but might be best not to get too attached to any theory in case the one chosen isn't our favorite, no matter how much better it is.
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Old 24-01-2012, 18:07
oceanic815
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Seriously, though, I rewatched the episode last night, this time with the deliberate preconception that Sherlock knew exactly what was happening from the start, and was one step ahead of Moriarty, instead of one step behind.

Even then, it still seemed to me that it came as a shock to him that the code was a fake. And Moriarty's suicide was also a shock, seemingly.
Yeah, I've thought about this too. But I still get the impression he was just about keeping up with Moriarty for most of the episode, although Moriarty still beat him- he burned him- and like you say, even though he managed to plan his own suicide, he missed the code thing, and did seem genuinely surprised that Moriarty shot himself.

It seems odd that Sherlock didn't check that Moriarty was dead - especially if he were planning his own fake death. Surely he would be more suspicious?
I'm with you on this as well... Moriarty is a mastermind, he could easily have faked his death, I'm surprised Sherlock didn't check.

And I'm sure it's been mentioned, but on the news report video on John's blog, they don't mention the death of Richard Brook or anything- just Sherlock.
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Old 24-01-2012, 18:25
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And I'm sure it's been mentioned, but on the news report video on John's blog, they don't mention the death of Richard Brook or anything- just Sherlock.
We did not see all of the news coverage obviously, so Rich Brook's death could have been relegated to an inside page of the newspaper.

However, Moriaty's body may not have been found officially - it would have been very convenient to bury it instead of Sherlock!
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Old 24-01-2012, 19:26
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Was Mycroft reading the same paper at the end that published Rich Brook's "story" (The Sun?). If Rich Brook's body had been found on the roof, surely that particular paper would have given it as equal coverage on the front page.
Would 'the authorities' go up to the roof after a suicide jump. Might the body (and Sherlock's phone) still be there, getting pecked to pieces by the birds, or given that the building housed the hospital morgue, it'd be the perfect place to hide Moriaty's body.
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Old 24-01-2012, 19:41
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I'm sure the CSI stuff is not as amazing as on tv but surely there would have been a crime scene team up there and when you come across a big pool of blood you don't just think that's a bit odd then move on.

There must have been investigations and the papers would have been all over it as SH was involved.
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Old 24-01-2012, 19:42
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I'm sure the CSI stuff is not as amazing as on tv but surely there would have been a crime scene team up there and when you come across a big pool of blood you don't just think that's a bit odd then move on.

There must have been investigations and the papers would have been all over it as SH was involved.
Unless Mycroft wanted it hushed up.
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Old 24-01-2012, 19:49
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Well if it turns out that Sherlock did for once ask for the help of his big bro and he's all powerful then I guess the writers can get away with many loop holes.
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Old 24-01-2012, 19:56
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Well if it turns out that Sherlock did for once ask for the help of his big bro and he's all powerful then I guess the writers can get away with many loop holes.
I'm not implying that Sherlock asked Mycroft for help. I just mean Mycroft might have wanted Moriarty's death (if he is dead) hushed up as a damage limitation excercise.
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Old 24-01-2012, 20:11
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If Moriarty faked his own death he'd have had to have used a gun with no bullets but what made the noise of the gun firing?
He could have used a bag of blood to fake the head injury but I don't think he did.
He's dead.
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Old 24-01-2012, 20:26
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Yeah, I've thought about this too. But I still get the impression he was just about keeping up with Moriarty for most of the episode, although Moriarty still beat him- he burned him- and like you say, even though he managed to plan his own suicide, he missed the code thing, and did seem genuinely surprised that Moriarty shot himself.



I'm with you on this as well... Moriarty is a mastermind, he could easily have faked his death, I'm surprised Sherlock didn't check.

And I'm sure it's been mentioned, but on the news report video on John's blog, they don't mention the death of Richard Brook or anything- just Sherlock.
But if the public believed the story that Sherlock was a fake, then this was the story. By comparison, Rich Brook was an irrlevance, just a bit of collateral damage in the whole Suicide-of-Sherlock-the-fake story. So he would be forgotten.
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Old 24-01-2012, 21:40
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But if the public believed the story that Sherlock was a fake, then this was the story. By comparison, Rich Brook was an irrlevance, just a bit of collateral damage in the whole Suicide-of-Sherlock-the-fake story. So he would be forgotten.
I think if Sherlock-the-fake had murdered the poor guy he hired to portray an enemy, it would be all over the news - murder-suicide is much 'juicier' than just suicide to the tabloids.

It will make his re-entrance that much easier too if he's not up on murder charges. The reporter might just assume 'Rich Brooks' got scared off that night and is in hiding.

I'm guessing Mycroft helped in the cover up and I wouldn't be surprised if we learn it's Moriarty's body in that grave.
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Old 24-01-2012, 21:55
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If Moriarty faked his own death he'd have had to have used a gun with no bullets but what made the noise of the gun firing?
He could have used a bag of blood to fake the head injury but I don't think he did.
He's dead.
It wasn't the gun that fired, it was a car back firing, and Moriaty was hit on the back of the head by a boomerang he'd thrown before Sherlock joined him on the roof. It then bounced off Moriaty's head and down the opposite side of the building from where Sherlock jumped.

Sherlock was so astonished that this had happened again, he never thought to check the body and jumped, knowing that no-one would believe him, except Irene, who as we know is also dead.
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Old 24-01-2012, 22:15
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Apologies if this has been said already. I agree that Sherlock jumped and landed somewhere soft and faked his death. I think the help from Molly was a drug that the (irregular) cyclist used on John so he didn't notice that Sherlock wasn't dead.

If they are sticking with ACD (and they've been very good at that so far) the Holmes has faked his death to destroy Moriarty's organisation and in particular Colonel Moran.
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Old 24-01-2012, 22:40
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I've said before...Sherlock fell on Molly, who sacrificed herself willingly. That's why we didn't see her at all afterwards.
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Old 25-01-2012, 01:09
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I've heard that Benedict has said on the DVD (I think) that he jumped from the roof(s).

Amazing Benedict, even does his own stunts. Oh, how I love that man!


I'm still not sure about these conversations between Sherlock and Moriarty, and all the IOU stuff. I'm not getting it tbh


I'm really hoping that Sherlock doesn't go supernatural in the next series.
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Old 25-01-2012, 01:15
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Apologies if this has been said already. I agree that Sherlock jumped and landed somewhere soft and faked his death. I think the help from Molly was a drug that the (irregular) cyclist used on John so he didn't notice that Sherlock wasn't dead.

If they are sticking with ACD (and they've been very good at that so far) the Holmes has faked his death to destroy Moriarty's organisation and in particular Colonel Moran.
I've watched that clip a number of times in slow motion () and it looks to me that the cyclist doesn't take his hands of the handlebars. I'd say the knocking John over was definitely deliberate, though.

Good one regarding Colonel Moran. We've not seen him yet. Or, have we??? Hmmm.
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