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Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)


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Old 06-01-2014, 02:02
Digital Sid
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Oh ok, here goes then:

I liked the programme because it teased with a lot of mysteries at the start - the bank robbery, the young soldier being spied upon and attempted murder, the major being targeted.
I really liked how Sherlock had to find a common thread connecting all the dots and finally working out how the two crimes were connected.

The sequence in the courtroom / chamber was excellent, clearly figments of his mind and showed how he works things out in an inquisitorial way.

The 'race against the clock' to discover the murderer at the wedding do was gripping and full of suspense.
It subverted last week's race against the clock story (the bomb) by revealing the attempted murder had long since been perpetrated by the photographer.

Aside from the mystery there were great forays into the characters with some classic exchanges between Sherlock and Mrs Hudson, and with Mycroft.
Sherlock's caring for his friend by interogating the ushers, exes etc was funny and endearing, as was the whole stag night scene, which again was a mixture of touching and very funny repartee.

It wasn't as good as last week's and I would liked to have seen the pace quicken at the start because we dwelt a little too long on the set-up. I'd say pacing is an area for improvement.

Happy?
They spent so long on the set up that they needn't have had the end of story character scenes, they'd done all of that most the episode.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:04
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Only the people that liked it? Is everyone else just a Moffat hater?
No, I said 'some'.
When you have pages of the same people moaning about one person, it's pretty obvious a cult of hatred for some of those involved, especially as the person they're complaining about was only one third of the team of authors who wrote the programme.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:06
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The pacing was completely off, there was so much show boating around it I worked it out ten minutes before Sherlock did.
I disagree, but well-done for working it out.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:07
Digital Sid
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No, I said 'some'.
When you have pages of the same people moaning about one person, it's pretty obvious a cult of hatred for some of those involved, especially as the person they're complaining about was only one third of the team of authors who wrote the programme.
But he is the main exec, and the main link to the other series, Doctor Who, which has recently been experiencing the same. It's pretty clear their shared troubles are down to him, the exec producer of both. That said Gatiss has always seemed like the bigger smug luvvie of the two. Moffat just seems to write what he thinks fans want, at the expense of what the real ones (those not on tumblr) actually want.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:09
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Quite. I like quality characters to tell a good and plotful story; on that premise, this series isn't working for me.

I came late to the first series, realised what I was missing and loved the second series. This one is a disappointment and in a 3-episode run, apparently using the 2nd episode to set up the third (if I'm understanding what some of the tiresome "in the know" posters are saying) is wasteful and self-indulgent. Particularly following an episode featuring a bomb with an off switch.
That's sort of how I feel.
Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty good and there's still much to enjoy. But in my opinion it's nowhere near the standard of the first two series.
I miss Moriarty already, or Richard Brooks if you like. Those scenes with Sherlock which were so magnificent and very edgy are possibly the glue which held it all together. Those scenes almost sold the tone of the show and what it was like back then.
The sense of urgency I felt that Sherlock needed to overcome Moriarty were probably key for me.
Unfortunately there's been nothing to really replace that important element this series.

Now the tone is very comedic, there hasn't been a strong antagonist which keeps that suspense and feeling of danger that Moriarty/Richard Brooks held over the show in the first two series.
Now it's very lightweight in comparison. The tension just isn't there now.
Still quite good, but falling well short of what it was.

Episodes like these last two I think would work so much better in a 6 episode run or longer. But 2 episodes out of a 3 episode series is pretty much your series gone. There's no more space left to have a few episodes which deliver the atmosphere of dark tension and brooding suspense which series one and two did so successfully. The series is all used up.

It was a powerful and compelling series before.
Now it's just entertaining, with one or two good set pieces. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you know what I mean when I say that it lacks a lot of the power that it used to have.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:13
Welsh-lad
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But he is the main exec, and the main link to the other series, Doctor Who, which has recently been experiencing the same.
I suppose it just gets boring. I'm a casual viewer of Dr Who, and I'm not keen on the way it's gone, but it seems people are bringing all their overweight baggage and bitterness about that show over to Sherlock now.

Wish people could discuss the programme instead of incessantly moaning about one of the authors.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:16
Digital Sid
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I suppose it just gets boring. I'm a casual viewer of Dr Who, and I'm not keen on the way it's gone, but it seems people are bringing all their overweight baggage and bitterness about that show over to Sherlock now.

Wish people could discuss the programme instead of incessantly moaning about one of the authors.
I actually wasn't going to mention Moffat at all until I realised while typing up my thoughts that these were also my current problems with Doctor Who. I think people are just frustrated, they've waited two years for a series of self-parodying in jokes, it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't just waited the same for a full series of Doctor Who, a series that just a few years ago was on 14 times a year with two spin-offs.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:21
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That's sort of how I feel.
Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty good and there's still much to enjoy. But in my opinion it's nowhere near the standard of the first two series.
I miss Moriarty already, or Richard Brooks if you like. Those scenes with Sherlock which were so magnificent and very edgy are possibly the glue which held it all together. Those scenes almost sold the tone of the show and what it was like back then.
The sense of urgency I felt that Sherlock needed to overcome Moriarty were probably key for me.
Unfortunately there's been nothing to really replace that important element this series.

Now the tone is very comedic, there hasn't been a strong antagonist which keeps that suspense and feeling of danger that Moriarty/Richard Brooks held over the show in the first two series.
Now it's very lightweight in comparison. The tension just isn't there now.
Still quite good, but falling well short of what it was.

Episodes like these last two I think would work so much better in a 6 episode run or longer. But 2 episodes out of a 3 episode series is pretty much your series gone. There's no more space left to have a few episodes which deliver the atmosphere of dark tension and brooding suspense which series one and two did so successfully. The series is all used up.

It was a powerful and compelling series before.
Now it's just entertaining, with one or two good set pieces. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you know what I mean when I say that it lacks a lot of the power that it used to have.
What tension was there in the episodes The Blind Banker or The Hounds of Baskerville then?

Did you even notice there was very clever subtle hints that foreshadowed and an element that tied into the main plot in this epiosde?
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:55
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Seems like I'm the only one who loved that episode? Thought it was clever, funny and emotional and tied them all in well. The whole 'here is a mystery - how does Sherlock solve it' would get very old very quickly if repeated week in week out - a bit of change is good.
Chance would be a fine thing.
I really wish it was week in week out.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:58
AlexiR
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Can I just ask you whether you have read any of the books or had any interaction with other incarnations of Sherlock Holmes?
Not that it matters in anyway but yes to both.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:07
Welsh-lad
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I actually wasn't going to mention Moffat at all until I realised while typing up my thoughts that these were also my current problems with Doctor Who. I think people are just frustrated, they've waited two years for a series of self-parodying in jokes, it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't just waited the same for a full series of Doctor Who, a series that just a few years ago was on 14 times a year with two spin-offs.
I guess I'm just willing to go with the flow and realise that emphasis will shift in some programmes and in the feel of some series. I likd that it doesn't always deliver what I was expecting.
This episode was clearly more about exploring the relationships between the characters, perhaps (who knows?) because the finalé might be about to blow them all apart.

Perhaps give next week a go, and if it's still frustrating, abandon it.
Few detractors have, I note, which suggests they like it more than they're letting on.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:08
ntscuser
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Is it me or did Molly seem different? She was more confident and not as awkward around Sherlock, well, I say not as - she wasn't really awkward around him at all. Telling him that she and Tom are having "lots of sex" especially surprised me.

Am I missing something here? Is she just using this new boyfriend of hers and telling Sherlock about the sex to try and make him jealous?
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:25
Alrightmate
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Twitter is much like many people on forums. Very noisy. Very opinionated. Very unaware that they don't speak for the nation. Unfortunately the media encourages them by now using Twitter as some way of gaging public opinion. When it does nothing of the sort. Alot of people shouting into the abyss and no ones listening.
I think I agree with that.
I believe that mainstream media itself for some reason believes that Twitter is so cool and modern and that everyone is into it so it represents everyone.

But I think I agree with you in that it doesn't represent the real world and the vast majority are quite possibly a relatively silent majority.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:29
Digital Sid
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I guess I'm just willing to go with the flow and realise that emphasis will shift in some programmes and in the feel of some series. I likd that it doesn't always deliver what I was expecting.
This episode was clearly more about exploring the relationships between the characters, perhaps (who knows?) because the finalé might be about to blow them all apart.

Perhaps give next week a go, and if it's still frustrating, abandon it.
Few detractors have, I note, which suggests they like it more than they're letting on.
As I said, I still like it for what it is, I'm not going to stop watching, but I'm disappointed knowing what it has the potential to be and has been. It's still in there, they haven't lost it, the bits that aren't fluff are still good, there's just not enough of them, there should be more of them than anything else, it's a crime show not a sitcom.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:35
Alrightmate
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I'm not sure. I'd expect the belt would have needed to be very tight to mask the pain, and the major would not be able to fasten his tightly.

As the show aired, I'd noticed that they had zoomed in on "belt action" for both soldiers and wondered if there was any sort of relevant link, but didn't see any beyond it was the same type of belt.
I did sort of guess the belt thing after a while when they kept showing belts being unbuttoned, but I guessed that the belt itself caused the injury.

I only guessed due to previous experience of being told that people who had been trapped by broken glass have died as soon as the glass was moved away from their body and the pressure relieved, after which they suddenly bled to death with all the glass suddenly turning pink.
So i reckoned it was something like that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:45
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Oh yes the negative posters are really well informed. Does that include those who didn't even watch the episode in question and those that admitted they were only 'half watching it'?
Well to defend the negative posters I have noticed that they do tend to illustrate exactly what they didn't like quite specifically. And I have noticed that many positive posts are a bit more vague, saying that they thoroughly enjoyed it in a general way, but not really going into as much detail.
I may be wrong but it just seems that way.
And no I'm not including anyone who has said that they didn't really watch it.

One thing which I liked a lot in this episode was the obligatory Sherlock thinking scene. Where he appears in a kind of court room in his mind. Very imaginative and one of the things the show still does very well. Sherlock thinking. In fact that is probably an aspect that has gradually developed and become more visual as the series have gone along.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:47
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I found it weird that Mary talked of skip codes last week and running someone this week. She's the medical receptionist at the surgery where John works, not an MI5 field agent. Or maybe that's exactly what she is. There is definitely more to her than meets the eye, any road.
Running did seem to be an odd word. She used it both with John and Sherlock.
Skipping and running? Is this a basis of a clue about something here?
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:54
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I still love it but it's getting a bit like the end of a Hustle episode - all the back and forth stuff
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:55
Alrightmate
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This series seems drawn out to be honest.

Instead of feeling like a series of films, it feels like plot that would barely fill a regular TV episode being unnecessarily stretched to 90 minutes.
That's true. In this short series of three one and a half hour episodes, they are the length of feature length films.
Yet there have been a lot of extended comedy sequences and character exchanges that have felt a bit on the flabby side. Which has made the plots appear thin compared to how you'd expect them to be fleshed out in a story which is the length of a film.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:57
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I thought it was a good episode. Interesting reading lots of critical opinions on it.
Too much padding in the middle for my liking however it was far from rubbish.

A good episode is still better than most rubbish on TV ATM in my opinion.
I agree that even an episode of Sherlock which is a bit crap by its own standards is still significantly better than most current television shows.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:01
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Did anybody recognise Dean Thomas (Harry Potter) in this episode? Alfie Enoch played the soldier - Bainbridge. What a fine young man he has turned out to be.

And another actor that got me wondering where I'd seen his face before: Major Sholto - Alistair Petrie, played Major Gordon in Cranford.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:03
Digital Sid
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Well to defend the negative posters I have noticed that they do tend to illustrate exactly what they didn't like quite specifically. And I have noticed that many positive posts are a bit more vague, saying that they thoroughly enjoyed it in a general way, but not really going into as much detail.
I may be wrong but it just seems that way.
And no I'm not including anyone who has said that they didn't really watch it.

One thing which I liked a lot in this episode was the obligatory Sherlock thinking scene. Where he appears in a kind of court room in his mind. Very imaginative and one of the things the show still does very well. Sherlock thinking. In fact that is probably an aspect that has gradually developed and become more visual as the series have gone along.
That was one thing I did love, the way they contrasted what he was actually doing with how he thought of and treated it, though I could have done without the comedy woman in red making every response a gag about how her relationship with him was a bit more casual. The rest just felt like one long nod to the 'feels' of the fan girls, it normally wouldn't bother me, the second episode is always a bit weak, but the first episode, while fun, was for it's actual crime element, pap as well. Thought at least that had the roof theories to make up for that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:11
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Decent effort tonight.

I'm enjoying this series more than the last.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:13
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I still love the series, but for me series three is not the same as the first two. It feels like a completely different show or that something is missing here; that was in the last two series. I am just can't put my finger on it.

This series very much centres on the development of the main characters rather than solving the cases, plus I find now that its a much slower paced show and more comedic than it previously was. It also seems to me, that the writers, are trying to show the more human side of Sherlock, whereas he was more of mystery in the last 2 series. Well, that is the way it felt to me when I was watching both tonight and last Sunday's episodes.

I am not sure whether I like this new route that the show is taking, I guess I will have to watch episode three before I make up my mind on that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:16
Digital Sid
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I still love the series, but for me series three is not the same as the first two. It feels like a completely diffferent show or soemthing. This series centres on the development of the main characters rather than solving the cases, plus its a much slower paced show and more comedic than it previously was. It also seems to me the writers, are trying to show the more human side of Sherlock, whereas he was more of mystery in the last 2 series. Well, that is the way it felt to me when I was watching both tonight and last Sunday's episodes. I am not sure whether I like this new route that the show is taking, I guess I will have to watch episode three before I make up my mind on that.
Let's hope it's brilliant and makes up for it, but it'll have to be extremely good after those two.
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