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Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)


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Old 06-01-2014, 15:17
fiveinabed
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Isn't it weird how reviews that agree with your views are always written by really insightful and intelligent reviewers whilst those that you don't agree with are always written by fawning sycophants or people who have lost their critical faculties.

It's such an odd coincidence isn't it?

Absolutely!
p.s. Nepotism exists in hundreds of publicly funded businesses - local authorities, councils, government, the monarchy etc etc. just saying.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:18
Will2911
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She seems fine in the role, my complaint is a wider BBC one in that nepotism seems rife there. My other example was Dan Snow, nice guy etc. but seems to have done very well on family connections.

Anyway, I don't wish to derail the thread any further. I'm still puzzled as to how no one felt themselves being stabbed!
Maybe they did, but put it down to a muscle cramp or twinge or an ache or so.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:18
Eater Sundae
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Was the bit at the start with the bank robbing gang getting off all created just to set up that one liner from Sherlock about the best man's speech?
A definite maybe. I think that's the case, but we might find a link in the next episode, or next series. i did think it odd that bearing in mind the problems LeStrade was having, that he hadn't already called Holmes in to help with the actual case.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:20
msfit
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Warning; 100 year old spoiler...

Spoiler

/end century old spoiler
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:20
FrankieFixer
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That was pretty much my point. They took a cliche and debunked it.
It was like some corny finale from the 1960s Batman shows. That and the recent 'delayed action stabbing' are well on the side of idiocy rather than ingenuity. Hope number 3 is better.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:20
Will2911
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A definite maybe. I think that's the case, but we might find a link in the next episode, or next series. i did think it odd that bearing in mind the problems LeStrade was having, that he hadn't already called Holmes in to help with the actual case.
For a lot of that case though Holmes was 'dead'
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:24
slouchingthatch
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Warning; 100 year old spoiler...

Spoiler

/end century old spoiler
Without getting too specific about your spoiler, I think that's outside of canon (for what that's worth).
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:34
Trsvis_Bickle
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Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I do like a lot of what Mark Lawson says.

I haven't watched much of the relaunched Dr Who, largely because it doesn't seem very accessible. When I picked up an episode on catch-up, there always seemed to be references to other episodes, that I hadn't seen. I even took to reading the Dr Who forum on here for information on what I was missing but it's full of hardcore fanboys who can't even seem to agree amongst themselves what the references mean.

Comments under the Guardian article are quite good - reasoned and articulate, for the most part.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:34
Belligerence
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She does die in the books. Bear in mind the order of stories is different, but basically:

First introduced in The Sign of Four, at the end of which Watson proposes to her. (She accepts.)

Wedding takes place off-camera (or off-book, as it were).

Makes fleeting appearances in a couple of the short stories (Watson has moved out of 221b at this point, I believe) - the Watsons have a good marriage, but like any real one it has its ups and downs.

Appears to have died between The Final Problem (Reichenbach Falls) and The Empty House (Sherlock's return). I say appears because the exact timeline is implied rather than explicit. Holmes consoles Watson on his bereavement in TEH, so she's definitely dead.)

Of course, there's nothing to say for sure whether the writers will stick strictly to canon and kill the TV version of Mary - or even when it will happen.

Hope that helps.
Brilliant, thanks for that summary.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:38
rachelgata
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The painless stabbings baffled me too, but suppose it's no worse than the explanations behind many of the crimes in crime fiction in general, not just this show.. You have to be prepared to suspend a lot of disbelief with Sherlock and I'm ok with that.

The daft stuff like the elephant in the room, complete with elephant trumpeting sound effects, was much less easy to swallow!
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:39
AlexiR
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They wouldn't do this, would they? So a totally silly point to make. And most actors *don't* have any connection to a show before they get the role. That's how it's supposed to work. The most talented get the role.

But of course the BBC isn't, and never has been, a meritocracy. It's always been rife with nepotism.

I can't believe there's some people actually defending this blatant nepotism that's being funded on the back our license fee.
Perhaps its not a case of people defending it rather that they simply don't care how someone got a role or a job just so long as they're good at it.

I'd also just suggest that its rather simplistic to argue that it should be the most talented actor who gets the role. In part because that's an incredibly subjective view point and also because sometimes the most talented actor isn't the right person for the role. I'd also point out that there's levels of nepotism to all casting regardless of how its done. There's no shortage of actors who have given terrible auditions but still gotten a part because producers or casting directors happen to like them or see something in them and fight for them. Equally there are just as many examples of actors who have read for one part but given something else without auditioning for it because producers happened to like what they were doing and thought they'd be better at it. Or indeed they'll read for one project but be asked to come and read for something else they wouldn't have otherwise been considered for because like them (Matt Smith originally auditioned for Moffat and the BBC for Watson but was asked to come back and read for Doctor Who despite being nothing like the original actor profile they'd had for that role). Then of course there's the issue of casting a star or a big name. They rarely, if ever, audition for roles in this day and age. At most they'll screen test but usually they'll just be offered a role. Often this is because broadcasters or those financing a projecting will insist on some kind of star name so its easier to sell the project. And none of this even touches on the fact that so much of casting is to do with who your agent is (and how much they like you), how much experience you have, if you have the right look, if a casting director likes you and many, many other things.

Casting isn't fair. Its never been fair and it never will be fair.

Also its frankly ludicrous to suggest that Sherlock or any other show should go through extensive casting process for every and any role just so that they can say they did. Its time consuming and somewhat expensive to do that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:40
Eater Sundae
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Going off topic though didn't Bruce meet Anthea Redfern on the show? If so that wasn't nepotism it was called knocking off your assistant
Even worse
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:45
Eater Sundae
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I liked the ep on first viewing, but was a trifle annoyed at it's shapeless start and what I saw as 'filler'.

But I've just watched it again. And it made me laugh my head off, and I was moved by the end. And I was much more satisfied with the middle.

It's not bad at all.

And I sort of love it, even if it's not quite the Sherlock we're used to.

I feel a great deal better. As it is, though not quite what we expect, it was huge fun, clever and delightful.
Does iplayer go off after a week?

I'd like to re-watch eps 1 & 2 again, but probably after 3. Can anyone tell me whether I'd still be able to watch episode 1 after 3 has aired. I'm not a regular user of iplayer, and I can't access it now to check. Thanks.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:47
planets
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Does iplayer go off after a week?

I'd like to re-watch eps 1 & 2 again, but probably after 3. Can anyone tell me whether I'd still be able to watch episode 1 after 3 has aired. I'm not a regular user of iplayer, and I can't access it now to check. Thanks.
just checked for you the first two are available until the 19th january
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:50
Doktor Dances
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As usual the Anti License fee crowd are looking for any excuse to attack dear old Auntie
I'm pro-licence fee, believe me. I defend the BBC against some of the most ridiculous attacks.

On Sherlock, and Moffat specifially, I'm less eager to fight back. I wonder if there is a link between frustration at the way in which Doctor Who has deteriorated and an increase in anti-licence fee sentiment?

Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:55
adams66
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Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
Nonsense.
Neither Sherlock, nor Doctor Who, are the responsibility of one man.
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:56
Will2911
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I'm pro-licence fee, believe me. I defend the BBC against some of the most ridiculous attacks.

On Sherlock, and Moffat specifially, I'm less eager to fight back. I wonder if there is a link between frustration at the way in which Doctor Who has deteriorated and an increase in anti-licence fee sentiment?

Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
Hmmm, yet your user name could be a reference to a Moffat penned episode of who. Not sure you've always hated him or are you going with a flavour of the month attack?
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Old 06-01-2014, 15:58
aggs
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It was like some corny finale from the 1960s Batman shows. That and the recent 'delayed action stabbing' are well on the side of idiocy rather than ingenuity. Hope number 3 is better.
Because being scared to death by a phosphorescent dog is so much more believable.

Detective fiction is always looking for new and slightly incredible ways for victims to be killed. ACD had a few in his time, as did Agatha Christie and Dorothy L Sayers.

It isn't enough just to stab someone, or shoot someone or doink someone on the head - that's just too real life normal.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:00
Granny McSmith
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I'm pro-licence fee, believe me. I defend the BBC against some of the most ridiculous attacks.

On Sherlock, and Moffat specifially, I'm less eager to fight back. I wonder if there is a link between frustration at the way in which Doctor Who has deteriorated and an increase in anti-licence fee sentiment?

Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
I doubt it. Not everyone who complains about the licence fee spends their time brooding about the deterioration of Doctor Who and Sherlock.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:01
bart4858
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You found what a constant distraction? And why? And how?
The fact that the actors behind Watson and Mary were also having a real-life relationship. You sort of kept wondering how much was acted and how much was real. And what they talked about when they got home...

... as I said it was a distraction, when I should have been paying attention to the plot.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:01
aggs
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I'm pro-licence fee, believe me. I defend the BBC against some of the most ridiculous attacks.

On Sherlock, and Moffat specifially, I'm less eager to fight back. I wonder if there is a link between frustration at the way in which Doctor Who has deteriorated and an increase in anti-licence fee sentiment?

Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
Well, it's difficult really isn't it - as Dr Who was the most watched programme over the Christmas period it would suggest that most licence payers are happy enough with it as it stands.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:02
aggs
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I doubt it. Not everyone who complains about the licence fee spends their time brooding about the deterioration of Doctor Who and Sherlock.
I think Eastenders seems to be the biggest bone of contention!
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:03
Vast_Girth
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Only one man is responsible for turning Doctor Who and Sherlock into fanfiction.
Seriously you should get over this obsession with Moffet. There are a lot more people involved than just him anyway and if you don't like it there is a very easy way of not letting it affect you any more - use that remote and change the channel. If you hate the man so much then ignore everything he does from now on and live a happier life.

The whinging keyboard warriors like you are very much in the minority anyway, as the viewing figures and general love for the programmes attest too. (divisive latest episode of Sherlock excluded of course).

Personally in Who i much prefer the more adult and complicated plots of moffet to the RTD era and whilst series 3 of sherlock is definitely the weakest so far, its still great TV and I'm hopeful it can be all bought together with a stonking final episode.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:04
adams66
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It isn't enough just to stab someone, or shoot someone or doink someone on the head - that's just too real life normal.
Brilliant - you used the word 'doink'. I've never heard anyone other than me use that word, and yet it's a wonderful, neatly descriptive word. Is it a 'real' word...? I don't know and I don't care, but it really deserves to be used more.
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Old 06-01-2014, 16:04
Eater Sundae
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I believe that the various alternative falls were newly filmed with series 3 and so they are, in fact, responses to the media reaction.
Do you know that for certain. I asked about this earlier as I wondered when they were filmed. They would have needed the same degree of access to the building as before.
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