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  • TV Shows: UK
Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)
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lolly-licker
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by fiveinabed:
“Absolutely!
p.s. Nepotism exists in hundreds of publicly funded businesses - local authorities, councils, government, the monarchy etc etc. just saying.”

Yeah, I have to agree with this, the job market today (particularly for recent graduates) is about who you know. Networking is as big a skill as anything else.
I was one of the first to think "oh no" when Amanda was cast, but I actually think she works really well, particularly given she already has some natural chemistry with Martin and Benedict, because they're all friends. It works well onscreen, in my opinion.
Bus Stop2012
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by The Wulfrunian:
“It's a lil bit scary how seriously some people take this programme. Dread to think what a specialist forum must be like if this thread is just dipping your toe in.”

It is, isn't it
Eater Sundae
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Some people were pretending it wasn't. We won't know if there was anyone better because none of them were going out with one of the stars so they couldn't get the role. Hollywood seems incestuous enough without it happening over here.”

Surely it could have been nepotism only if Martin Freeman were to cast her in the part. But he didn't.
Virgil Tracy
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by wildyounghearts:
“I do not accept suggestions that this is soap operabecause it dares to explore how the characters feel. it is not soap opera. There were none of the silly plot contrivances that blight soap weddings, there were no silly stumbling blocks, the wedding went off without a hitch. The Bridge and Groom are happy and seem well suited. Sherlock and the geusts are there to celebrate the day. There was no convoluted drama, no innapropriate emotion. I also don't see why it's a problem that it was very funny in parts, that's a sign of good writing.If you can't get any joy out of seeing Sherlock drunk, that's fine, but I enjoyed those scenes.”

actually there were plenty of plot contrivances , silly stumbling blocks , the wedding had various hitches , and there was convoluted drama .

about the only thing missing was the best man shagging the bridesmaid (and they almost did that too !)

.
bp2
06-01-2014
I enjoyed the recent episode even though I prefer plot driven stories.

As for Mary I suspected ever since it was announced she was appearing that she wouldn't be in series 4. I think she dies in the next episode and/or is blackmailed by Milverton so that she is working against Sherlock.
Eater Sundae
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by rachelgata:
“The painless stabbings baffled me too, but suppose it's no worse than the explanations behind many of the crimes in crime fiction in general, not just this show.. You have to be prepared to suspend a lot of disbelief with Sherlock and I'm ok with that.

The daft stuff like the elephant in the room, complete with elephant trumpeting sound effects, was much less easy to swallow!”

I assumed the elephant in the room was just to make a joke about the phrase, and never a "real" case that they would ever expect to use in the show. It was just a jokey way to say that they had a lot of varied cases.
Virgil Tracy
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“I enjoyed the recent episode even though I prefer plot driven stories.

As for Mary I suspected ever since it was announced she was appearing that she wouldn't be in series 4. I think she dies in the next episode and/or is blackmailed by Milverton so that she is working against Sherlock.”

is there gonna be a series 4 ? I would've thought Cumberbatch is gonna be even more busy the next coupla years.
Eater Sundae
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by planets:
“just checked for you the first two are available until the 19th january”

Thanks.
Joe_Zel
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Virgil Tracy:
“is there gonna be a series 4 ? I would've thought Cumberbatch is gonna be even more busy the next coupla years.”

I think Cumberbatch said that both he and Freeman were contracted for series 4 but it hadn't been commissioned yet. From what I remember anyway.

It's only 3 episodes every couple of years or so, I think he could manage it.
Eater Sundae
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by adams66:
“The alternative 'falls' were definitely filmed in April 2013 - see this report which shows both Derren Brown and Andrew Scott on set as well as the regular cast:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...Dr-Watson.html”

Thanks
aggs
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“I think Cumberbatch said that both he and Freeman were contracted for series 4 but it hadn't been commissioned yet. From what I remember anyway.

It's only 3 episodes every couple of years or so, I think he could manage it.”

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/ben...ng-that-25722/

Quote:
““We’ve agreed to two more series but I could get into trouble for saying that,” revealed Cumberbatch when asked about a fourth season. “All I know at the moment is I’m doing these three [episodes of the upcoming series] and another three.””

Fayecorgasm
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Was the bit at the start with the bank robbing gang getting off all created just to set up that one liner from Sherlock about the best man's speech?”

if they had fancied Judi Dench and Derek Jacobi for his parents and they had not auditioned would that have been ok?
FrankieFixer
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Fayecorgasm:
“if they had fancied Judi Dench and Derek Jacobi for his parents and they had not auditioned would that have been ok?”

Don't know what relation that has to what I said?
FrankieFixer
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“Surely it could have been nepotism only if Martin Freeman were to cast her in the part. But he didn't.”

1. favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power or influence

So yeah, nepotism. When you have casting that is so lazy then don't be too surprised when the finished article is below par.
Fayecorgasm
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Don't know what relation that has to what I said?”

Im not sureif it was you but I might have become confused but people have been saying its all nepotism that Benedict Cummerbatchs parents got the part and martin freemans mrs did and they didnt audition for it , Im just wondering if it woukld have been Ok had Judi Dench and Derek Jacobi got the part without auditioning and Olivia Coleman had been John Watsons wife and not had an audition ?
MissWalford
06-01-2014
She's not a bad actress that's the only positive thing I can say about her at the minute.
Sandgrownun
06-01-2014
Personally I don't think this series has been as good as previous ones. I've enjoyed the episodes, but they haven't felt like Sherlock somehow. And the crimes - a bomb with an off switch and a belt that stabs people and lets them walk around for hours without them feeling any pain... really?!

On the nepotism thing. The actress who plays Mary is very good in the role and is hardly an unknown so why would anyone care who her real life partner is (and I suspect some people who claim to care, wouldn't if this was ITV, Sky or and American show). Sherlock's parents were in one episode for about 2 minutes, hardly a huge role just an amusing aside that his and Mycroft's parents are so normal.
MissWalford
06-01-2014
I was just thinking, if Mary is all above board, I can definitely see Sherlock turning into the John and Mary show. We'll have Mary and her baby being kidnapped, and all attention focused on them. Sherlock will be asked to be the godfather, and we'll have a whole episode with him getting overwhelmed by it all, with John and Mary being shoved in our faces.
MissWalford
06-01-2014
I think they should have left it awhile longer before he got married, it's not like there have been many episodes of the series.
TRIPS
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by MissWalford:
“I think they should have left it awhile longer before he got married, it's not like there have been many episodes of the series.”

Maybe if they left it while then Watson would have not married her.know idea what she has to hide but have a feeling it's all going to end in tears.
Rhumbatugger
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by wildyounghearts:
“Ok. don't post here much anymore but jumping in here to say I though that episode was really great.I don't really understand a lot of the Moffat bashing and the nepotism allegations- Amanda Abbington was pretty great in ITV's Mr. Selfridge (as far as I knopw she'll be in series 2) and for me she's been great as Mary- the off screen stuff is of little interest to me.

I am borrowing this description for a review I read elsewhere but Sherlock is not a detective story, it's a story about a detective.

If you just want plot twists and a fancy procedureal this isn't the show for you. Those shows are fine, they wouldn't particularly interest me but some people will most definitely prefer them.If you are uncomfortable with exploring the relationship between the central characters (and I don't mean relationship in any romantic sense),or about seeing Sherlock express emotion,or deal with human emotions; if he must remain the character he was in episode 1 of the first series with no character development than this isn't the show for you. There are many good procedurals out there where the episodes can stand alone.

Sherlock is character driven, it is about the relationship between Sherlock and Watson, has been since the first episode. That is the story they have been telling all along. Yes, they are trying to solve mysteries and crimes but those plots are secondary to the relationship between the central characters. For me a truly great show is never plot driven because plot, plot twists, plot contrivances can only take you so far.Really great drama is character driven. It packs a punch becuase you know and care about the characters. If you don't care about the central relationship between Sherlock and Watson this episode won't interest you, I can see how you might find it boring. If all you want is a murder mystery, and not for the show to waste time on 'emotions' then again this isn't the show for you. If the only thing you can say after that 90 mins is 'I guessed it was the photographer before Sherlock' than congrats but that wasn't really what this episode was about, it wasn't a straight whodunnit.

If you do like character driven drama than it was wonderful. Being 'dead' for 2 years has changed Sherlock, he can do detached, smart, cocky show off no problem but what happens when you start to let people into your life and start to care about them than it changes you.The worst thing that could have happened in my view would be to have had Watson under-react to losing his best friend. Somebody coming back from the dead is not a small thing.This consequences of this should be explored onscreen.

Life and our life experiences change us. Mycroft still looks down on ordinary people but Sherlock is changing. He cares about Watson, therefore he wants to do right by him.To be his Best Man is so far out of his comfort zone it challenges how we see Sherlock. He's not as blindly dismissive of people as he was, he know respects Molly therefore he goes to her for help. It doesn't mean he's changed completely but it shows character growth. This is a great character exploration and last night's episode was a fantastic showcase for Benedict in particular.That final scene on the dancefloor was particualarly effective. For all the talk that nothing would chance between them, Watson's marriage does change things.

I do not accept suggestions that this is soap operabecause it dares to explore how the characters feel. it is not soap opera. There were none of the silly plot contrivances that blight soap weddings, there were no silly stumbling blocks, the wedding went off without a hitch. The Bridge and Groom are happy and seem well suited. Sherlock and the geusts are there to celebrate the day. There was no convoluted drama, no innapropriate emotion. I also don't see why it's a problem that it was very funny in parts, that's a sign of good writing.If you can't get any joy out of seeing Sherlock drunk, that's fine, but I enjoyed those scenes.

I think we won't fully be able to review this series until the end of next week's episode. Something shocking/dreadful is going to happen which has been the reason time has been spent on characterisation. I think people are too quick to judge. If you reviewed last week's epsiode on the basis of the first 5 mins you would be completely wrong. If you based your views on the first thirty mins of this episode you'd be wrong too.People were very quick to slate Moriarty on the basis of a cameo in season 1 but he turned out to be a fantastic villain and the Reichenbach Falls one of the best epsiodes.

So perhaps I might suggest we sit back and just let them tell the story they want to tell and see where Series three leaves us. Again, to borrow from something else I read online- there's something about Mary and I suspect next week we're about to find out.”

This is a great post.

Getting character development ALONG with a clever and interesting plot is the trick.

Because, as you say, detective procedurals are ten a penny, and fine in their own way, but limited.

Having watched both twice now, I feel happy about them. I think the 'plot' part will reassert itself somewhat, and that is important. However, the 'relationship' part is ALSO important, very important, and that's been focused on enough now, although it was essential that it WAS, to a serious degree, in order to reassert 'Sherlock' as 'drama', as MORE than just a procedure show.

It's a balance that won't ever be 'right' for many people, but it must be attempted. After all, we love the plots, but it's the CHARACTERS that we are captivated by, and their influence, and also their development, is therefore hugely important.
Alrightmate
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“The evidence is that co-lead Martin Freeman's real life partner is playing his on screen partner. And Cumberbatch's real life parents played his on screen parents.

If people choose to view that as a jolly coincidence there's little I can say to persuade them otherwise.”

What was it that Mycroft said in the episode about the universe and coincidence?

Nepotism or not from that quote from Amanda a couple of pages back I think I like her. Not a hint of arrogance and a completely honest account of how she obtained the part.
Alrightmate
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by Straker:
“Watchable but played far too much for laughs. The last ep next week had better drag it back to case-solving drama rather than fluff like last night.”

I think it will.
So far I'd have to put it down as the worst series so far no matter what the final episode is like. If it had more episodes it would have a bit of time to redeem itself.

However apparently Stephen Moffat is writing the final episode and I think the chances are that it will be very good. The trailer for the episode already makes it look more like Sherlock how it usually is.

It may be the worst series, but the final episode could well be one of the best episodes.
wuffles
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by MissWalford:
“I was just thinking, if Mary is all above board, I can definitely see Sherlock turning into the John and Mary show. We'll have Mary and her baby being kidnapped, and all attention focused on them. Sherlock will be asked to be the godfather, and we'll have a whole episode with him getting overwhelmed by it all, with John and Mary being shoved in our faces. ”

I don't think she is entirely above board. Why else would they have Sherlock assessing her as a liar if there isn't something a bit suspect going on?
Alrightmate
06-01-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“That's what had me scratching my head, if a teeny paper cut can be so absolutely agonising how the hell would you not notice being stabbed by a metal rod, no matter how slim?”

What also doesn't make sense is that if the belt is supposed to act as a tourniquet, wouldn't the pressure actually force blood through the hole that is made?
Because it's not actually cutting the blood supply off at a point, like if you tied off your upper leg you could prevent bleeding from your lower leg, it is located at the actually point of the piercing so would be squeezing blood out.

What's more, if it was tight enough to act as a tourniquet would it have to be so tight that it would prevent the wearer from being comfortable breathing and make them think they need to loosen their belt or take it off?
Just wearing a belt normally isn't going to make the belt as a tourniquet.
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