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Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)
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Granny McSmith
03-02-2012
Originally Posted by nethwen:
“There's such a lot of interesting theories and observations regarding Sherlock's fall in these threads thus far that I'm intrigued to find out if any FMs have got it right.

Alas! We have such a long wait to find out the solution. I'm having Sherlock withdrawal symptoms already.

Think I might go and watch the final episode... again!”

It's been great reading all the theories on here.

I never noticed any of the things posters have pointed out, I'm so unobservant, and it's given me pointers about how Sherlock may have fixed it.

But, knowing Moff, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the answer, when it comes, is something no one has thought of!

I too am in withdrawal at the moment, and keep watching the odd Sherlock episode to keep me going, so you are not the only one, nethwen.

I hope the next series is early next year! (Still a long time to wait )
The Terminator
03-02-2012
All theories that include Moriarty being an "actor" or Sherlock not jumping off that roof make me weep.
sandydune
03-02-2012
two things spotted when I look back at when Sherlock is on the roof and Watson walks back to where Sherlock wanted him to be.

two cars parked in the Ambulance only parking bay and a big arrow pointing to Watson
Trsvis_Bickle
03-02-2012
Originally Posted by The Terminator:
“All theories that include Moriarty being an "actor" or Sherlock not jumping off that roof make me weep.”

Quite. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Moriarty has to be Moriarty and has to be dead. If he is an actor or has faked his death, the dramatic tension of half the episode is lost;

Sherlock has to have fallen from the roof. We saw it from an objective point of view, not from the point of view of Watson who may be drugged / mistaken / dreaming etc.

That has to be Sherlock (although obviously not dead) lying on the pavement, seen and touched by Watson.

If any of the above 3 conditions are not met, I'll...I'll be very disappointed. I didn't mind the easy resolution of the final scene of the first series as it wasn't really a cliff-hanger, it was the introduction of Moriarty. We all knew that Watson and Holmes would get out of the situation unharmed and I didn't give it another thought.

This time, though, it's very different.
Granny McSmith
03-02-2012
Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle:
“Quite. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Moriarty has to be Moriarty and has to be dead. If he is an actor or has faked his death, the dramatic tension of half the episode is lost;

Sherlock has to have fallen from the roof. We saw it from an objective point of view, not from the point of view of Watson who may be drugged / mistaken / dreaming etc.

That has to be Sherlock (although obviously not dead) lying on the pavement, seen and touched by Watson.

If any of the above 3 conditions are not met, I'll...I'll be very disappointed. I didn't mind the easy resolution of the final scene of the first series as it wasn't really a cliff-hanger, it was the introduction of Moriarty. We all knew that Watson and Holmes would get out of the situation unharmed and I didn't give it another thought.

This time, though, it's very different.”

Nothing has to be anything with Moffat in charge.

I still bet the solution to how Sherlock survives is nothing anyone's yet thought of.
neleh
03-02-2012
Well, Benedict Cumberbatch says on the dvd that he did the jump (or jumps) so I think that confirms that it was Sherlock who jumped.
Stockingfiller
03-02-2012
Exactly. Moriarty is dead. Sherlock jumped.
Unless we think of it all on a quantum level, of course.
neleh
03-02-2012
Although the journalist had Moriaty's fake press releases as Richard Brook and he talked of a being the 'Storyteller' on a children's dvd, it would surely be relatively simple to confirm these. Newspaper/magazine archives would deny the existence of the articles, and I bet she won't be able to find a copy of the dvd either!
Relugus
03-02-2012
Moriarty was ahead of Sherlock for most of the episode. Moriarty's whole scheme was built around Sherlock's ego, his tendency to want to show off and look better than everyone else. Sherlock's behaviour in the courtroom, for example, fit that of a charlatan, a fake show-off.
Sherlock was looking for something complex when Moriarty's plan was deviously simple yet elaborate. Like all the best villains, Moriarty kind of has a point.
The realisation of this caused SH to reflect, after the encounter with "Richard Brook" and the journalist.
In the rooftop confrontation, SH resisted the urge to show off to his rival, convincing Moriarty that he was "ordinary" (pretending to not know suicide was on the agenda, for example), which thus led M to lower his guard and slip up (given that M had the upper hand, SH needed to lure M into making a mistake) by giving away that there was a password or code to stop the assassins.
I think SH devised several contingencies to deal with Moriarty. He realised that, the two of them being alike, he needed to look at himself objectively and look for weaknesses. Moriarty targeted Lestrade, John, and Mrs Hudson, but not Molly...because she didn't matter. Both SH and M are sociopaths but SH did not overlook Molly; his being more "human" proved to be the difference between life and death.
He (Holmes) did not plan everything in advance; his plan is constantly shifting and changing as he gathers more info from Moriarty. He did not expect M to shoot himself.

The Final Problem is death.

I do have difficulty figuring out how SH can come back from the "dead" having been disgraced and assumed to be dead.
Loracan1
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by neleh:
“Well, Benedict Cumberbatch says on the dvd that he did the jump (or jumps) so I think that confirms that it was Sherlock who jumped.”

Oh, I reckon he jumps. I'm just not convinced it's from where it appears to be.
DiannaInVA
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle:
“Quite. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Moriarty has to be Moriarty and has to be dead. If he is an actor or has faked his death, the dramatic tension of half the episode is lost;

Sherlock has to have fallen from the roof. We saw it from an objective point of view, not from the point of view of Watson who may be drugged / mistaken / dreaming etc.

That has to be Sherlock (although obviously not dead) lying on the pavement, seen and touched by Watson.

If any of the above 3 conditions are not met, I'll...I'll be very disappointed. I didn't mind the easy resolution of the final scene of the first series as it wasn't really a cliff-hanger, it was the introduction of Moriarty. We all knew that Watson and Holmes would get out of the situation unharmed and I didn't give it another thought.

This time, though, it's very different.”

I agree. If everything was planned out by SH from the beginning and we can't believe any of SH's emotions are real, then why should I ever care about Sherlock's feelings? The only person who would have any real emotion would be Watson. I want SH to be human and care about people....or even make mistakes now and then. Personally I think he was surprised when M killed himself. I also think he was surprised to learn there was no secret code.

If SH wasn't surprised then BC is a bad actor because he looked surprised even when no one was looking at him. BC made SH look like he was finding out all of these things at the same time as the viewer. Just like we see BC jumping off the building. Why should we suddenly assume that the camera is no longer showing us the "truth"? In the previous ep we could tell when something wasn't real because of the filming style. The only potential time in this ep where what we see may not be real could be when Watson is crawling towards SH's body--after he had jumped.

Sorry I don't mean to ramble on but I just get so frustrated when I think there is a chance that the conclusion to this will be SH sitting down and talking about how he and Mycroft had it all planned out from the beginning...
Delila100
04-02-2012
guys ilove this show. Do you think they'll keep making loads and loads of eps? Or will the next series be the last?
performingmonk
04-02-2012
Notice it cuts to a different shot just as the 'body' hits the floor. Watson is so focussed on Holmes at first, and then his head all over the place, that he doesn't notice Molly (most likely to be her) push Moriarty's body off the roof.
LilyButton
04-02-2012
What I don't understand is that just before Sherlock jumps he looks back at Moriarty lying on his back after he has supposedly put the gun in his mouth and shot himself.

We see a clear, full shot of Moriarty's face and, apart from blood coming out from behind his head, his face and his mouth are completely unharmed.

Surely if you shoot yourself through the mouth you will not only blow your brains out, there would be considerable damage to the mouth and jaw.

Anyone think this is significant? Have another look.
DeeMarie
04-02-2012
Lily I think the makers explained that they can only show so much gore on the BBC

And I can't believe they let BC do the jump. Surely a stuntman no? If he'd hurt himself they still had another episode to film I believe

They've already filmed the 'how he did it' part so I'm sure we'll see a resolution this time that someone here has mentioned - Moffat probably hasn't admitted it because, well, think of the dvd sales I think some of the smaller stuff won't be though, TGG didn't have resolutions for some stuff either.
LilyButton
04-02-2012
Dee, yes I can see why BBC are limited with what they can show but I think I meant that I couldn't understand why they showed an undamaged full-face shot rather than an ambiguous half-face that might be damaged. I would have expected at least to see a little smear of blood at least.
God I sound gruesome! I'm not really, but this did puzzel me.
sandydune
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Relugus:
“ Moriarty targeted Lestrade, John, and Mrs Hudson, but not Molly...because she didn't matter.”

do you think Moriarty had seen how Sherlock was regarding her xmas pressie to him.Sherlock found the little cctv camera so Moriarty could have been seeing what Sherlock was up to before that.

Also the person who was keeping an eye on Lestrade was one of his team.
Granny McSmith
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by DiannaInVA:
“I agree. If everything was planned out by SH from the beginning and we can't believe any of SH's emotions are real, then why should I ever care about Sherlock's feelings? The only person who would have any real emotion would be Watson. I want SH to be human and care about people....or even make mistakes now and then. Personally I think he was surprised when M killed himself. I also think he was surprised to learn there was no secret code.

If SH wasn't surprised then BC is a bad actor because he looked surprised even when no one was looking at him. BC made SH look like he was finding out all of these things at the same time as the viewer. Just like we see BC jumping off the building. Why should we suddenly assume that the camera is no longer showing us the "truth"? In the previous ep we could tell when something wasn't real because of the filming style. The only potential time in this ep where what we see may not be real could be when Watson is crawling towards SH's body--after he had jumped.

Sorry I don't mean to ramble on but I just get so frustrated when I think there is a chance that the conclusion to this will be SH sitting down and talking about how he and Mycroft had it all planned out from the beginning...”

Sherlock shows plenty of emotion when he is about to jump. His feelings about John are quite plain.

I do expect to see Sherlock explaining how he and Mycroft had it all planned. Whether I'm right or wrong about that, I'll be quite happy.
Granny McSmith
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by DeeMarie:
“
And I can't believe they let BC do the jump. Surely a stuntman no? If he'd hurt himself they still had another episode to film I believe
.”

BC talks about the jump in his interview on the DVD. Either he's kidding or he definitely jumped! (I don't think he did the complete jump, though. Maybe a few yards).
Granny McSmith
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by sandydune:
“
Also the person who was keeping an eye on Lestrade was one of his team.”

Yes, he was. Moriarty's men get everywhere!
neleh
04-02-2012
The cctv camera was only installed in the last episode - by the workman/assassin doing the jobs around the house.

I also think we have some unresolved issues. After all Sherlock was arrested for suspected kidnapping. John head-butted Lestade's boss, so he'll presumably have something to sort there. There are still 5 assassins on the loose - Moriaty's 3 plus the remaining 2 that were after Sherlock.

And do we assume BC was lying, then, when he said he did the jump on the dvd.
sandydune
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by neleh:
“The cctv camera was only installed in the last episode - by the workman/assassin doing the jobs around the house.
”

ok, thanks I thought it had been there a while.
sandydune
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Granny McSmith:
“Yes, he was. Moriarty's men get everywhere!”

The guy was on the phone too. Who was he talking to?

Someone phoned Watson about Mrs Hudson, wonder who that was.

Was Irene Adler somewhere near too, she managed to fall out a window before without hurting herself , maybe she gave Sherlock some tips.
Granny McSmith
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by neleh:
“
I also think we have some unresolved issues. After all Sherlock was arrested for suspected kidnapping. John head-butted Lestade's boss, so he'll presumably have something to sort there. There are still 5 assassins on the loose - Moriaty's 3 plus the remaining 2 that were after Sherlock.

.”

Yes, I thought this, too. When John gets the call saying Mrs H had been shot, and he rushes out, he wants Sherlock to come with him, and gives him a hard time about not coming.

But even if Sherlock had not known it was a set up, he would still have been arrested if he'd left Bart's.

I suppose the 5 assassins have just packed up and gone home.
DeeMarie
04-02-2012
Originally Posted by sandydune:
“Someone phoned Watson about Mrs Hudson, wonder who that was.”

I think that was Sherlock, getting John out of the way.
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