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Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)


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Old 01-01-2014, 22:59
solenoid
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No one thinks it's a documentary or wants it to be one.

And if it's never properly explained, that's fine with me. Leave it a mystery. But I suspect it wasn't explained because they couldn't. There isn't any good, believable-but-not-too-obvious explanation. And without such an explanation -- which many people were hoping for -- it needed to have something else sufficiently good to make up for that lack, and it didn't.
My guess is Moffat had a feeble explanation that was quickly deduced on the net and then abandoned having any answer. Then again, we have 2 more episodes and he may surprise us yet.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:00
Kapellmeister
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I thought that, but it didn't bother me. I thought it worked, especially refusing to give an explanation.
That's fine. Some people would be happy with Sherlock and Watson in a room bickering for 90 minutes as they love the depictions so much, but what always sold the series for me was the way it updated many of the ingenious plots of the original stories and translated them into the 21st century with modern twists. There was none of that in tonight's episode.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:00
Jimbob91
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I can't imagine how clever or complicated the explanation of Sherlock's 'death' would have to be in order to ensure that people don't feel let down by it. It would probably get slated by 50% of this forum at least, no matter what it was.

With two years of build-up and speculation, it would probably be for the best if it was never properly explained. After all, "everyone's a critic".
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:00
eggshell
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Try the first series. The opening episode is fantastic. It introduces all the main characters and tells a great story. Tonight's offering is scarcely recognisible as the same show.
The first episode of Sherlock was absolute genius and I think your right and those of us tuning in for more of the same have been a tad disappointed.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:01
theonlyweeman
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Yep. The story in this episode was never meant to be about the 'case' itself - it was all about exploring and repairing the dynamic between John and Sherlock. Conan Doyle dealt with it very poorly - I much preferred this.
To be honest, I think it's the characters more than the cases that make the show work. Sure a bit of narrative cleverness is helpful, but would the show be as good if they had the same cases and different characters? I doubt it.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:01
slouchingthatch
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Has anyone been pleased by any of the "explanations" seen so far?
They're reflections of most of the commonly held fan theories. The point is - as John says - it's less important how Sherlock survived than the impact it has had on his relationship with John because he didn't let him in on the secret.

I don't care how Sherlock survived. As was said in a previous post, it's like a magic trick. The explanation is always a disappointment, and as was covered in the Anderson/Sherlock exchange at the end, no explanation will ever satisfy all the fans. So why bother? Let people use their own imaginations to fill in the gaps.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:02
Kapellmeister
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I think it was very good. Not the nest episode theyve done but top five. They rightly put the relationship of the main characters front and centre which in a ninety minute part one of three was always going to be a difficult balancing act. And it did mean the terror threat was slightly under developed but considering the limitations Gatiss still pulled it off. Because that was just garnish. The main course was Sherlock returning and the impact on those around him. And in that respect it was fantastic. Remarkable performances from every single cast member. Beautifully directed- in particular the sequences on the tube and in Sherlocks mind. Smart, funny, exciting, looked great, emotional. What more do you want from a drama series?

I think it played a bit too much on the fan service aide of things at times- i wouldve swapped a couple of those scenes for others developing the terror plot. But that's minor criticism.

It was exactly the smart and clever sort of TV that Moffat and Gatiss have made their names with. And it beats most other shows hands down. Except DW of course.
Yes, and the show turns into a soap opera in a blink of the eye. Not for me, thanks.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:02
Hello.
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Can I just say that if you didn't see Gatiss An Adventure in Time and Space you've missed out on the best Doctor Who related drama for a very long time.
Oh yes, I did! Forgot about that, it was rather good. I preferred this though.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:03
RobInnes
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Well it made more sense than Doctor Who this Christmas.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:04
slouchingthatch
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Third explanation was it. There won't be any more.
Not necessarily. The dialogue leaves it ambiguous. I read it as Sherlock taking the piss out of Anderson by spinning him a yarn.

And, in truth, it doesn't matter. This episode wasn't about the 'reveal' or even about the bomb plot. It was about examining what had happened to Sherlock and John's relationship, and how they repair it.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:04
Andrew_Thomas2
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So is no one picking up on the gunpowder plot point re the train car being lifted from the scooby do film 'The Chiller Diller Movie Thriller'? Moffat and Gatiss you legends! Ultimate nerd points? Loved the episode, glad to have it back albeit for a fleeting moment!
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:05
CD93
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Gatiss & Moffat on The Fall
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:06
jg.
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A good romp and very fun pokes at the online theories that have abounded.

If you like this sort of thing ( and i do) this was a very well written episode indeed - even though the terrorism story was quite incidental to the Holmes/ Watson side of things- but that was perhaps to be expected, although this story arc is being developed over the next 2 episodes of course

But if you dont like this sort of thing then you would have a field day picking it apart, moaning about everything and anything you wanted to people who quite likely don't give a fig anyway.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:06
eggshell
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I think it was very good. Not the best episode theyve done but top five-probably 3rd for me. They rightly put the relationship of the main characters front and centre which in a ninety minute part one of three was always going to be a difficult balancing act. And it did mean the terror threat was slightly under developed but considering the limitations Gatiss still pulled it off. Because that was just garnish. The main course was Sherlock returning and the impact on those around him. And in that respect it was fantastic. Remarkable performances from every single cast member. Beautifully directed- in particular the sequences on the tube and in Sherlocks mind. Smart, funny, exciting, looked great, emotional. What more do you want from a drama series?

I think it played a bit too much on the fan service aide of things at times- i wouldve swapped a couple of those scenes for others developing the terror plot. But that's minor criticism.

It was exactly the smart and clever sort of TV that Moffat and Gatiss have made their names with. And it beats most other shows hands down. Except DW of course.
Agree with your comments on fan service..especially when you see some of the fan fiction out there !! Bugger them and do your own thing would be my advice.

Where we differ is I think that the heavily skewed relationship aspect detracts from the detecting which is what I tune in for.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:06
DFI
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Big fan of the Conan Doyle stories, and a huge fan of the first two series of Sherlock

This was the Emperor's New Clothes though. Very very lame, wafer thin plot, and the style is in danger of trying to be so clever that it disappears up its on backside.

The constant references to "it's a magic trick" at the time of the fall clearly point to the fact that they're not really going to tell you how it's done, which is a lame excuse for not being able to find a credible explanation.

I really hope the next two episodes return to the quality of the drama and the story telling that was evident in the first two series. This episode seemed to be more about intentionally NOT telling any kind of story at all.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:06
Rorschach
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Must be just me then
I thought it was a complete and utter load of rubbish
It made no sense from beginning to end
So you didn't bother to actually read the thread then before declaring you were the only person who didn't like it?

You will find a number of other people who agree with you, however if you count the names rather than the the posts you will find they are the minority.

You didn't like it, no one said you had to to.

You won't watch it again, no one says you have to.

So, all's good.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:07
Jennell_Sierako
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Best thing I have seen on TV for ages and I don't care which version of his surviving was the real one or if any of them were. Everything about it was great and I stayed awake, which I do not often manage to as I have 10 kids.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:07
solenoid
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The solutions are unimportant it's the emotional journey that counts.

According to modern TV drama theory.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:07
slouchingthatch
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To be honest, I think it's the characters more than the cases that make the show work. Sure a bit of narrative cleverness is helpful, but would the show be as good if they had the same cases and different characters? I doubt it.
I agree. One of the most commonly cited reasons for this version's success is the chemistry between Cumberbatch and Freeman, and I totally concur. Freeman is terrific in the early scenes, where you can see the shock and outrage in his eyes, which boils over three times as he assaults Sherlock. And the sheer panic in Sherlock's voice as he and Mary race to save John is one of the few times we have seen him open up about how much John means to him.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:08
MrsMacBeth
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I thought it was brilliant. It has still got us all guessing and arguing on sites such as this. What more could the makers want? A programme on here with no thread or a thread with one or two replies would be deemed to be a failure, but this one is on page 52 (so far) so I would consider it has been an overwhelming success. Well done again BBC.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:08
nethwen
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I can't imagine how clever or complicated the explanation of Sherlock's 'death' would have to be in order to ensure that people don't feel let down by it. It would probably get slated by 50% of this forum at least, no matter what it was.

With two years of build-up and speculation, it would probably be for the best if it was never properly explained. After all, "everyone's a critic".
To be honest, there hasn't been much negative said on these threads. Until tonight. It's mainly been pretty positive.

Perhaps those who are disappointed by tonight's episode haven't been following the ordinary theories and fanfiction theories that have taken place since the last series. Because there have been loads since The Reichenbach Fall episode.

I can see why they decided to portray tonight's episode as they did. It's really like an acknowledgement to Sherlockians, who are very passionate about the whole drama series. And I think Moffat and Co. are to be commended for that.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:08
saladfingers81
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Yes, and the show turns into a soap opera in a blink of the eye. Not for me, thanks.
Newsflash- dealing in human emotion doesn't make something a soap opera. Its called drama. If Sherlock returned and everyone went 'oh fine! On we go' we would either be watching Star Trek or some really shit writing.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:08
Benjamin Sisko
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Well it made more sense than Doctor Who this Christmas.
Is it not possible to grade a show on its own merits without having to put down another show which was NOT written by the guy who wrote today's Sherlock? Despite the fact that the two shows have little in common? Jeez. Nonsense comparison.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:09
eggshell
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The solutions are unimportant it's the emotional journey that counts.

According to modern TV drama theory.
Yes "Lost" has a lot to answer for.
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Old 01-01-2014, 23:10
slouchingthatch
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A good romp and very fun pokes at the online theories that have abounded.

If you like this sort of thing ( and i do) this was a very well written episode indeed - even though the terrorism story was quite incidental to the Holmes/ Watson side of things- but that was perhaps to be expected, although this story arc is being developed over the next 2 episodes of course

But if you dont like this sort of thing then you would have a field day picking it apart, moaning about everything and anything you wanted to people who quite likely don't give a fig anyway.
And written quite deliberately to be that way. The bomb plot is really just a device to bring an episode which is all about the Holmes/Watson relationship to a head.

People who are worrying this is indicative of a new direction are worrying over nothing, I think. This was a one-off, designed specifically to explore how the dynamic between the two leads was affected by Sherlock's absence.
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