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  • TV Shows: UK
Sherlock - New BBC Drama (Part 2)
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Bus Stop2012
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Thunder Lips:
“I just wasn't entertained by this. It all felt so silly and up its own arse and simply didn't have a particularly interesting plot.”

That sums my feeling up too.

I'm not a Dr Who watcher, and don't have the first clue about this Moffat guy or anything, but I did notice that in interviews he describes Sherlock as 'Dr Who, but on later in the evening' and he said 'its the same audience for both'. So I guess that's who its aimed at.

ETA. Someone described it as pantomime. That sounds correct.
StrictlyRed
02-01-2014
Sherlock was one of the few programmes I've been really looking forward to over the Christmas period, and I wasn't disappointed.

I thought it was fantastic, and I'm so glad we only have a couple of days to wait until episode 2.

Well done to all concerned, and I do hope they make some more as 3 just doesn't seem enough after such a long wait.
Eater Sundae
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by gashead:
“Hmm. Are you sure that's not too simplistic? I like the idea that 'they' took over all London TV and radio broadcasts and persuaded the population there had been an alien invasion and everyone was to immediately return indoors and/ or under no circumstances venture out. ”

Yes, right up Mycroft's/Gatiss's street
TRIPS
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Parker45:
“The only thing I liked was seeing Dr Watson with a moustache because that's how he appeared in the original stories......but then, unbelievably, he shaved it off!”

That is one of the brilliant little bits that make the show so enjoyable, the Conan Doyle Sherlock and Watson little idiosyncrasies that we know from the past are given to the new characters for a short while to link the old and the new Sherlock and Watson.
Sherlocks grabs any hat to hide his face from the press. he actually hates the hat but now has to wear it to keep the media happy. Watson ridiculing the police for searching Sherlocks room for drugs while Sherlock is quietly telling him to shut up.
Now they have made the reference to Watson moustache there is no need for him to have it so rightly he has shaved it off, after all it did look awful .lol
Woodbine
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by StrictlyRed:
“
Well done to all concerned, and I do hope they make some more as 3 just doesn't seem enough after such a long wait.”

I was thinking that the other day, it would be nice to have about 13 episodes.

But having 2 big actors who are busy making films is impossible to make that many episodes I guess.
sw2963
02-01-2014
Maybe Paul McGuigan* sp was missed in this episode
jack_kerouac
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“Yes, and the show turns into a soap opera in a blink of the eye. Not for me, thanks.”

My thoughts exactly as i turned off at the bomb in the tube train.

The great Sherlock holmes , Knowing the H of P are to be blown up ....walks alone into a tunnel, into a bomb carraige , and NEVER for a moment thought ....I could be trapped here !!!!!

what an idiot. anyone who half suspected that on Nov 5th, a tube train was going to explode would NOT get themselves caught with the bomb , underground, with no mobile signal.... ( yet the bomd couyld remotely be triggered !! ) ... telling no back up in case they got stranded....DUMB DUMB DUMB.

Sherlock Holmes ????

Homer Simpson more like.

UTTER TOSH.

If I want a homo erotic rom com I will go to the DVD store.

( how long was that rescue at the bonfire ...yawn)
VideoTapir
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Bus Stop2012:
“Someone described it as pantomime. That sounds correct.”

Oh no it isn't!
Parthenon
02-01-2014
Found the episode quite funny with plenty of good quotes. The dialogue was classic but the plot wasn't up to much. The next episode looks interesting so hopefully it picks up a bit.
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen:
“Have you seen Tumblr? I searched Sherlock on it last night, and seriously, felt a little scared! It definitely has a focal and passionate fanbase (I have a friend from uni who has a quote tattooed on her wrist and had her photo taken at the spot Sherlock jumped). Even the scene with the fan tearing down the notes on the wall and getting all emotional, they collectively agreed it was accurate!

As a casual viewer, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was very funny and answered the questions I had from the previous series. (Admittedly I've only watched the series once) I think it was nice how they aimed to the fans as well.”

No I admit that I haven't seen Tumblr and the Sherlock stuff.
Really though it does seem like the show has sought out this extreme fanbase and made more of a big deal of it than it actually is.
I expect even shows The One Show have extreme fans, but I doubt that they are truly representative in any way of the population of viewers out there.
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by aggs:
“When you think about it though, an explanation of how someone managed to appear to jump of a tall building and walk away outside a Hospital in a busy city centre street without any of the passers by so much as blinking is always going to not ring true in one way or another.

Like all magic tricks the solution is always going to be prosaic and be a bit of a let down. A cast of thousands, backroom organisation from Men in Suits and an emotionally charged Watson believing his eyes is probably one of the more believable ones!”

It did say that the street was closed off though didn't it so it was like a big film set?
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“I loved it - stylised with plenty of content.

Laughed at John's middle finger in the air as he pulled on the latex glove.

Laughed at the comment from Sherlock "He told me to f..." juxtaposed with John's request to his patient to "Cough".

Funny, and inventive. But emotional as well.”

Yes I agree that it was a brilliant sequence which showed cutaway edits to hilarious effect. I also particularly liked the one where Sherlock was asked what John's reply to him was to which they cut away to Watson in his doctor's surgery asking a patient to 'cough'.
reddress
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Phred:
“The story mimicked V for Vendetta in that both involved exploding a tube train under the Houses of Parliament.

The footage of the exploding HoP was completely different, in that in V it was much more expensively done, with close-ups, and the viewing side was the North side of the Thames, but with Sherlock it was from the South Bank (allowing not so detailed CGI/models to be used?)”

That's exactly what I was reminded of too, V. Overall it was a good episode and I'm looking forward to the next one.
paperplanes_
02-01-2014
I really liked this episode; it's not been my favourite, the top two being The Great Game and A Scandal In Belgravia (yes, I liked ASiB, despite what tumblr would think of me, I'm not the devil). I think the issue with writing for sherlock is the huge fan base is going to mean one group of fans won't be impressed and another will. Similar to DW, I've seen people who love Moffats writing and people who hate it.

I liked Sherlock and Mycrofts' conversations and I think they've really brought them on as characters. I thought Mary was great and I'm interested to see if they write her out or if she fits into the Holmes/Watson dynamic. Anderson was hilarious with his mad theories as was fan club girl and I thought Lestrade and Sherlocks reunion was lovely. Really suited his character and made me laugh.

I thought the humour was on point in this with the references to canon and the cutting from Mrs Hudson and Sherlock to John and his patient. I quite enjoyed the mix of crime show with drama. I thought it was a nice balance! I also love Molly a little bit more although I desperately want Sherlock to deduce Tom/Tim, I've forgotten his name. Budget Benedict is what I'll call him
solenoid
02-01-2014
Next episode: "The sign of 3."

Then "His last vow."

Then a 6 year break presumably.
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Relugus:
“I took the character's reaction as a joke about fandom (of any TV show, book, game, etc), and how it can generate staggeringly elaborate theories to the point that when the actual reveal happens they either are disappointed or can't accept it.”

Me too. That when given an actual reveal it's still not good enough for them and they think there must be more so carry on speculating new fantastical theories.
I'm surprised that quite a few people actually felt it was a hint that Sherlock didn't actually reveal the true explanation.
I doubt very much that this will be revisited.

I don't agree with posters who say that a reveal of a magic trick is disappointing, as I often find that explanations of magic tricks can be brilliant. In fact after most episodes of Sherlock, or shows like Hustle, we are always treated to a reveal, and for the most part I really enjoy seeing how something was pulled off. I remember watching the Penn and Teller magic show in the nineties and the trick reveals were probably more entertaining and satisfying than the actual tricks themselves.
With the TV series Hustle it was always about how delicious the reveal was going to turn out to be and the anticipation of the explanation.

Sherlock is a show which is usually full of reveals of 'tricks' so I don't understand how some posters can say that they find trick reveals disappointing.
lolly-licker
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by jack_kerouac:
“The great Sherlock holmes , Knowing the H of P are to be blown up ....walks alone into a tunnel, into a bomb carraige , and NEVER for a moment thought ....I could be trapped here !!!!!

what an idiot. anyone who half suspected that on Nov 5th, a tube train was going to explode would NOT get themselves caught with the bomb , underground, with no mobile signal.... ( yet the bomd couyld remotely be triggered !! ) ... telling no back up in case they got stranded....DUMB DUMB DUMB.”

My impression was he was letting Watson think they were going to die so he'd forgive Sherlock. Sherlock *had* called the police, and the bomb squad.



---
I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the nods to the fans and the fanfiction. I thought John repeatedly punching Sherlock was maybe a little OTT but it definitely needed a punch.
I actually quite liked Mary - she wasn't forced down our throats. I didn't think I'd like Amanda Abbington but she was really quite tolerable
For me it was a great return. I hope we get a little more plot driven in the next episode though, although it was all necesary in this one.
Of course we all knew that John and Sherlock were going to escape the bomb, but I did have a scary thought that Moffat may have been teasing us all along and was going to black out right there and kill them off, to give the fans a taste of their own medecine for coming up with the Moriarty/Sherlock pairing.
Also, loved Sherlock being grateful to Molly. I hope she can be happy...I think she's the everywoman in Sherlock, to be honest.
Parthenon
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“No I admit that I haven't seen Tumblr and the Sherlock stuff.
Really though it does seem like the show has sought out this extreme fanbase and made more of a big deal of it than it actually is.
I expect even shows The One Show have extreme fans, but I doubt that they are truly representative in any way of the population of viewers out there.”

I'd agree with that. The Moriarty/Sherlock near kiss scene seemed like a nod to the hardcore fanbase, what with all their "fanfiction". There were plenty of others that I didn't catch.
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by DanielF:
“I think they even suggested that one was in his mind - Sherlock disappears (we catch a glimpse of him moving off though) and he goes crazy; it could all have been imagined for all we know and Sherlock was never there.”

Perhaps, but I still think that would be about trying to introduce doubt into 'our' minds, even after having been given the truth.
mossy2103
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by solenoid:
“Next episode: "The sign of 3."

Then "His last vow."

Then a 6 year break presumably.”

Where has there ever been such a break? There have always been 2 years between series.


So why should there be a new series every year?
Alrightmate
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by mickmars:
“It all felt a bit too "look at us having fun making a hit tv show" to me. then again,I couldn't take the Watson marriage proposal seriously either - Knowing about the "tax" situation of the pair in real life ”

It did feel way too self aware and self referential than it usually does for my liking.
It felt like the show was saying 'look at how popular we are. Look at how everyone is talking about us. Look at how everyone is speculating about our last show'. Which is probably true, but I don't think I liked that aspect of it. It felt like the show was preening itself and smugly patting itself on its back.

So something which many on this thread say they loved when it was addressing the show's own fans, I didn't.

I still enjoyed it and it was simply too good compared to the vast majority of TV shows out there for me to be too critical about that.
But I really hope that this episode was a brief excursion into this territory and it doesn't become a habit.
I hope service is resumed in the next two episodes.
The thing is that they only have 3 episodes per series and they don't really have a lot of time to play around like this and have the show massage its own ego when it's such a long wait between series for only 3 episodes at a time.
jack_kerouac
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by lolly-licker:
“My impression was he was letting Watson think they were going to die so he'd forgive Sherlock. Sherlock *had* called the police, and the bomb squad.



---
I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the nods to the fans and the fanfiction. I thought John repeatedly punching Sherlock was maybe a little OTT but it definitely needed a punch.
I actually quite liked Mary - she wasn't forced down our throats. I didn't think I'd like Amanda Abbington but she was really quite tolerable
For me it was a great return. I hope we get a little more plot driven in the next episode though, although it was all necesary in this one.
Of course we all knew that John and Sherlock were going to escape the bomb, but I did have a scary thought that Moffat may have been teasing us all along and was going to black out right there and kill them off, to give the fans a taste of their own medecine for coming up with the Moriarty/Sherlock pairing.
Also, loved Sherlock being grateful to Molly. I hope she can be happy...I think she's the everywoman in Sherlock, to be honest. ”

Really ? by that time i had lost the will to live.

Emotional, deep, romantic drama I can find anywhere.

I want Sherlock Holmes.

Not this Dr Who in a deerstalker, fan hysteria, dragged out, implausible drivel.
lolly-licker
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by jack_kerouac:
“Really ? by that time i had lost the will to live.

Emotional, deep, romantic drama I can find anywhere.

I want Sherlock Holmes.

Not this Dr Who in a deerstalker, fan hysteria, dragged out, implausible drivel.”

Fair enough I understand where you're coming from, shows can quite easily become victims of their own success. It really worked for me but I can see exactly why it wouldn't work for other people. Then again, I want Sherlock's babies, so I'll forgive the show pretty much anything
slouchingthatch
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by chipsaunt:
“I haven't read The Empty House and now I must do so. The 2 year gap in this show may have been by design, in order to create a similar hiatus as in the original Conan Doyle stories. I remember that originally, Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and was forced to bring him back, therefore he had to come up with a plausible explanation for his faked death. In Sherlock, the whole plot has been planned in advance and is not a response to the audience's shock at Sherlock's apparent death. However, they have included a nod to the audience reaction, so that's quite a clever angle.

As far as I am concerned, the writers are still sticking to the overall plan, of modernising the Holmes stories. I don't think this episode has driven the whole project off track and some people are suggesting.

Personally, I really enjoyed it and I'm waiting to see what happens in the other episodes.”

Me too.

Re the bit in bold, there was close to two years between seasons one and two, and a two-year cycle has always been intentional, I believe.

Indeed, it was this broad window which allowed Cumberbatch to shoot Star Trek 2 (and other films - he's been busy!) and Freeman to do The Hobbit (I know BC is in it too, but he was providing voice only rather than being the star of the piece). And from previous interviews we know that it was Peter Jackson that rearranged the Hobbit shooting schedule to fit around Sherlock, and not the other way round - which is quite something when you think about it.

As I've said in my review and elsewhere, I loved this. Offering no definitive solution (which is how I read the Sherlock version to Anderson - I see it as him toying with him rather than telling him the truth) was a clever way of sidestepping the inevitable issue of coming up with an 'answer' that half the fans disagree with.

Unlike some others here, I really enjoyed the character piece too. Conan Doyle reset the relationship too quickly on Holmes' return in my opinion (Watson faints, then all's well again), so I appreciated the examination of how the relationship had fractured and actually needed the high-stress situation of the bomb to fully repair it by forcing John to forgive Sherlock out loud.
slouchingthatch
02-01-2014
Originally Posted by margarite6666:
“People seem to over think shows like this. It is not like we need to watch and there will be a test afterwards on logic!

I really liked the old fella in his surgery that John thought was Holmes. I am so used to seeing Holmes dressed up. I actually thought it was Mark Gatiss's voice. Hence I though Mycroft had put on a disguise to bring John around. That had me fooled.”

It's a hat-tip to the original story. Holmes appears to Watson disguised as an elderly, wizened book collector carrying books about tree worshipping, British birds and the Holy War among others. The man in Watson's GP surgery shows John a DVD about tree worship, a 'British birds' porn mag - which, if you'd spotted the link by then, is hilarious - and a DVD about the Holy War. A subtle nod that doesn't detract from the scene, but a funny one for the geeks (like me).
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