Simply - what justification, proof or evidence do you have for the above quote regarding black/asian people?-
Victor got pretty far down the line on the last BB (despite being a completely arrogant t*sser) and would have got further had it not been for his attitude - nothing to do with his COLOUR, Lemar made the top 3 on FA - he didn't win because people thought that others sang better so voted for THEM, Javine would have totally made the PSTR girl band had it not been for that common situation of people assuming she was safe so voting for someone else (the same reason as why VWS were in the bottom 2)....What you have written is entirely your opinion, which is fine, but has no evidence, proof etc to back it up - unless you can provide something which would show you actually made sense??????

i do see things from soneone else's point of view if they have any evidence at all to back it up,which you do not.other than that it is subjective

nadia did NOT win out of sympathy in my opinion so that is just something else we disagree on.

i dont think society sees us all the same either-the area i live in now in the north of england has a white majority for example so i have seen life from from sides and as i said i used to run an LGBT so an ounce of sense could show you the homophobia i have encountered

and i said that both the race AND the gay card-whether you havent seen it or not DOES exist and are both tiresome. GENUINE racism and homophobia is not and is of course a serious issue and i have dealt with both
but this? same old same old.

maybe you and your friends could just vote a lot for vws just to prove a point to yourselves,or maybe its easier to spout nonsensical demographics and moan about an untalented act instead

Having watched this weeks X Factor I have to agree totally that it "Just Shows The Prejudice In This Country". After all the bottom 2 consisted of a 50 year old woman and a visually impaired young man.

Out of 8 possible candidates for the bottom 2 an older person and a disabled person were there, how unfair is that it just shows how rampant ageism and anti-disabled feeling is in this country.

my evidences is this..

VICTOR - he lasted so long because he avoided being up for eviction for so long...that had nothng to do with the public but his own personality in the house...as soon as he was up for his first eviction..he recieved a massive 400,000 votes...inwhich someone else of ethnic origin ahmed recieved nearly 600,000 votes..and i think the others only receieved about 50,000 to 200,000 each ..then the week after when he was out by a landslide...apparently due to his arguement with shell...(yeah right)

if jason was such a goner that week then why did he finish second with such high votes? over favourable dan? its all rubbish

Now victor may been an asshole in some peoples eyes..but i also remember on the big brother forum people calling him the N word in which there was no need for..my point is that even though you feel you dont like someone not because of there colour that doesnt mean that there arent others who DO judge people on there skin colour

as for Lemar...well...the words out of elton johns mouth was that he should have won it and he would have if he was white...and thats elton johns comment

My point is that Nadia was a white transexual..who being a transexual is the same discrimination as race...and she used it all through big brother..with her "big secret" and her "cries in the diary room on how she wanted to tell people that she was a transexual but didnt have the guts to"...she used the "transexual card" all through the show..yet no one would ever say she used that card so why is it always when someone mentions race its "oh you used the race card again"

no one on here has denied that racism EXISTS but when you are using loathsome examples of people like victor and ahmed on a areality show who would be hated whther they are ethnic or as white as snow or a rubbish imo group like vws then it doesnt really stand up does it?

and since when has Elton John been the voice of reason?

like i said before...something is tiresome when it doesnt affect you..

someone is playing the "gay card" ...as you are not gay yourself
someone is playing the "race card"...as you are not black/asian yourself
someone is playing the "disability card"..as you are not disabled yourself


now my guess from your name on here that your female..but if someone came on here and saying that they felt that there boss kept putting them at work because they were a woman...or kept on making her fell that she wasnt good enough for the job..i can garentee that you wouldnt say to them "oh stop playing the female card"..or prehaps if someone said that women were only good for cooking or cleaning....you would defend ..where as someone male could just say to you..."stop using the female card"

if someone makes a point that doesnt affect you..your quick to throw the card at them..therefore you are just ignorant

something is only tiresome when is ISNT TRUE and people carp on about it when they cant see the truth in front of their judgemental eyes

all of the points you have made affect me but i still have the judgment to be objective which is more than you.
I RAN AN LGBT so haxe experienced homophobia
i have gone out with black people and have experienced racism from white people
i have lived in a predominately black area and experienced racism FROM black people

i'm not some 16 year old kid who figures they know what every person in this country is thinking unlike you i suspect

seriously do you actually read anything anyone replies to you without spouting the word "ignorant" in defence
? you are without doubt one of the most ignorant people i've ever seen on DS and now i suppose i am racist too?

I wanted evidence to your point that if an asian/black person had gone into BB and asked to be accepted they would have been out the first week - that is what you said and that is what I wanted you to provide proof, evidence or justification for.....that sounds to me like you are saying that all non-Caucasian people are voted out of BB (or off other reality tv shows) immediately, presumably because, in YOUR opinion they are black/asian/mixed race etc...and what I am saying to you (and anyone else still following this ludicrous subject - yes I know I still am-) is that you have no justification or evidence for that comment at all....unless you can now provide some.
Are you not prepared to accept other people's viewpoints that when people vote for people, or vote them off it is to do with their talent (or lack thereof) or that they don't like the sound of their voices or style of music and can't imagine buying that music and so would prefer to vote for someone they actually like the sound of? Before you respond to me telling me I am a racist blah blah etc, I have actually voted for VWS both weeks (along with Rowetta) not because they are or aren't black/mixed race (because that doesn't have any impact on my vote) but because I like the way they sound and can see myself buying their music.
I fully accept that there are still many problems with all forms of racism in this country but I am asking you to consider the fact that the votes are going the way they do because of a) the way certain contestants are coming across b) because of the way they sound c) because not everyone likes the same style of music (otherwise what a boring one dimensional world we would live in) and d) because people don't vote for their favourites because they think they are safe/don't want to spend the money....

your again missing the point..i never mentioned victor to make a point about racism..someone else mentioned him..i just mentioned NADIA because she won and she had her transexual story all through the show..yet NO ONE or NONE of her fans would say she used the "transexual card"

She came in the house saying that she wanted to be accepted..she made the nation feel sorry for her..stories came out about her past in the papers...people wanted to accepted her as a woman all through the show..who ever she argued with people would side with her..she would have NEVER had such a big impact if she wasnt a transexual..people like to say it was her personality..yeah right she used to shout alot and smoked like a chimbly pot..the others never had a chance of winning..she now has sold thousands for her constant stories of her "search for a man now shes a woman"..

Her winning sent out a huge message that transexuals are accepted in todays society..even programs on channel4 about "transexual teenagers"...if you cant see the bigger picture in this then you are nieve..yet no one ever mentioned the transexual card into the whole show..but the race card is so easily mentioned..maybe because she was a white transexual

you cannot make a statement that those points are not true when you dont know..its just your opinion that its not true..just like i could say that women get treated in the workplace the same as men do in ALL jobs..that would just be my opinion..your trying to force your opinion into facts when you cant..

end of the day...if a woman came onto here and made a point about some sexism she felt she got you would be able to relate to it more and would be understanding rather than just throw the "female card" in her face

thats why i just say its ignorant

around the time of Big Brother certain members of my family slagged off nadia a lot because she was a transsexual and claimed she won BECAUSE she was a transsexual ie: the transsexual card. it exists too.

same members of my family wont even watch graham norton on tv because he is gay and "because the only reason he is on tv is because he is gay" ie: the gay card

her winning didnt do very much for transsexuals in this country who in a lot of cases are treated abominably by doctors who they go to for help and who are abused quite a lot as has been pointed out in numerous documentaries

and you DID mention vicor and ahmed getting kicked out with masive majorities over white contestants
and that the argument with shell was a cover up for why he was "really" kicked out.

I doubt it was anything to do with racism. VWS went on first and as we have seen from other shows like this, being on first doesnt help with getting votes e.g. Kirsty and Marc from Pop idol 2 got the chop. Esp doesnt help if there are lots of contestants performing. The public have a very short attention span.

it would depend on the circumstances of the supposed sexism-i wouldnt automatically believe a woman until i knew more detail-some people do like to bleat on about sexism that isnt there too. facts are facts.opinion about unproven racism (as it is in this case)is opinion

and it isnt a question of relating to it more either-i can unfortunately relate to all the issues you have brought up and you didnt even think existed before

so if one person mentions about a form of discrimination out of the 9 or more million people we have in this county that means the "discrimination card" exists..good god..oh my there must be a million cards then..wow...next i will be hearing someone saying to stop using the "cold" card..because they got sent home for having a cold

my point still remains...people say to others stop using the whatever card when someone makes a point that doesnt diriectly affect them......

Hang on she wouldn't be considerd 'white' by your average hardcore racists, and to make it worse she was a FOREIGNER !

Personally I think Nadia played the transexual card in the diary room asa way of playing the public - she would often play the "I want to be accepted" line after one of her unnecessary fag related outbursts when I guess she knew her popularity would drop.

I've follwed this thread on an off and wasn't going to jump in but man give it a break. A black act was up for voting off and it just HAD to be race motivated did it ? Maybe people just didn't like them, maybe they went on first and were forgotten, maybe everyone assumed they were safe so didn't vote for them and voted for their 2nd favorites to keep them in.

Anyone voting from a racist perspective could NOT vote them out unless of course they wee wealthy enough to vote endlessly for every 'white' act on the show. And if that were the case how come 2 white acts were in the bottom 2 this week ? Are we now saying the voting has been rigged so as not to appear racist ?

I do not actually disagree that there is still a fair amount of racism in our soceity, and maybe there are people out there with inbred or latent racism, they may not realise it but the see the skin colour before the person or their talent. But it's an education process to change these people and their offspring, usually people with that kind of attitude have grown up with little or no exposure to a multi-racial community. And IMHO do you know something that damages all the good work done by race groups in this country ? Those people that scream race when in reality it is no such thing, this only damages the efforts of those truly wantingto integrate everybody into soceity

you said these "cards" didnt exist.i corrected you.and yes there are a million of them and isnt it boring?

and i have accused you of it and your point does affect me? what now? accept that it actually mightnt be racism keeping this second rate group from winning or would that mess with your pre determined mindset too much?

i couldnt agree more.

Now your just trying to post whatever to suit your arguement

i know for a fact that if a woman came onto this forum..posting that there boss kept picking on them..every day..looking at her funny...blah blah.and felt that it was because she was a woman you would be more sympathetic because your a female yourself..theres no "depends" about it..and even if you never believed them you would just be rude to them and just post that they are uisng the female card

And in that situation it would be easy for any male on here to post to stop using the female card...and i could garentee that the woman if she felt that she was genuinly mistreated would be angry if all she got was people telling her to stop using the female card

when there is something you can relate to you are more sympathetic...

it just shows ignorance in the society today..and yes i do say ignorance..just like if someone felt that men were better than women and made a thread about it..it would annoy you..

if you arent going to believe me when i answer you then why bother asking questions?
i told you i would be subjective-WHICH I WOULD-which is apparently beyond you.

the points you have made have ALL affected me and i am sympathetic to them ALL and i STILL say that you are crying wolf regarding vws

you seemingly know very little about ANY minorites and seem very eager to point the finger at people who have evidently had more varied life experiences than you and you could learn a lot from them

How often do you hear people talk about nadia using the transexual card? are you only saying that because of this thread that she used it? obviously there is about 3.8 million people who think she didnt..even though her whole essence of her is about her being a transexual..things differ when someone mentions race than someone who mentions about transexuals. If nadia made a speech about how she felt she got discriminated in a shop or something about her being a man before in her life then i can garentee that the papers would love that story..and that millions of people would be angered by it..but if someone black or asian made a point that they felt a shop keeper was racist to them in a shop..only a few would be angered by it..like i said before..in the year 2004 gay/transexual people are more common in society ..there were people voting for her that felt sorry for her..i had seen it with my own eyes when big brother was on..now i never said that victor suffered 100 percent racism..but when i was on the big brother forum there were people calling him the N word..and yes there were some members of the BNP on there glad he was up that week and said they were going to vote him out hundreds of times..people say that these racists are only a small minority..but there are the only ones that proudly say they are racists..there are alot of hidden ones too..and they do make a difference

as i already answered you-A LOT of people criticised Nadia and accused her of absuing her position

the whole essence of her is about being a transsexual? what does that mean?

i really dont get how you have come to a conclusion about how you have had more life experience than me..i have just not chose to post about my life on here like you have..and the rest of that what you have wrote i feel that you are either just posting to suit your point or just is your opinion

what i meant was that she came on the show with the "i am a transexual please accept me" attitude and she left with the "i am the transexual please accept me" attitude..and you say alot of people accused her of using this card but which people? the people that you know? thats hardly an impact to the 3.8 million votes that she got to win..there are always a few that always hate against something but i am talking about bigger figures than just your family and friends

because you are making points like a 15 year old and ignoring genuine life experiences that people have mentioned.your opinions are so painfully biased i assumed you were only young and inexperienced

i have posted about my life bacause i felt it was relevant to the discussion and to possibly show you contrary opinion to your own when you have made such bold statements as "no one plays the gay card" when in fact anyone who has seen ANYTHING of life should know that these things DO happen
of course i write to suit my point-its called evidence because i can and because it is true.unfortunately you have done nothing but accuse and spout hypothetical arguments that are neither relevant or true

why shouldnt she have that attitude? she had taken crap from people for years and expected it from the general public.i think you'll find she was humble and grateful about her aceptance
loads of people accused her of it-on here,in real life,in the media,not just in my life.just because you didnt see it doesnt make it untrue