oh here comes the famous contradiction

its ok for her to use the transexual card because she feels she has taken crap from people for years

but if someone posted on here that they felt they have been taking crap from people on here because they were black you would probably say they are using the race card like you have been doing all through this thread

its clear you feel different about her suffering from being a transexual..than people who felt they suffered from racism,.,although now you will probbably post that you view them both the same..to suit your arguement

it all shows in your posts

again...only a matter of YOUR opinion

and again only as matter of YOUR opinion on whats true and whats not

Yeah right that's it. I changed my opinions 3 months after a throw away bit of TV finished just to wind you up.

All they was through I said she used the whole transexual thing to win votes, why not that was her angle adn it was obviously succesful


How do you make this leap ?

She won the show, she played the transexual card and people bit it, simple as that


At the moment they would for sure. For a simple reason, she is a minor celebrity and celebrity stories sell papers. I cannot imagine it would make headline in the Times or the Guardian


Depending on how severe the racism was this would be more likely to be picked up by a serious paper. I'm sorry to say that maybe minor racism wouldn't be covered, things like an Asian getting called 'pakki' or an Irishman a 'thick paddy'. That is simply because we know it happens, owever reprehensible it is it happens and as I ststed only education can resove this

Personally I was subjected to some disgusting racial abuse from a minority of people when I dated an asian girl, the bause came from not only white people but some of the worst came from the asian community, however I would not expect the newspapers to cover my story


I'd like to ses the figures from the National Audit Office that confirmed this statement


Yes there weer in the same way in the X factor there will be people who vote for VWS and Rowetta because they are coloured, 2 To Go because the boy is blind, Steve because he is 'sexy', G4 because they are homely, cassie because they get off on young girl. It happend like that people vote on these shows for all kinds of different reasons, get over it


No one is denying that these kind of people existm, every sane person knows they do. But that is not all people. The internet will attract people to it to make those kind of comments by it's very nature. A few bad eggs in any part of soceity does not mean that whole group is rotten


I don't like the fact that you are suggesting that racists are in the majorit in this country, how can you back this inference up. Not with your own opinions based on a bit of saturday night TV and one weeks voting but with real hard facts and figures.

You seemed to start this because you were infuratied at the racism in the voting the first week and you still haven'rt explained how only white people were in the vote this week

Hey PIV, 16 pages, sad isn't. I notice SIMPLY AMAZING hasn't replied to my post. Perhaps its an inconvenient factual fly in his/her rather dodgy looking soup. "Just ignore it and it'll go away" .

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...d.php?t=161942

Come on SIMPLY, why did those black people win UK reality shows if you're right? Reply please

as i already said i dont think she DID use the transsexual card she asked people to accept her and frankly i am still amazed they did considering some of the abuse she recieved in the media

and as i have said before i would take the individual case regarding anyone complaining of abuse on MERIT not just because they were black/gay/straight/transgender but as usual you choose to ignore that fact just like you frequently ignore other peoples posts because you cant think of an answer or the words they use are too complicated for you.troll away...........

Two competitions out of how many? For those two you have mentioned there are many more that Black people/ people of ethnic minority haven't won.

but how many ethnic minorities applied? how GOOD were they? unless we even know those type of statistics its redundant even arguing

And why exactly should a minority win them all ? This is not a racist comment, but your statement infuriates me are we saying that special treatment in gameshows and reality shows has to be handed out to black and minorities. Thinking of BB there were 2 'non-white' contestants, why therefore should one of them be expected to win ?

I am not saying that people from minority ethnic groups should win all the competitions but when they are good what's stopping them from winning; besides people's stereotyped views of them and people's belief that they can't identify with them?
I asking for a level playing field for the minority contestants, people are too eager to judge people from minority groups, on the forum alone, people have called VWS loud and obnoxious when they have been more quite and reserved than some of the other contestants, their observation comes from the fact that they have seen big loud black women and choose to paint them all with the same brush.
If a black contestant is talented why shouldn't they be given a fair chance? Why should anyone from an ethnic minority be expected not to win because they have won two competitions no one really remembers in the past?

Absolutely nothing at all. But they have to be considered good enough by the majority of voters


I still cannot acceot that so much suggested racism actually exists in reality contests. I would love to see some real statistical analysis of this



Some of the others is the key comment here. I would say Rowetta has been the loudest and most overboard, and is also black so surely she meets you stereotypical mold, but she has not been in the bottom 2 as yet


I can accept that a minority of people may see this


As far as I can tell they are getting a fair chance. Are they forced to sing behind a screen ? For less time than anyone else ? In a seperate studio ? Without backing tracks ? Without a dedicated voting line ?


Of course they shouldn't be expected to win or expected to loose. They should succedd on their own merits. Personally I expect to see Rowetta in at least the final 3 if not the overall winner. VWS on the other hand do not psosses what I copnsider to be 'it'. They have nice enough voices, sing stuff I like and have nice personalities, but for me there is a spark missing for some reason. This may change as the weeks go on, but because I don't think they have the ability to make it big does not make me racist.

Rowetta isn't black; she is mixed race. And I don't remember suggesting that the viewers were racist.

The thrust of this thread is the inherhant racism of the great voting public isn't it ? VWS were not voted for because they are black. I note when I put forward a valid reason for NOT voting for them it is ignored.

So Rowetta isn't black fair enough, but she isn't white either and a racist voting public would not vote for her either. Or are we now suggesting that there is a certain level of blackness that has to be attained before you can cry racism ?

All you have said here just proves that they are given a fair chance by the producers and the judges but it does not say anything about the audience.

Again the implication that the voting audience is racist. I gave you my reason for not voting for them, but that obviously isn't good enough.

A fair chance can only be given on the show, lets face it how many people wanted Verity off becuase of her age ? I'm sure there are a lot out there. You cannot dictate to the audience who they should vote for, no point in having a voting system at all then.

Out of intrest has VWS complianed of racism in the voting ? Or did they know how the show worked.

What aboute Rowetta then, is she not Black enough for race to be an issue, or is she too white for support ?

As i said ealier, I can't remember suggesting racism being involved the voting system, if you can produce a post by me saying "the viewers are racist" then , I'll defend myself and my thoughts, I didn't start the thread, I only got involved, I suggest you check out my very first post on this thread. No, I am not suggesting anything.

Again, you believe I am implying, I believe I am not.


Voting Verity off had nothing to do with her age, she was a shit singer.


Do you really expect VWS to come out and say the viewers are racist? Being mixed race has always been a very "neither there nor here" issue, I doubt the viewers think too much about which side she leans towards when they are voting...Is there a mixed race stereotype?

But you are as soon as you say the audience vote on stereotypes you imply racism


In your opinion, of course your opinion is flavored because of her age - see it's easy to make these assumptions


So yiou are saying they are tolerating racism and that Rowetta isn't black enough to count in these arguments.

No I don't, when i say the audience vote on race then I imply racism.


Were you on this forum last week? There were threads from here to china questioning the fact the Verity wasn't part of the both two and stating the fact that she is a mediocre singer.


I am not in VWS' mind and do not keep track of their thoughts so how do you expect me to know whether of not they believe racism was a factor in the vote and if they are tolerant to racism, aren't we all tolerant in our own way?
Rowetta isn't black she is mixed race and I could ask the same question..."Is Rowetta not white enough to not excluded from this argument?"

so if you arent implying that the public are racist what are you implying here? lazy thinking?

I think people (me included) have overtime developed a much distorted view of what racism is, if I say I can’t make bangers and mash, no one thinks me an inept cook, they just think racist. All my post said (put simply) was that people have stereotyped views of people of ethnic minority and in this case big black women; their views come from images they have seen mostly in the media, take three non-blondes as funny as that show was; you can’t help but realise that people were left with the impression that big black women tend to be loud and obnoxious, that is the image viewers have in mind and I doubt anyone would eagerly vote someone who they believe is loud and obnoxious.

Sorry I was in a rush so didn't form my point enough. The implication is people vote on RACIAL stereotype, which by your own admission means as teh audience are voting on race you are implying racism



No I was away with my work


Without doubt theirst week she was very poor, however this week she was vastly improved and certainly put in a better performance than '2 to Go'.


Ok fair point an an attempt at a cheap score on my behalf, after the event it would be intresting to see if they considered the first weeks voting to be racialy motivated


I refuse to answer that as any answer woul;d be turned on it's head


So you are saying that as a mixed race person Rowetta is somehow less not white than a black person. That to me is some kind of perverse racism

Her performance was dull and unmoving, the choir was the best part because they drowned her voice out.



I don't get this?!

I noticed you decied not to explain how you aren't implying racism


But that is only your opinion which is coloured by her age and your stereotype of how a 50 year old white divorcee would sing.


No nither do I

Early start and a long day, let me think again. What I was trying to convey was.

As Rowetta is of mixed race, she is not considered 'black' by those people saying that VWS werer the victim of racist voting. And that inistelf is a form of racism
Last edited by Mark Ramsden : 01-11-2004 at 20:19

A lot of posts in this thread which I've only scanned through at times. Lots of real rubbish spoken at times, intermixed with some good points.

Amazing to think that, in reality, it's more than likely that VWS were in the bottom two last week purely because people didn't like them as much as another seven acts. Or is that just too simplistic for the distorted views of people like Simply Amazing? Or will this point of view have me labeled as ignorant or racist as well? After all, I had them bottom of the nine last week purely due to personal taste and judgement of their performance, but not this week.

Nope Damon, I don't think you will be seen as racist. In fact in this thread, which is becoming like Wimbledon (including myself as a player!), your post is so refreshing.