DS Forums

 
 

X Factor Just Shows The Prejudice In This Country....


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-11-2004, 23:39
baileybots
Banned User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,936
Originally Posted by Damon23
A lot of posts in this thread which I've only scanned through at times. Lots of real rubbish spoken at times, intermixed with some good points.

Amazing to think that, in reality, it's more than likely that VWS were in the bottom two last week purely because people didn't like them as much as another seven acts. Or is that just too simplistic for the distorted views of people like Simply Amazing? Or will this point of view have me labeled as ignorant or racist as well? After all, I had them bottom of the nine last week purely due to personal taste and judgement of their performance, but not this week.
you made my point better than i had, thanks
baileybots is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 02-11-2004, 08:56
cybergirl3
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,660
Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
I noticed you decied not to explain how you aren't implying racism
That is because I have said over and over again that I wasn't implying racism. I having a stertypical view doesn't make you racist. Am I racist for thinking goths are depressed people who wear black?

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
But that is only your opinion which is coloured by her age and your stereotype of how a 50 year old white divorcee would sing.
What makes you think that I think of her age when she sings? I don't even know a stereotype of a white 50 yrs old woman.


Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
No nither do I

Early start and a long day, let me think again. What I was trying to convey was.

As Rowetta is of mixed race, she is not considered 'black' by those people saying that VWS werer the victim of racist voting. And that inistelf is a form of racism
Rowetta is not considered black because she isn't black she is 50-50, a bit of black and a bit of white. Does it make me racist to acknowledge that she is mixed race? I could imply that you are racist for refusing to accept her as white...the street runs both ways. If you actually want to call her black (like some people have chosen to), there are people who would believe she adheres to a stereotype of the noisy black woman and openly call her "ronutta", we don't know how high or low she ranked in the voting, she might have received a very few votes because of her "outgoing" personality. She could have been in the bottom three for all that matters.
cybergirl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 09:17
Marci
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Being a "White" woman in a multiracial family, i have lived and fought rasism, but this program is about talent and personality and hopefully it will prove that people can see beyond the color of a persons skin
Marci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 09:18
Mark Ramsden
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,472
Originally Posted by cybergirl3
That is because I have said over and over again that I wasn't implying racism. I having a stertypical view doesn't make you racist..
But you said if the decision was made on race then it is racist, and if a RACIAL stereotype is what the decision is made on then the decision is made on RACE and is therefore by your own definition a RACIST decision.

So by implying the voting public made their decision primarily on a racist stereotype you are also implying that the public are on the whole racist

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
Am I racist for thinking goths are depressed people who wear black?..
No, mainly because goth isn't a race

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
What makes you think that I think of her age when she sings? I don't even know a stereotype of a white 50 yrs old woman.
So what makes you think that anyone thinks of people being black when they sing.

Double standards here, surely if someones colour can be a defining factor in how they are perceived so can their age ?

Or does ageism not fit yuor narrow definition of things that may mean you loose a reality show ?

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
Rowetta is not considered black .
By whom ? I'm sure you average BNP bigot would call her black

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
because she isn't black she is 50-50, a bit of black and a bit of white. Does it make me racist to acknowledge that she is mixed race? I could imply that you are racist for refusing to accept her as white...the street runs both ways.
Why am i not surprised that I am now painted as the racist

It seems strange to me that people will say that race stops people winning these shows, but when someone of a minority race does well, because they don't fit the argument they can be dismissed as 50-50. It smacks as pure racism to me. Rowetta isn't a true black (or should that be non-white) therefore she doesn't count.

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
If you actually want to call her black (like some people have chosen to), there are people who would believe she adheres to a stereotype of the noisy black woman and openly call her "ronutta", we don't know how high or low she ranked in the voting, she might have received a very few votes because of her "outgoing" personality. She could have been in the bottom three for all that matters.
She could have, and so could VWS this week, but it has NOTHING to do with race
Mark Ramsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 09:21
Kewpee
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Everywhere & nowhere
Posts: 50,028
Originally posted by cybergirl3

Rowetta is not considered black because she isn't black she is 50-50, a bit of black and a bit of white. Does it make me racist to acknowledge that she is mixed race? I could imply that you are racist for refusing to accept her as white...the street runs both ways. If you actually want to call her black (like some people have chosen to), there are people who would believe she adheres to a stereotype of the noisy black woman and openly call her "ronutta", we don't know how high or low she ranked in the voting, she might have received a very few votes because of her "outgoing" personality. She could have been in the bottom three for all that matters.
To rational people, Rowetta is mixed race. Racists would see her as black and would not even consider voting for her because of that.
Kewpee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 09:46
CaptainSensible
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,212
To me, Rowetta is just Rowetta: a decent singer with a love-it-or-hate-it deep thunderous voice, and a somewhat unhinged personality.
CaptainSensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 15:56
cybergirl3
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,660
Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
But you said if the decision was made on race then it is racist, and if a RACIAL stereotype is what the decision is made on then the decision is made on RACE and is therefore by your own definition a RACIST decision.
We are still going in circles here...

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
So by implying the voting public made their decision primarily on a racist stereotype you are also implying that the public are on the whole racist.
same as above.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
No, mainly because goth isn't a race.
no, but it is a stereotype common with white people.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
So what makes you think that anyone thinks of people being black when they sing.
The fact that it (skin colour) is glaring obvious might have something to do with it.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
Double standards here, surely if someones colour can be a defining factor in how they are perceived so can their age ? .
Age can be a determining fact but for me it isn't. If people can vote based on ages, why can't they vote based on race?

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
Or does ageism not fit yuor narrow definition of things that may mean you loose a reality show ?.
same as above.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
Why am i not surprised that I am now painted as the racist
You are so eager to paint me racist because I stated obvious (Rowetta is mixed race) when you were so eager to believe that she is black. I am just trying to show you that it works both ways, if I am racist for thinking Rowetta is not black, You are racist for thinking she has to be black...why can't she be white?

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
It seems strange to me that people will say that race stops people winning these shows, but when someone of a minority race does well, because they don't fit the argument they can be dismissed as 50-50. It smacks as pure racism to me. Rowetta isn't a true black (or should that be non-white) therefore she doesn't count.
People from minority groups RARELY do well in reality competitions anyway and you are assuming Rowetta is doing well but as I said she could be at the bottom of the vote for all that matters. this quote implies racism to me "non-white"...the word is mixed race...learn it. why can't you accept that she is mixed race anyway?

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
She could have, and so could VWS this week, but it has NOTHING to do with race
yes, only a stereotype
Till we see the voting figures for (all) the reality shows so far it is going to be hard to prove if race was involved in people's voting.
cybergirl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 16:39
Mark Ramsden
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,472
Originally Posted by cybergirl3
We are still going in circles here...

same as above.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I guess, I still firmly believe your implication is that all the people who didn't vote for VWS did it on a racial stereotype and therefore had a racist motive. You belive that people voted against them because of their racial stereotype but somehow that doesn't mean tthe lack of votes was racial motivted or racist

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
no, but it is a stereotype common with white people.
What we all wear black and are miserable ?

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
The fact that it (skin colour) is glaring obvious might have something to do with it. .
Verity was obviously an alder lady

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
Age can be a determining fact but for me it isn't. .
Why are you so perfect but every person who doesn't vote for a black act does it because of their race ?

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
If people can vote based on ages, why can't they vote based on race?.
I never said that no one voted because of race, I have little doubt that there is a minority of racially motivated voting. But the thrust of this thread is that the bulk of white voters did not vote for VWS for the simple reason of their race.

I am sure there are a certain proprtion of black people voting for VWS because the are black is that wrong ?

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
You are so eager to paint me racist because I stated obvious (Rowetta is mixed race) when you were so eager to believe that she is black. I am just trying to show you that it works both ways, if I am racist for thinking Rowetta is not black, You are racist for thinking she has to be black...why can't she be white?.
FFS she is not white, sorry and all that but her skin colour is glaringly not white is it ?

My point is that for some reason you refuse to accept Rowetta as coloured for some reason

That ether has to be because her not being in the bottom 2 (she may have been 3rd bottom so what) puts a hole in your theory that the voting was completely racially motivated, otherwise both the black and mixed race act would have been bottom of the pile

Or for some reason a mixed race person is somehow imune from racism

Or you have a problem with her mixed race

Originally Posted by cybergirl3
People from minority groups RARELY do well in reality competitions anyway and you are assuming Rowetta is doing well but as I said she could be at the bottom of the vote for all that matters. this quote implies racism to me "non-white"...the word is mixed race...learn it. why can't you accept that she is mixed race anyway?
I have no problem with her being mixed race, what do you assume I can't accept it ?

My "non White" comment was taken out of context somewhat (are you a journalist ?) as I was making the point that for some reason Rowetta isn't considered black (or coloured) by you for some reason. As I said she blatentlt isn't white and I cannot see how you can argue she is. She has a mixed heritag and black skin. As i have said elsewhere your average bigot would not look at her and say she is white woud they
Mark Ramsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 16:43
emzy.c.
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,054
Why is evryone getting so worked up about it all, everyone's skin colour is different, that doesnt alter their ability to sing or determine the type of person they are. Can't you just sit back and enjoy the music and stop depressing others with this constant racism crap
emzy.c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 16:55
harvs98
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North London, UK
Posts: 16
I've read all of this post and only now have decided to put it my 2p. When I saw VWS in the bottom 2 groups, I screamed "Its because they're black!"

Reason being, I came to the conclusion that the voters vote for 'their friend' or 'I wouldnt mind them as a friend' BEFORE talent comes into the equation. And 3 fat, black, middle aged women is not the majority of the nations "cup of tea" and therefore not their first choice for voting.

The fact that they were first choice this week is that they got the sympathy vote OVER their talent.

I think its more down to personal choice rather than all out racism. Its a very unfair system as IMO there should be more black people in the final 9 but the judges know who the public will choose over talent.

This show is about the judges and not showcasing British talent.
harvs98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 17:06
Mark Ramsden
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,472
Originally Posted by harvs98
I've read all of this post and only now have decided to put it my 2p. When I saw VWS in the bottom 2 groups, I screamed "Its because they're black!" .
Arghhhhhhh !!!!

Originally Posted by harvs98
Reason being, I came to the conclusion that the voters vote for 'their friend' or 'I wouldnt mind them as a friend' BEFORE talent comes into the equation.
That's an intresting take on the subject

Originally Posted by harvs98
And 3 fat, black, middle aged women is not the majority of the nations "cup of tea" and therefore not their first choice for voting.
Honestly I doubt colour comes into it too much in your scenario, you can easily say "3 fat middle aged women are not the majority of the nations 'cup of tea' "

Which I think has more of a ring of truth about it than the colour of the women

Originally Posted by harvs98
The fact that they were first choice this week is that they got the sympathy vote OVER their talent.
I actually think they were a lot better this week. My personal bottom 2 were '2 to Go' as I don't think the girl has the voice and G4 because the song chopice was awful and their 'attitude to cemera poses' made me cringe

Originally Posted by harvs98
I think its more down to personal choice rather than all out racism. Its a very unfair system as IMO there should be more black people in the final 9 but the judges know who the public will choose over talent..
Why should there be more Black contestants ? Are Black people naturally more talented ?

Why are there no Asians, Jews, Palestinians, Arabs, Greeks, Spanish, Americans, Afghans, Russians in that case ?

Originally Posted by harvs98
This show is about the judges and not showcasing British talent.
Ain't that the truth. Moreso than any of the other shows it is simply an ego massage for Louis a, Sharon and Simon
Mark Ramsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 17:16
harvs98
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North London, UK
Posts: 16
I agree with you Mark on that one, I should of edited my post a bit better.... thanks.

But when I said there should have been more black people... I meant when the judges were choosing the final 9 out of the selection they had. Sorry for the confusion. 3 groups I wanted to see in this competition were the group of black guys who had group co-ordination on clothes each week, the group of Asian boys and the multi-culteral, multi-age, multi-style, multi-weight group of young boys who sung "youre my baby-boo" hahahhaha
harvs98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 19:42
cybergirl3
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,660
Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I guess, I still firmly believe your implication is that all the people who didn't vote for VWS did it on a racial stereotype and therefore had a racist motive. You belive that people voted against them because of their racial stereotype but somehow that doesn't mean tthe lack of votes was racial motivted or racist
No, it doesn’t because not all the votes placed against them was placed based on a stereotype but a modest amount was.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
What we all wear black and are miserable ?
Probably . Someone out there believes that!

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
Why are you so perfect
I just am...

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
but every person who doesn't vote for a black act does it because of their race ?
False

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
I never said that no one voted because of race, I have little doubt that there is a minority of racially motivated voting. But the thrust of this thread is that the bulk of white voters did not vote for VWS for the simple reason of their race.
True

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
I am sure there are a certain proprtion of black people voting for VWS because the are black is that wrong ?
It is if they (VWS) don't have an iota of talent.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
FFS she is not white, sorry and all that but her skin colour is glaringly not white is it ?

My point is that for some reason you refuse to accept Rowetta as coloured for some reason
I honestly find the word "coloured" offensive and racist as it was used during the apartheid. I accept that Rowetta is dark skinned and of mixed race.

Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
That ether has to be because her not being in the bottom 2 (she may have been 3rd bottom so what) puts a hole in your theory that the voting was completely racially motivated, otherwise both the black and mixed race act would have been bottom of the pile.
I find it hard to believe that two people/acts (who are really good singers) from minority groups being in the bottom three is not enough to prove that a part (no matter how little or much) of the voting is racially motivated. Rowetta could very well be in the bottom three but since the results are read “in no particular order”, it is hard to tell.


Originally Posted by Mark Ramsden
Or for some reason a mixed race person is somehow imune from racism

Or you have a problem with her mixed race

I have no problem with her being mixed race, what do you assume I can't accept it ?
I “assumed” you couldn’t accept it because you are (were) hell-bent on proving that Rowetta is black while is only dark skinned and mixed race.

Last edited by cybergirl3 : 02-11-2004 at 19:44. Reason: typo
cybergirl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 19:47
idontthinkso
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 1,300
Originally Posted by SIMPLY AMAZING
HOW IN THE LIVING HELL WERE VOICES OF SOUL IN THE BOTTOM TWO???? they were EASILY one of the top 3 acts..even the judges knew it..its because they are BLACK and people just dont want to vote for them..its disguisting..in every single competition where there is a phone vote ethnics never do well..i am absolutly appauled..you can argue about every other competition but in THIS one how in the hell were they there..its almost as if they are garenteed to be voted out next week..why cant people just look at talent rather than there skin..some of the others just got the sympaphy vote..as for others..tabby sung awful..
i donthink racism had anything to do with this. tabby has a lot of supporters even though he is s***. voices with soul were in the bottom 2 because all there fans had fainted when that wig came off.

THEEND
idontthinkso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 20:01
cybergirl3
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,660
Originally Posted by idontthinkso
i donthink racism had anything to do with this. tabby has a lot of supporters even though he is s***. voices with soul were in the bottom 2 because all there fans had fainted when that wig came off.

THEEND
LOL!

(ten characters)
cybergirl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2004, 22:32
jodie1
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 502
the political correctness card again. VWS are boring and bigheaded they did not treat lovely roberta well when she got the boot. They should go next.
jodie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 00:18
DryHumper
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by cybergirl3
Two competitions out of how many? For those two you have mentioned there are many more that Black people/ people of ethnic minority haven't won.
This argument is starting to get farcical. The main argument was "black people never win reality tv because of racism", I think that's been disproved. You now seem to be making an argument that black people should win reality tv shows half the time or something. Considering black people are, at a guess, probably about a 15 to a 20th of the population, a statistic of a black person winning reality tv about one in 15 times would be probably be about right, and I don't think the stats are probably too far off that mark.

If theres 15x more white people in Britain, and therefore roughly 15x more white people apply for Xfactor than black people, that means theres roughly 15x the talent pool (if you regard the different races to be about equally talented, that is). Therefore you get more white finalists and it's going to be more likely that you end up with a white winner.

And of course, people vote for reality tv contestants for a 101 different reasons. Hell I think some of them even vote for people on X Factor because they like their performance the best .
DryHumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 07:04
metafis
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kataan
Posts: 10,939
Originally Posted by DryHumper
.

And of course, people vote for reality tv contestants for a 101 different reasons. Hell I think some of them even vote for people on X Factor because they like their performance the best .
Lol, now theres a thing, voting for someone cos you like their performance the best, hmmm..might just catch on you know
metafis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 11:07
Roz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 1,427
Originally Posted by ~V~
well if no ethnic people enter, there would be no acts at all.
Now that comment IS rascist!
Roz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 11:46
jodie1
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 502
how can it be racist - only if there is intention to hurt behind it - lighten up.
jodie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 12:18
Peppermint
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 240
Oh my god in heaven above, why all this crap, what the hell has it got to do wiv colour, next it will be he is Jewish and thats why no one voted for them!

I love some brilliant black singers, but dont mean I have to love VWS as I dont. Dont mean to say I have to love Rowetta as I dont, but Roxanne on the other hand was totally awesome, Zoe was out of this world amazing so get real.

Oh hell I sees this over on that over site I likes and thinks OH YUK how immature and petty and stupid and the person saying it seem to be the damn racist, then I comes here and finds it worse even than over there.

Most people dont give a hoot for the colour just the voices and quality. Have to agree though with lets SAY its sexist as all ladies in bottom 2 the first week!

I think this is a bunch of saddos chatting if all you cansay is its rascim, get real the first one out was WHITE man, and very gorgeous as well. The second one out was WHITE too, hell did yer not notice! and she was fab.

So if a black lot go this week then it is racist HELL which planet are you lot really one! glad I aint there wiv yer is all I can say.

Peppermint (Soda)

www.********************

and I hope that site aint started this crappy topic again! I will complain to the lady if they have, what a bore!
Peppermint is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:31.