you made my point better than i had, thanks

That is because I have said over and over again that I wasn't implying racism. I having a stertypical view doesn't make you racist. Am I racist for thinking goths are depressed people who wear black?


What makes you think that I think of her age when she sings? I don't even know a stereotype of a white 50 yrs old woman.



Rowetta is not considered black because she isn't black she is 50-50, a bit of black and a bit of white. Does it make me racist to acknowledge that she is mixed race? I could imply that you are racist for refusing to accept her as white...the street runs both ways. If you actually want to call her black (like some people have chosen to), there are people who would believe she adheres to a stereotype of the noisy black woman and openly call her "ronutta", we don't know how high or low she ranked in the voting, she might have received a very few votes because of her "outgoing" personality. She could have been in the bottom three for all that matters.

Being a "White" woman in a multiracial family, i have lived and fought rasism, but this program is about talent and personality and hopefully it will prove that people can see beyond the color of a persons skin

But you said if the decision was made on race then it is racist, and if a RACIAL stereotype is what the decision is made on then the decision is made on RACE and is therefore by your own definition a RACIST decision.

So by implying the voting public made their decision primarily on a racist stereotype you are also implying that the public are on the whole racist


No, mainly because goth isn't a race


So what makes you think that anyone thinks of people being black when they sing.

Double standards here, surely if someones colour can be a defining factor in how they are perceived so can their age ?

Or does ageism not fit yuor narrow definition of things that may mean you loose a reality show ?


By whom ? I'm sure you average BNP bigot would call her black


Why am i not surprised that I am now painted as the racist

It seems strange to me that people will say that race stops people winning these shows, but when someone of a minority race does well, because they don't fit the argument they can be dismissed as 50-50. It smacks as pure racism to me. Rowetta isn't a true black (or should that be non-white) therefore she doesn't count.


She could have, and so could VWS this week, but it has NOTHING to do with race

To rational people, Rowetta is mixed race. Racists would see her as black and would not even consider voting for her because of that.

To me, Rowetta is just Rowetta: a decent singer with a love-it-or-hate-it deep thunderous voice, and a somewhat unhinged personality.

We are still going in circles here...


same as above.


no, but it is a stereotype common with white people.


The fact that it (skin colour) is glaring obvious might have something to do with it.


Age can be a determining fact but for me it isn't. If people can vote based on ages, why can't they vote based on race?


same as above.


You are so eager to paint me racist because I stated obvious (Rowetta is mixed race) when you were so eager to believe that she is black. I am just trying to show you that it works both ways, if I am racist for thinking Rowetta is not black, You are racist for thinking she has to be black...why can't she be white?


People from minority groups RARELY do well in reality competitions anyway and you are assuming Rowetta is doing well but as I said she could be at the bottom of the vote for all that matters. this quote implies racism to me "non-white"...the word is mixed race...learn it. why can't you accept that she is mixed race anyway?


yes, only a stereotype
Till we see the voting figures for (all) the reality shows so far it is going to be hard to prove if race was involved in people's voting.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I guess, I still firmly believe your implication is that all the people who didn't vote for VWS did it on a racial stereotype and therefore had a racist motive. You belive that people voted against them because of their racial stereotype but somehow that doesn't mean tthe lack of votes was racial motivted or racist


What we all wear black and are miserable ?


Verity was obviously an alder lady


Why are you so perfect but every person who doesn't vote for a black act does it because of their race ?


I never said that no one voted because of race, I have little doubt that there is a minority of racially motivated voting. But the thrust of this thread is that the bulk of white voters did not vote for VWS for the simple reason of their race.

I am sure there are a certain proprtion of black people voting for VWS because the are black is that wrong ?


FFS she is not white, sorry and all that but her skin colour is glaringly not white is it ?

My point is that for some reason you refuse to accept Rowetta as coloured for some reason

That ether has to be because her not being in the bottom 2 (she may have been 3rd bottom so what) puts a hole in your theory that the voting was completely racially motivated, otherwise both the black and mixed race act would have been bottom of the pile

Or for some reason a mixed race person is somehow imune from racism

Or you have a problem with her mixed race


I have no problem with her being mixed race, what do you assume I can't accept it ?

My "non White" comment was taken out of context somewhat (are you a journalist ?) as I was making the point that for some reason Rowetta isn't considered black (or coloured) by you for some reason. As I said she blatentlt isn't white and I cannot see how you can argue she is. She has a mixed heritag and black skin. As i have said elsewhere your average bigot would not look at her and say she is white woud they

Why is evryone getting so worked up about it all, everyone's skin colour is different, that doesnt alter their ability to sing or determine the type of person they are. Can't you just sit back and enjoy the music and stop depressing others with this constant racism crap

I've read all of this post and only now have decided to put it my 2p. When I saw VWS in the bottom 2 groups, I screamed "Its because they're black!"

Reason being, I came to the conclusion that the voters vote for 'their friend' or 'I wouldnt mind them as a friend' BEFORE talent comes into the equation. And 3 fat, black, middle aged women is not the majority of the nations "cup of tea" and therefore not their first choice for voting.

The fact that they were first choice this week is that they got the sympathy vote OVER their talent.

I think its more down to personal choice rather than all out racism. Its a very unfair system as IMO there should be more black people in the final 9 but the judges know who the public will choose over talent.

This show is about the judges and not showcasing British talent.

Arghhhhhhh !!!!


That's an intresting take on the subject


Honestly I doubt colour comes into it too much in your scenario, you can easily say "3 fat middle aged women are not the majority of the nations 'cup of tea' "

Which I think has more of a ring of truth about it than the colour of the women


I actually think they were a lot better this week. My personal bottom 2 were '2 to Go' as I don't think the girl has the voice and G4 because the song chopice was awful and their 'attitude to cemera poses' made me cringe


Why should there be more Black contestants ? Are Black people naturally more talented ?

Why are there no Asians, Jews, Palestinians, Arabs, Greeks, Spanish, Americans, Afghans, Russians in that case ?


Ain't that the truth. Moreso than any of the other shows it is simply an ego massage for Louis a, Sharon and Simon

I agree with you Mark on that one, I should of edited my post a bit better.... thanks.

But when I said there should have been more black people... I meant when the judges were choosing the final 9 out of the selection they had. Sorry for the confusion. 3 groups I wanted to see in this competition were the group of black guys who had group co-ordination on clothes each week, the group of Asian boys and the multi-culteral, multi-age, multi-style, multi-weight group of young boys who sung "youre my baby-boo" hahahhaha

No, it doesn’t because not all the votes placed against them was placed based on a stereotype but a modest amount was.


Probably . Someone out there believes that!


I just am...


False


True


It is if they (VWS) don't have an iota of talent.


I honestly find the word "coloured" offensive and racist as it was used during the apartheid. I accept that Rowetta is dark skinned and of mixed race.


I find it hard to believe that two people/acts (who are really good singers) from minority groups being in the bottom three is not enough to prove that a part (no matter how little or much) of the voting is racially motivated. Rowetta could very well be in the bottom three but since the results are read “in no particular order”, it is hard to tell.



I “assumed” you couldn’t accept it because you are (were) hell-bent on proving that Rowetta is black while is only dark skinned and mixed race.
Last edited by cybergirl3 : 02-11-2004 at 19:44

i donthink racism had anything to do with this. tabby has a lot of supporters even though he is s***. voices with soul were in the bottom 2 because all there fans had fainted when that wig came off.

THEEND

LOL!

(ten characters)

the political correctness card again. VWS are boring and bigheaded they did not treat lovely roberta well when she got the boot. They should go next.

This argument is starting to get farcical. The main argument was "black people never win reality tv because of racism", I think that's been disproved. You now seem to be making an argument that black people should win reality tv shows half the time or something. Considering black people are, at a guess, probably about a 15 to a 20th of the population, a statistic of a black person winning reality tv about one in 15 times would be probably be about right, and I don't think the stats are probably too far off that mark.

If theres 15x more white people in Britain, and therefore roughly 15x more white people apply for Xfactor than black people, that means theres roughly 15x the talent pool (if you regard the different races to be about equally talented, that is). Therefore you get more white finalists and it's going to be more likely that you end up with a white winner.

And of course, people vote for reality tv contestants for a 101 different reasons. Hell I think some of them even vote for people on X Factor because they like their performance the best .

Lol, now theres a thing, voting for someone cos you like their performance the best, hmmm..might just catch on you know

Now that comment IS rascist!

how can it be racist - only if there is intention to hurt behind it - lighten up.

Oh my god in heaven above, why all this crap, what the hell has it got to do wiv colour, next it will be he is Jewish and thats why no one voted for them!

I love some brilliant black singers, but dont mean I have to love VWS as I dont. Dont mean to say I have to love Rowetta as I dont, but Roxanne on the other hand was totally awesome, Zoe was out of this world amazing so get real.

Oh hell I sees this over on that over site I likes and thinks OH YUK how immature and petty and stupid and the person saying it seem to be the damn racist, then I comes here and finds it worse even than over there.

Most people dont give a hoot for the colour just the voices and quality. Have to agree though with lets SAY its sexist as all ladies in bottom 2 the first week!

I think this is a bunch of saddos chatting if all you cansay is its rascim, get real the first one out was WHITE man, and very gorgeous as well. The second one out was WHITE too, hell did yer not notice! and she was fab.

So if a black lot go this week then it is racist HELL which planet are you lot really one! glad I aint there wiv yer is all I can say.

Peppermint (Soda)

www.********************

and I hope that site aint started this crappy topic again! I will complain to the lady if they have, what a bore!