[quote=kyresa]Why is it if someone doesn't like a white person it doesn't matter.. but if someone doesn't like a black person it's racism?QUOTE]

I agree with you 100% !!

There had to be 1. People like this idiot don't do people from minorities any favours whatsoever. The fact is the girls were out of tune and there were better performances from others tonight. That said, the general standard all round was no better than average at best. I certainly didn't see anyone to get excited about. It's looking like it's going to become more about the judges than the singers which is an absolute tragedy

[quote=Nic H]

and who the hell said it didn't matter. we weren't debating whether racism, in whatever form, existed or whether it was a 2-way street. That much is a given. We were exploring the likelihood of racism DIRECTLY affecting the outcome of the show

and who would the idiot be?

I'm not sure there's anyone left arguing about that. It's certainly possible that racism is a factor. So is the possibility people didnt like their style or their singing

I'm sure in a small way it does, along with the 10,000 other factors affecting the outcome of the show, like:
Looks
Sex
Hair colour
Figure
Personality
Talent
Voice
Where they are from
Age
Background
the list goes on.....

....but do we see fat people on here crying that VWS was on the bottom 2 because of their weight? Do we see women on here crying that VWS was on the bottom 2 because of their sex? No we don't. Of all the factors that could have caused them to be in the bottom 2, people are only discussing race....how odd.

actually the answer to both of your questions is yes. so you may as well retract that

Maybe the problem with this whole discussion was that the original post was so strong that everyone has waded in on the argument. All of the above factors came into account one way or another, which SIMPLY AMAZING likes it or not

For the reason I just gave you.


I've yet to see one.

Of course you know I'm open to suggestion AM, maybe that statement seemed a little dogmatic. In a situation like Big Brother, yes I accept that race can play a small part, though I like to think it has more to do with the public's identification with the contestants than any sense of hatred.


MTV was one example. Throw in every national radio station, every mainstream television show that involves music in any way, the UK charts themselves, every non-specific music retailer in the country...


Perhaps I'm being naive in my belief that most of X-Factor's viewers have some interest in music.

Completely agree - if the GBP cant relate to them then they aint gonna pick up the phone and vote, which picks up on a point someone else made pages back. If you voted for who you wanted to leave, I think you'd get a different result completely.

"Naive" is a bit harsh - but the average X-Factor voter, if not viewer, just wants to be entertained and musical ability comes a poor third to choice of song and to personality.

Songs and personality are a part of my definition of 'music'.

Would Gladys Knight have been so great if she'd released poor songs?

Would The Smiths have made such an impact if Morrissey wasn't such a character?

Would Dr Dre have been so influential if he was black?

Like you said.

Is Eminem less influential because he's white??

Are some of you seriously saying that some voters thought that VWS were the best act but declined to vote for them because they are black?

Some people do not appear to know how it works. You listen to and look at the 9 acts and decide who you like the best. If you feel strongly enough, you pick up the phone and vote for that act.

I didn't bother to vote. In my view VWS were somewhere in the middle. I suspect that loads of people liked them but they were just not their favourite.

I was shocked to see them in the bottom 2 and wish then well

Maybe I'm naive in thinking that X Factor is just trash TV. Most of X-Factor's viewers are interested in safe bland music, credibilty or talent is not really an issue.

ITV haven't got a mind-numbingly, soul destroying ITV Premiere drama starring James Nesbitt, or Ross Kemp on for a while yet, so for the next few weeks X Factor is a nice, pleasant relief to keep their brains numb and compliant.

Many viewers are made up of mums who have ended up in bad marriages and dream about what could have been. They love a good sob story and use these shows to see someone elses dreams come true, and imagine that could have been them if their dreams hadn't been smashed by a dull loveless marriage all those years ago. Maybe there are some nice looking boyband type clones on for her to occupy her still lustful mind and make her forget how unaffectionate her husband is to her.

When it comes to working out who has any credibility the ITV viewers just look to see what their pre-pubecant kids think are "cool". They like to listen to cover versions of songs sung in the blandest manner possible, and love to see cheesey gimmicky bands like G4 absolutely murder classic records with a smile on their faces.

Her husband, facing a middle-life crisis wants to still appear that he isn't past it and that he is still relevant and trendy. He wants to believe that he can still pull, and has to look like he knows his music. He just votes for who he thinks is cool and trendy, and often comments on songs that he likes "having a good beat".

The mother in law belongs to the blue-rinse brigade section of the viewers haven't got a clue, so listens to covers of old classics that have a retro edge to them, so they think that's cool. Old classics that remind them of their youth, sung by a young fresh face with a duh duh duh dance beat that makes them think it must be what the kids go for.

Their teenge kids are out clubbing, getting wasted, and shagging.
MTV is on the other channel,...the family is watching ....The X Factor.

That's what they know about music.

Yes, X Factor viewers watch the show really hoping to see something like The Smiths or Dr Dre don't they?

They really appreciate that sort of talent and genius, after all its the sort of music they want to buy.

Well that probably accounts for a proportion of the x factor viewing public, what pecentage I could not comment upon

Just out of interest - how many of the posters here are black? Perhaps one or two, but I expect the majority are white people arguing the toss. Well, I'm black (pic on profile if anybody's interested), and here's my perspective:

- There is far much more than colour to consider when you think about the voting. Size and age; factors that should not, in a perfect world, matter, but do, also have an effect.

- It's quite acceptible for a white person not to like the voice of a black person. This does not make him/her racist. It could be a matter of personal choice, although I do think that ethnicity has a subtle effect on this, as people tend to like the familiar.

- Some people will have disliked the sight /sound of Voices of Soul for no other reason than colour. This is because racism does exist, sometimes overtly, sometimes on a more subtle level. I know - I've been called a range of racist names in my time. It hurts, but you rise above it.

- Threads like this are sometimes unhelpful because it gives the impression that no-one, not even the PC brigade, can see beyond colour. Perhaps the fairest way would be to have a competition on the radio.

- Having a sense of humour does wonders putting things into perspective. Hence the username. Sometimes it can be misconstrued, however - a while ago somebody on another forum complained about my username, accusing me of deliberately having a dig at blondes. I point out that my real name is Dizzy (a shortened version) and the blonde referred to my hair, which was blonde at the time. Just shows that someone will always take offence at the most innocent of things. My philosophy is - keep smiling!

Six of one a half dozen of the other might be a fair estimate.

I liked your viewers. They are the reason there has always been crap in the charts. OK, they may not be able to name the original Ramones but their opinion is as valid as mine. For their sins, they know what music they like.

I suppose I'm still clinging to Pop Idol 1. There's no doubt that in that instance, music won the day.

Why not, that would be great

Maybe Tabby has it in him, I'm sure he thinks that he does

That wasn't really my point.

...as well you know.

I repeat that it's complicated. People just vote for their favourites. Occasionally, at this stage in the competition some people vote for a couple of acts. You don't however, vote for EVERY act you like and ignore the others

Touché

To be fair, Eminem wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Dre.

Well yes, I was just highlighting the potential difference even further.

I thought the prospect of working out the percentage to be too scary to contemplate.