I thought this series was going to see the emphasis shift onto the skating. That's the impression I got last week.

But yet again, so many of the VT's revolved around whether a celebrity could master a particular lift. Is it worth it though, given the number of injuries that are being sustained? Jen looked like she was in genuine agony and Charlene was complaining about her ribs on Twitter all week.

And I agreed with Katarina. Chemmy isn't as petite as some of the other girls so it was always going to be more difficult for her to get up into that lift position. Instead of wasting so much time and energy trying to nail it, T & D should have focused on Chemmy's strengths - her skating. She's so powerful and speedy across the ice.

Seriously, I can take or leave the lifts. There's only so many times I can be wowed by them.

I'm also not keen on routines beginning off the ice. I can't remember so many routines starting this way before.

Same, I cant remember so much blathering around before they get onto the Ice, which is what its all about. yea I can see the point in nice lines in a lift/hold etc but really its about the skating, not what makes a pretty picture and I wish that DOI would get that the one thing they do have to make the show a bit different is the blades.

This week was all about dancing off the ice and lifts, I was very confused. The lifts take over and I'm not sure what was going on this week but nearly every other contestant started their routine off the ice. I was not impressed.

More steps on the ice, please, as Nicky might say.

It was interesting to here Katarina's comments to Chemmy about concentrating on what she does best rather than attempting lifts just for the sake of it.
That should be the guiding principle for the show.

Also,yes,enough with the dance routines on dry land.It's alright as a gimmick with someone like Vanilla Ice but it is getting ridiculous.

I think it would be better if they just worked on their basic skating for the first couple of weeks and then started to incorporate the lifts in week 3. A programme doesn't need lifts to be exciting or graceful or whatever and if they spent more time on the actual skating then the lifts would be a lot nicer to watch because most of the celebrities don't finish the move off properly and it looks sloppy.
Jorgie is a prime example of this. When she's in the air she looks so graceful and lovely but her landing position needs a lot of work. That's a problem that should have been addressed in week one but wasn't.

A lot of the lifts are downright ugly, with the female celebrity's bottom thrust towards the camera, and when the male celebs are lifting their female partners it's rarely smooth coming in and out of the lift.

What happened to the 'required elements?'

I think its one thing to do all the like Bonnie, Claire Buckfield and Jorgie are doing - because they are pretty spectacular because they are able to do them but seeing the others being dragged around like a sack of potatoes is horrible.

Jennifer has some grace in her lifts and Daniel seems good at doing lifts that suit both of them - he's not going to be able to lift her up with one hand though doesn't mean he can't show off Jennifer a bit with the lifts. Chemmy by the same token should focus on her strengths - have to say I'm not overly impressed with her partner. I think he is one of the weakest of the male pros.

To be fair since Bonnie in series one there's always been a premium placed on lifts, particularly for the more petite female skaters so it's nothing new. But I agree that I'd rather see some decent work on the ice rather than the same old same old (and that includes the headbanger). Charlene in particular tonight was lifts and nothing but :yawn:

Chemmy could be the one that breaks the mould if she takes on board the comments tonight as constructive criticism and skates to her strengths

If Chemmy gives up on the big lifts and works on her skating she could be a real contender. With muscles like those she could really propel herself off the ice when it comes to jumps, if she can find the confidence.

Although I think there is a difference between the lifts and the mega (above head) mega lifts. The carrying them around the floor regular lifts are boring - but I enjoy some of the more spectacular lifts but only a few of the female celebs are able to do them.

I hate, hate, that weird crucifix lift they do where the female is hanging off the back of the male.

I think there are too many lifts - i would like to see more skating with the female contestants.

I think Jayne and Chris got a little lazy with Charlene this week - basically turning her into a marilyn tribute act

They really did not know what to do - it was almost as if she gets through great - if she doesn't - whatever

Looks like their showponies are getting the lions share of thought and coaching time

I agree completely.

T&D would have wrecked Suzanne Shaw's chances with too many lifts if the judges hadn't made a point of saying she was doing too many, and not enough skating.

I think Chloe had a disaster in last year's semi because her routine was one lift after another with practically no skating, and it was too much for her.

no she was doing a backwards cross over and her partner michael tripped over and she then fell over him

If anything the premium has gone up because the girl pros seem to me to be doing even more than usual. Equipped with male celebs who can't lift much, and can't jump or spin, or dance enough, some are even avoiding lifts by doing things that don't require much contribution from the male celeb at all. I don't recall them doing big jumps and spins around the male celeb so much before. Most of the difficulty, and all the TV highlights, in some male celbs routines came from their partner - in some cases they just held their female's hand before the female pro did a jump and spin they could have done on their own.

When all that is going on in the male celeb routines, the female celebs are going to have to do lifts. The top celeb girls can dance, probably better than any of the celeb males, and do so, but that doesn't register so much with either the skating judges, or the TV camera, or many viewers who seem to prefer to watch people moving fast doing nothing much. What really registers are the dymamic moves. The female celebs can't spin or jump like the pro girls, so they either get lifted or there's no competition and they look like they are doing nothing compared to the female pros.

Chemmy's performance had nothing to do with Chemmy. What she did was what she was given to do. Katerina and Robin were both criticising T and D's choregraphy. If T and D change, Chemmy may get something more appropriate to do. If they just carry on, she will be stuck trying to do routines that would be suitable for someone much shorter or an even taller , stronger, pro.

The problem is that many people see being lifted as doing nothing. And in a way they have a point. Even the very worst skaters such as Coleen Nolan were lifted.

I can see the difference between a female celeb who goes in and comes out of lifts smoothly and one where the lift is awkward, so I can see there's some skill involved.

But unless the lift is attractive I don't see what it adds to the dance at all. if the judges marked on skills rather than choreography it might help. Louis always points out that he is marking on choreography and I can't see the point of that because choice of music and choice of moves are out of the hands of the couple, so they're really marking Karen Barber, T & D and whoever else coaches them.

Yes, the female amateurs get any easy ride spending the majority of the time off the ice. They are held off the ice striking poses most of the time which is boring beyond belief.
Like Katarina, the man eater (watch it boys!), they should skate more. IMHO of course.
Poor old Rosemary (lovely woman of course) should go very soon.

The lifts arent always easy for the woman as Chemmy proved. Of course it easier for some like Jorgie. The fact that she was saved by her pants suggest she was mucking about in the lift too much and Matt being all he man saved her. Also some of the pro me are better at lifts than others being that same are pars skaters and others are ice dancers.

I like the guy, but I'm increasingly seeing Louie's role as a redundant one. After all, being figure skaters (and therefore receiving marks for artisitic impression as well as technical ability when they were competing), both Robin and Katerina are more than capable of assessing presentation (and they do so, you can tell from their comments). So if they are covering technique and performance, what does that leave Louie to do?

Still, I suppose I should be grateful that there are no longer two judges only looking at performance!

All these lifts are to hide poor skaters. LOL when Robin said that Jennifer "was magnificent when lifted".

If we look at the ISU guidelines for novice ice dancers, only 2 lifts (max 5 secs each) are allowed in a 3 minute program. No above shoulder lifts in ice dancing.
Other required elements are dance spin, step sequences and synchronized twizzles, which we hardly see in the routines.

Being marked and being able to mark are two different things - or we would let students mark themselves and they would give themselves 100% for putting everything they knew. Being able to act a bit isn't the same skill necessarily as being able to be a critic either, and marking requires a directors eye. As we saw last year, many skaters can't even choregraph themselves .It just so happens that Katerina and Robin can choregraph, can put on shows and can act more than most - so they can cover most of the ground. Neither of them has a trained eye for what works on a stage or small screen though and neither brings either a professional or a general audience perspective from someone in dancing/acting TV or show business. Actually Philiph is far more qualified to judge that.

Its fine if they talk about the performances as a whole, but Katerina is inclined to go on about risk or personal achievement- not relative merit. Her marks seem to reflect that, and anything positive she can see in the technique. She says who impressed her most - but she's by then given marks away for other things. Robin alternates between marking the whole picture, and descending into marking them on blade angles like Nicky used to. Frankly, its irrelevant whether they are skating in cloggs or doing everything all wrong technically if the final result flows, looks artistic or dramatic on screen and conveys the story and emotion of the choregraphy. That will require technique - but different routines and the different sexes will require different techniques Technique isn't an end in itself - it serves a higher purpose. You shouldn't get higher marks for something that has great technique - but has big weaknesses elsewhere and makes less impact - any more than the best handwriting should get top marks in an exam. You also need to mark the two sexes differently enough to reflect what male and females do on DOI, You shouldn't get marked as a female on your football skills, if your teachers have made you learn netball, and you demonstrated netball skills in your exam.

Louie is there to counter that, but he seems to be, or has defined himself as being, too narrow.He says he's there for the dance, but the performance needs more than the skates at the right angle and the fingers pointing as he would point his.I am still not convinced he is as broad as Jason, or even that qualified to comment on the acting.

On top of that they are still stuck with their two big marking problems. They are tending to criticise the routines (Charlene or Chemmy) or they don't get the idea behind the choregraphy (sebastien) They end up marking T and D. They also don't seem to allow for different difficulty in the routines consistently. Thats made worse when they deduct for errors - however much was right in the routine - Chemmy had more correct content than several people with much higher marks. They effectively gained by doing less and avoiding difficulty. You would have to avoid being too complex , but they ought to be able to solve both problems by saying this routine is worth a, say, 5 at best, T and D have given them the best routine they can do , lets mark it from there . You could then still give a 7 routine with a glating error a higher mark.Giving Chemmy a 3, and then blaming T and D, while throwing 6s at sheer enthusiasm in less difficult routines, just isn't good marking.

You answered your own point. Most people on DOI can't dance on solid ground let alone ice. Fewer can move their feet fast or take them off the ice on ice, fewer can spin, or twizzle, or jump, or flyover someone's head. Few females can be lifted overhead - as Chemmy discovered- and only the best can do a headbanger - as Roxanne showed.. If they didn't do simpler lifts, many people would be doing very little at all. As the female pros can dance, spin, jump and synchronise around a male - and can do it even if their male is pretty useless - you would end up with everyone just watching the pro females doing what you suggest and almost entirely just watching the celeb male's routines. Sam's routine was a good example where Sam got the praise and marks for Alexandra's flip - only two or three female celbs I think have ever done that move.

The issue is that the better female celebs can do the bigger lifts, and can dance, and do some of the tricks - but there's only ever been about half a dozen (if that) who can do a good range of different skills. There's even fewer males in that league and fewer with dancing skill too. Its just inevitable that much of the time you will see female pros gyrating around trying to distract attention from their weaker males, and male pros carrying weaker females as T and D couldn't think of anything else for them to do. The trick is to watch the minority who can do more, or who at least can act a bit.