[XxBlaKOuTZxX]

I have a Samsung ht-d5530 3D home cinema but Im not to keen on the speakers and I have an old speaker set-up from a Panasonic BT200 and both are 3 ohms. so would I be able to use the pana speakers with the Samsung without any sound problems ?. Thanks in advance

[chrisjr]

In theory yes.

The thing to watch out for is the power handling rating of the speakers. If the Samsung pokes out more watts than the Panasonic speakers can handle then you could have problems if you crank the thing up to 11.

[XxBlaKOuTZxX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

In theory yes.

The thing to watch out for is the power handling rating of the speakers. If the Samsung pokes out more watts than the Panasonic speakers can handle then you could have problems if you crank the thing up to 11.

Yeah I just checked that and the Samsung puts out higher power than the Panasonic. Do I go by rated input or max input.

according to the manual the Samsung is rated @ fronts 165W surround 165W centre 170W and sub 170W but max is 330W 330W 340W and 340W

Panasonic is rated at 125W for the front centre and surrounds

[gemma-the-husky]

i doubt if you will have a problem. The sub will take most of the heavy power. Satellite speakers can't draw much current for a bit of treble and mid-range

going loud is generally the issue, and the distortion when you go too loud, can damage an amp as much as a speaker

clipping (very technical article, but I can't find informal references)

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

[chrisjr]

There are many ways that manufacturers define power output. Some of them are basically, think of a number then double it and add some random big number on for good measure. In other words they are often a complete work of fiction.

With regards to the Samsung. The website specs say that it only consumes 70W when in operation. Yet it claims to produce 1000W from the amplifiers. So where do the other 930W come from then? Either Samsung are telling porkies about how much power the thing actually uses or they have found a means to break a fundamental law of physics.

So I would be very dubious about it's claims to output 1000W total. Much more likely is that it can produce 170W from each channel only if one channel at a time is driven. And when all are driven the average power per channel is very much less.

So on balance I doubt the fact the Panasonic speakers are rated 40 or so watts below the Samsung is going to make a lot of difference. I doubt the Samsung in normal use is going to get close to 120+ watts per channel with all channels blaring anyway.

And you would be surprised just how little power the amp is producing at normal listening volumes. It could be just single figure watts per channel. So provided you don't want to emulate a Motorhead concert at full bore you should be OK

[XxBlaKOuTZxX]

Ok thanks for your help

[fmradiotuner1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

There are many ways that manufacturers define power output. Some of them are basically, think of a number then double it and add some random big number on for good measure. In other words they are often a complete work of fiction.

With regards to the Samsung. The website specs say that it only consumes 70W when in operation. Yet it claims to produce 1000W from the amplifiers. So where do the other 930W come from then? Either Samsung are telling porkies about how much power the thing actually uses or they have found a means to break a fundamental law of physics.

So I would be very dubious about it's claims to output 1000W total. Much more likely is that it can produce 170W from each channel only if one channel at a time is driven. And when all are driven the average power per channel is very much less.

So on balance I doubt the fact the Panasonic speakers are rated 40 or so watts below the Samsung is going to make a lot of difference. I doubt the Samsung in normal use is going to get close to 120+ watts per channel with all channels blaring anyway.

And you would be surprised just how little power the amp is producing at normal listening volumes. It could be just single figure watts per channel. So provided you don't want to emulate a Motorhead concert at full bore you should be OK

True the only thing that would give you all that power might be a power amp from NAD or Marantz these cost over £1000 and then you still need an amp to.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmradiotuner1

True the only thing that would give you all that power might be a power amp from NAD or Marantz these cost over £1000 and then you still need an amp to.

Do you mean processor?

Had a few a pre/pro set ups in the past, Parasound Halo pre/pro, Rotel/Primare processor Bryston power amp, the heat sinks on the Bryston were something else, that was so powerful it was frightening.

[fmradiotuner1]

Something like this

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3930-nad-...source=froogle

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmradiotuner1

Something like this

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3930-nad-...source=froogle

That's a power amp, it's just the amplification stage that powers the speakers, you need a processor to hook up to it, (you said amp, did you mean processor?) this is what you connect your external equipment to, it also does all the decoding.

The matching component to the Nad 975 could be something like this.............

http://nadelectronics.com/products/h...d-Preamplifier

IMO pre/pro's are the next step when seriously upgrading from av receivers, it separates the amplification from the processing, a downside is you end up with two big units not just one, another is they ain't cheap.

[njp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

With regards to the Samsung. The website specs say that it only consumes 70W when in operation. Yet it claims to produce 1000W from the amplifiers. So where do the other 930W come from then? Either Samsung are telling porkies about how much power the thing actually uses or they have found a means to break a fundamental law of physics.

So I would be very dubious about it's claims to output 1000W total. Much more likely is that it can produce 170W from each channel only if one channel at a time is driven. And when all are driven the average power per channel is very much less.

If the "operating power" is a maximum rating (the only rating that makes any sense) then I don't even see where the 170W to one channel comes from. We're down to 70W multiplied by the efficiency of the amplifier... So they must be talking about a transient power output, using one of the measurement techniques favoured by manufacturers of in-car entertainment systems.

Almost all AV amplifier manufacturers are economical with the truth, in the sense that you cannot drive all channels simultaneously at the rated power, but that's just taking the piss.

The usual thing is that you can at least drive two channels simultaneously at the rated continuous power. Only then does the discrepancy between watts-per-channel and rated power consumption make sense, especially when you consider that a lot of that power will be wasted as heat in the amplifier.

Quote:

And you would be surprised just how little power the amp is producing at normal listening volumes. It could be just single figure watts per channel. So provided you don't want to emulate a Motorhead concert at full bore you should be OK

Often only fractions of a watt. But of course that can ramp up very rapidly, what with hearing having a logarithmic response... And you want elbow room for the transients.

[John Currie]

Why can't you guys just let threads die gracefully instead of you blabbering on.
The OP got answers to his questions and thanked everyone in post no 6....end of.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Currie

Why can't you guys just let threads die gracefully instead of you blabbering on.
The OP got answers to his questions and thanked everyone in post no 6....end of.

As one of the guys blabbering on can I ask.....

WTF has it got to do with you?

[njp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Currie

Why can't you guys just let threads die gracefully instead of you blabbering on.
The OP got answers to his questions and thanked everyone in post no 6....end of.

Are you contractually obliged to keep reading threads to which you have made no contributions, even when you think they are over?

I feel your pain.

[ProDave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

There are many ways that manufacturers define power output. Some of them are basically, think of a number then double it and add some random big number on for good measure. In other words they are often a complete work of fiction.

With regards to the Samsung. The website specs say that it only consumes 70W when in operation. Yet it claims to produce 1000W from the amplifiers. So where do the other 930W come from then? Either Samsung are telling porkies about how much power the thing actually uses or they have found a means to break a fundamental law of physics.

Didn't we used to have a trades description act? surely such misrepresentation would fall foul of that.

I used to have a decent hi fi amp that claimed to output 30W rms per channel (back in the days when a watt was a watt and meant something) and it's quite surprising how loud 60W of real power really is In fact I don't think I ever had it at full volume. My ears gave up long before the amplifier or speakers started distorting. At normal listening I would be surprised if anyone normally listens to even 10W of real power.

But unfortunately these days if someone tried selling a 30W amplifier, nobody would buy it.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

Didn't we used to have a trades description act? surely such misrepresentation would fall foul of that.

I used to have a decent hi fi amp that claimed to output 30W rms per channel (back in the days when a watt was a watt and meant something) and it's quite surprising how loud 60W of real power really is In fact I don't think I ever had it at full volume. My ears gave up long before the amplifier or speakers started distorting. At normal listening I would be surprised if anyone normally listens to even 10W of real power.

But unfortunately these days if someone tried selling a 30W amplifier, nobody would buy it.

I think the more reputable manufactures give more realistic figures, Harman Karden comes to mind, their AV receivers are all fairly low rated, but they are anything but low on volume.

It's not only the ratings on amps that are misleading, what about the ratings for subs. Certain manufactures play about with their figures to make it look like it reaches lower frequencies, Yamaha is known for doing this by quoting figures like 30hz @12db, looks impressive but the 30hz certainly won't be heard/felt or useable, Velodyne on the other hand will quote figures like 30hz @ -3db where you will hear/feel those frequencies and they will useable.

[Glawster2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

IMO pre/pro's are the next step when seriously upgrading from av receivers, it separates the amplification from the processing, a downside is you end up with two big units not just one, another is they ain't cheap.

And often many more units than that!

Several years ago I was speaking to one of the designers from Monitor Audio at a Hi-Fi show about speaker ratings. He said the rating given was a safe figure than any equipment should be able to drive without causing any problem to the speakers.

However he said the exact figure a speaker could handle was more to do with the quality of the driving amplifier. He said they have driven 120w rated speakers with continuous output from a very, very, good quality 300w Power Amplifier with no ill effects to the speakers and yet have seen the same speakers have problems doing the same test but with a poor quality 80w Power Amplifier.

As others have said, for what most people would consider to be a comfortable listening level provided the nominal speaker power rating is similar to the output from the amplifier, and the amplifier's impedance is within the acceptable range for the speakers, you shouldn't normally have any problems.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glawster2002

And often many more units than that!

Yes definitely, especially if you use monoblocks for a 5.1/7.1 systems.

[Glawster2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

Didn't we used to have a trades description act? surely such misrepresentation would fall foul of that.

The problem is there is no legally binding definition of how to measure the power rating. so a manufacturer can claim 1000w "Total music power" for a 5.1 all-in-one set-up when the real figure is more like 30w rms per channel and still comply fully with the law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

I used to have a decent hi fi amp that claimed to output 30W rms per channel (back in the days when a watt was a watt and meant something) and it's quite surprising how loud 60W of real power really is In fact I don't think I ever had it at full volume. My ears gave up long before the amplifier or speakers started distorting. At normal listening I would be surprised if anyone normally listens to even 10W of real power.

But unfortunately these days if someone tried selling a 30W amplifier, nobody would buy it.

I think you'll find most of the systems sold with claims for huge power outputs are probably only likely to produce @ 30w rms per channel.

[njp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glawster2002

However he said the exact figure a speaker could handle was more to do with the quality of the driving amplifier. He said they have driven 120w rated speakers with continuous output from a very, very, good quality 300w Power Amplifier with no ill effects to the speakers and yet have seen the same speakers have problems doing the same test but with a poor quality 80w Power Amplifier.

If you drive an amplifier into clipping, you will generate a lot of high frequency harmonics that can wreck the tweeters of speakers that have a much higher power rating than the amplifier.

Provided you don't do that, the limits are determined by how far you drive the speaker cones (drive them too far and it will sound very bad, and possibly affect the cooling) and how hot the voice coils can get before they melt...

I can't see how the cost of the amplifier has much bearing on that, if the watts are actually being delivered into the speaker. Possibly he was talking about the ability of a good amplifier to cope with speakers which present a difficult frequency-dependent load.

[Glawster2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njp

If you drive an amplifier into clipping, you will generate a lot of high frequency harmonics that can wreck the tweeters of speakers that have a much higher power rating than the amplifier.

Provided you don't do that, the limits are determined by how far you drive the speaker cones (drive them too far and it will sound very bad, and possibly affect the cooling) and how hot the voice coils can get before they melt...

That is precisely what we were talking about. A good quality amp in that it is well designed, for example, with sufficient "headroom" to handle transients without clipping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by njp

I can't see how the cost of the amplifier has much bearing on that, if the watts are actually being delivered into the speaker. Possibly he was talking about the ability of a good amplifier to cope with speakers which present a difficult frequency-dependent load.

I didn't mention anything about price for that precise reason.