One month old plasma already showing signs of ghosting/image retention/screen burn

Gilbertoo · 31-01-2012, 13:25

We've been using our new Panasonic TX-P42GT30B for just over a month now. We watch a combination on Blurays and SkyHD totalling an average of 5hrs a day. I have been using the in-built tool to reduce image retention too.

Last night as I switched from Sky to our Bluray player, I noticed that a very faint, but noticeable copy of the Sky EPG could be seen on the black screen. I ran the image retention thing for a few minutes and then turned the TV off for a few minutes but the image was there. Now, the Sky EPG is used fairly often, but each use is never for a prolonged period of time.

Now, I can only assume that this issue will only get worse.

Before I consider my options, is this normal? I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding plasma panels, but am surprised that a new one has started showing signs of screen burn so soon.

Deacon1972 · 31-01-2012, 13:40

The first 200-300 hrs are the most important, you should be running low contrast and brightness for this time. Once run in you can then turn the settings up.

Over time retention diminishes, but you will still get faint retention when an image is left on for a long time. My panel is over 6yrs old and I still get them, especially when playing games.

Just run white wash or Panasonic's equivalent and leave it on for 30-60mins this should clear the screen, then check your contrast/brightness settings to make sure they are not too high, or you are not using one of the sets factory modes like dynamic etc.

Nigel Goodwin · 31-01-2012, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

Before I consider my options, is this normal? I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding plasma panels, but am surprised that a new one has started showing signs of screen burn so soon.

You've misunderstood the reasons for it - it's when the set is new that screen burn can happen.

As Deacon1972 has pointed out, it's VERY important to take precautions for the first few months, after that it's MUCH more difficult to cause screen burn.

Essentially Plasma screens 'burn in' rapidly when new, this is the phosphur coating on the screen losing effectiveness, and is an on-going process for the life of the panel. But it's not a linear process, and it's very rapid at first, then slows down dramatically.

Screen burn is caused when parts of the panel have had much greater use and aged far faster, leaving diferent parts of the panel with different efficiencies.

Screen 'washes' can't really cure it, as you really need to drive the less aged portions to make them match, which is pretty impossible.

I take no precautions whatsoever with my old plasma, and happily leave the EPG or a freezed image on screen as long as I like, never a problem (but it's long since burnt-in).

late8 · 31-01-2012, 14:51

It wont be screen burn - just bad IR - Are you sure nobody has accidentally left the EPG on and left the room??.

In the first few hundred hours of use Contrast technically shouldn't be any higher than 50%. Make shure your TV isnt too bright in this period (about two months+)

Like Nigel said I never have issues with my screen either after this time and contrast is now at 60-70% which is bright enough day and night.
However, when I first got the TV - I was switching everything off going to bed and the room was dark with the TV still on displaying a black screen- I could faintly see the Panasonic Menus- with use it soon went.

If its really bad IR a good tip is to switch to the analogue tuner ( to get snow ) and leave it on that for 30min-1hour full screen.

Yellow does seem to cause IR more easily but you shouldn't be getting IR like that unless the epg has been used more than the TV Picture.

Gilbertoo · 31-01-2012, 14:58

Thanks for the replies. I'll try the "snow method" and "screen wash" methods for at least 30mins.

It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty.

If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund.

late8 · 31-01-2012, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

Thanks for the replies. I'll try the "snow method" and "screen wash" methods for at least 30mins.

It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty.

If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund.

No they don't say this - but its a method used by Plasma nuts for years.

A lot of the time I think they hope people just wont notice IR because they wont look for it or it will wash away with use.

However it can happen on young screens if your not careful or its too bright. Contrast should never be on max or above 75%. If you find the screen too dull try turning power save and other eco features off.

Regards to your case for return - you may be stuck there
Retention and screen burn is not covered as a returnable fault. It will be down to the store you got it from and the answer may be no.

Anyway I really cant see it being burn-in. Try the snow and keep of the Guide, it sounds like bad IR. To speed things up on Snow- turn your contrast up to 75% BUT remember to turn down again after. Then switch off for 15min or so to let the cells settle.

As I said if it is there its bad IR from a combination of too high a contrast and picture settings and long (accidental) periods of guide use.

Nigel Goodwin · 31-01-2012, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty.

If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund.

No, it's specifcally excluded from the warranty as it's 'misuse', as you've just quoted above.

noise747 · 31-01-2012, 16:16

i must be lucky, for a change, my 4 and half year old plasma have no problem with screen burn and i have a Wii and PS3 connected to it, also had PVr boxes as well.

a shame that Philips don't make Plasmas any more as i would think about getting another one when my goes belly up as it been so good.

Nigel Goodwin · 31-01-2012, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

i must be lucky, for a change, my 4 and half year old plasma have no problem with screen burn and i have a Wii and PS3 connected to it, also had PVr boxes as well.

As has been explained multiple times above, it's ONLY a problem when new - so the fact it's 4.5 years old makes no difference.

Quote:

a shame that Philips don't make Plasmas any more as i would think about getting another one when my goes belly up as it been so good.

You've been lucky - Philips Plasma's have been as unreliable as their other products (according to our local Philips service agent).

late8 · 02-02-2012, 10:26

Hows it doing Gilbertoo ??????

Gilbertoo · 02-02-2012, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by late8

Hows it doing Gilbertoo ??????

Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably.

There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely.

Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny....

call100 · 02-02-2012, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably.

There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely.

Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny....

Oh No! Nigel and co will be beside themselves!!!

Nigel Goodwin · 02-02-2012, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by call100

Oh No! Nigel and co will be beside themselves!!!

Not at all, Samsung's problems aren't so much with performance but reliability, same with Philips - I've seen some stunning pictures on Philips LCD's.

call100 · 02-02-2012, 11:18

Nice try Nigel...........Not convinced...

Gilbertoo · 02-02-2012, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Not at all, Samsung's problems aren't so much with performance but reliability, same with Philips - I've seen some stunning pictures on Philips LCD's.

To date then, I must be lucky because our Sammy has worked perfectly for 3yrs.

I'm also tempted by the D8000......very nice TV indeed!

Margo Channing · 02-02-2012, 13:55

I have the TX-P42UT30 and I had image retention on it from the PS3 and V+ Tivo guide.

I just stuck the tv on analogue and went off for a fag and when I'd come back it had gone.

I've had it just slightly over 2 months now and if I'm still getting IR I'm not seeing it.

late8 · 02-02-2012, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably.

There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely.

Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny....

Thats good to know.

Really? The GT30 isnt as good as the Series 6 ????? hmmm

The Plasma picture should be a lot deeper and more natural if you have set it all up correctly. The Viewing angle should be miles better aswell as black level. Make shure your Sky HD is set right, or if you are using scart its on RGB.

The GT and VT 30 were the best TV's to go for in 2011 and won awards for that reason.

The D8000 is nice but there so much backlight un-uniformity + the motion, colour and viewing angle just isnt up to much.

Now you have the GT30 I would just wait it out untill the Samsung and LG OLEDs come down in price 2013 - 2014. They will be launching this year for £7000-£10,000

XxBlaKOuTZxX · 03-02-2012, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

I'm also tempted by the D8000......very nice TV indeed!

Yeah so am I. It's the price tag that put the mrs off lol'

C'mon Nigel. You got to admit that the Samsung D8000 is a stunning tv

Nigel Goodwin · 03-02-2012, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxBlaKOuTZxX

Yeah so am I. It's the price tag that put the mrs off lol'

C'mon Nigel. You got to admit that the Samsung D8000 is a stunning tv

I've not seen one, so can't comment - but styling from Samsung is usually pretty good.

flagpole · 03-02-2012, 09:25

It's not clear that the potential for long term damage when the set is new than when it's old. but the potential for short term image retention certainly is.

simply if your set is 10 hours old then if something is on the screen for 1 hour then this is 10% of the time. if your set is 1000 hours old then it isn't.

XxBlaKOuTZxX · 03-02-2012, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I've not seen one, so can't comment - but styling from Samsung is usually pretty good.

Surely Samsung have learned from earlier mistakes NOT to keep using cheap/unreliable capacitors in their new tv's. I mean their new 3D LED models, D6530 upwards aren't exactly cheap to buy. Who knows, perhaps your opinion of Samsung will change or am I kidding myself here lol

Nigel Goodwin · 03-02-2012, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

It's not clear that the potential for long term damage when the set is new than when it's old.

It's perfectly clear, screen burn is at it's highest risk when the set is new, and operating in it's initial 'burn-in' phase.

Nigel Goodwin · 03-02-2012, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxBlaKOuTZxX

Surely Samsung have learned from earlier mistakes NOT to keep using cheap/unreliable capacitors in their new tv's. I mean their new 3D LED models, D6530 upwards aren't exactly cheap to buy. Who knows, perhaps your opinion of Samsung will change or am I kidding myself here lol

One would like to think so?, but they kept fitting them for many years, knowing full well that average life of the sets was short, and that all spares allocations were commonly used up in under 18 months. Hopefully action by RETRA about the situation may have caused them to review their practices.

Panasonic never seemed to learn when fitting sub-standard PSU's in HDD/DVD recorders, for years these failed prematurely, yet they kept using the same sub-standard design. The actual reason was the HDD - the PSU was designed for a DVD recorder, they then latrer added an HDD to the same design - the extra power required was too much for the PSU's.

Thomson of course never seemed to learn (until it was too late) with their substandard capacitors in SkyHD and Sky+ boxes.

Those are really the 'big three' design/manufacturing errors in the trade, the lesser cheaper brands are just expected to fit cheap parts.

bobcar · 03-02-2012, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

It's perfectly clear, screen burn is at it's highest risk when the set is new, and operating in it's initial 'burn-in' phase.

Is it clear? If the image retention is due to quicker ageing early on then any image retention will be temporary as the less aged pixels catch up when the prematurely aged pixels ageing slows down.

If on the other hand there is a different process going on early on in the running then such image retention could be permanent.

I don't know enough about the physics of the ageing process to know the answer, do you? Or are you just assuming that because the quicker ageing at the start makes image retention more permanent because it is more obvious at the start?

If the ageing at the start is more permanent then the process is most definitely not simple as there is something else going on, the simple process would be the "catching up" I described above.

I would say with my Panny plasma I took no precautions other than using grey bars (I still do) and watched a lot of 4:3 and had no long term problems.

Nigel Goodwin · 03-02-2012, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Is it clear? If the image retention is due to quicker ageing early on then any image retention will be temporary as the less aged pixels catch up when the prematurely aged pixels ageing slows down.

The problem is that it never catches up, as the set gets much older the effect of the damage will reduce, but it'll never catch up - unless you can use an inverted version of the exact same image to burn the unaffected parts to match.

But a little care for the first few months with a Plasma, and it's not a problem anyway.

31-01-2012, 13:25	#1
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	One month old plasma already showing signs of ghosting/image retention/screen burn We've been using our new Panasonic TX-P42GT30B for just over a month now. We watch a combination on Blurays and SkyHD totalling an average of 5hrs a day. I have been using the in-built tool to reduce image retention too. Last night as I switched from Sky to our Bluray player, I noticed that a very faint, but noticeable copy of the Sky EPG could be seen on the black screen. I ran the image retention thing for a few minutes and then turned the TV off for a few minutes but the image was there. Now, the Sky EPG is used fairly often, but each use is never for a prolonged period of time. Now, I can only assume that this issue will only get worse. Before I consider my options, is this normal? I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding plasma panels, but am surprised that a new one has started showing signs of screen burn so soon.

31-01-2012, 13:40	#2
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	The first 200-300 hrs are the most important, you should be running low contrast and brightness for this time. Once run in you can then turn the settings up. Over time retention diminishes, but you will still get faint retention when an image is left on for a long time. My panel is over 6yrs old and I still get them, especially when playing games. Just run white wash or Panasonic's equivalent and leave it on for 30-60mins this should clear the screen, then check your contrast/brightness settings to make sure they are not too high, or you are not using one of the sets factory modes like dynamic etc.

31-01-2012, 13:52	#3
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo Before I consider my options, is this normal? I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding plasma panels, but am surprised that a new one has started showing signs of screen burn so soon. You've misunderstood the reasons for it - it's when the set is new that screen burn can happen. As Deacon1972 has pointed out, it's VERY important to take precautions for the first few months, after that it's MUCH more difficult to cause screen burn. Essentially Plasma screens 'burn in' rapidly when new, this is the phosphur coating on the screen losing effectiveness, and is an on-going process for the life of the panel. But it's not a linear process, and it's very rapid at first, then slows down dramatically. Screen burn is caused when parts of the panel have had much greater use and aged far faster, leaving diferent parts of the panel with different efficiencies. Screen 'washes' can't really cure it, as you really need to drive the less aged portions to make them match, which is pretty impossible. I take no precautions whatsoever with my old plasma, and happily leave the EPG or a freezed image on screen as long as I like, never a problem (but it's long since burnt-in).

31-01-2012, 14:51	#4
late8 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,052	It wont be screen burn - just bad IR - Are you sure nobody has accidentally left the EPG on and left the room??. In the first few hundred hours of use Contrast technically shouldn't be any higher than 50%. Make shure your TV isnt too bright in this period (about two months+) Like Nigel said I never have issues with my screen either after this time and contrast is now at 60-70% which is bright enough day and night. However, when I first got the TV - I was switching everything off going to bed and the room was dark with the TV still on displaying a black screen- I could faintly see the Panasonic Menus- with use it soon went. If its really bad IR a good tip is to switch to the analogue tuner ( to get snow ) and leave it on that for 30min-1hour full screen. Yellow does seem to cause IR more easily but you shouldn't be getting IR like that unless the epg has been used more than the TV Picture.

31-01-2012, 14:58	#5
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Thanks for the replies. I'll try the "snow method" and "screen wash" methods for at least 30mins. It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty. If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund.

31-01-2012, 15:28	#6
late8 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,052	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo Thanks for the replies. I'll try the "snow method" and "screen wash" methods for at least 30mins. It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty. If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund. No they don't say this - but its a method used by Plasma nuts for years. A lot of the time I think they hope people just wont notice IR because they wont look for it or it will wash away with use. However it can happen on young screens if your not careful or its too bright. Contrast should never be on max or above 75%. If you find the screen too dull try turning power save and other eco features off. Regards to your case for return - you may be stuck there Retention and screen burn is not covered as a returnable fault. It will be down to the store you got it from and the answer may be no. Anyway I really cant see it being burn-in. Try the snow and keep of the Guide, it sounds like bad IR. To speed things up on Snow- turn your contrast up to 75% BUT remember to turn down again after. Then switch off for 15min or so to let the cells settle. As I said if it is there its bad IR from a combination of too high a contrast and picture settings and long (accidental) periods of guide use.

31-01-2012, 16:01	#7
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo It's interesting the advice given here because the user manual doesn't offer any advice/instructions on the first few weeks of use.....it only makes reference to leaving still images on for long periods....which invalidates their warranty. If, after trying the methods described, the image is still there, I presume I'd have a good case for getting a refund. No, it's specifcally excluded from the warranty as it's 'misuse', as you've just quoted above.

31-01-2012, 16:16	#8
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	i must be lucky, for a change, my 4 and half year old plasma have no problem with screen burn and i have a Wii and PS3 connected to it, also had PVr boxes as well. a shame that Philips don't make Plasmas any more as i would think about getting another one when my goes belly up as it been so good.

31-01-2012, 19:56	#9
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 i must be lucky, for a change, my 4 and half year old plasma have no problem with screen burn and i have a Wii and PS3 connected to it, also had PVr boxes as well. As has been explained multiple times above, it's ONLY a problem when new - so the fact it's 4.5 years old makes no difference. Quote: a shame that Philips don't make Plasmas any more as i would think about getting another one when my goes belly up as it been so good. You've been lucky - Philips Plasma's have been as unreliable as their other products (according to our local Philips service agent).

02-02-2012, 10:26	#10
late8 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,052	Hows it doing Gilbertoo ??????

02-02-2012, 10:55	#11
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Quote: Originally Posted by late8 Hows it doing Gilbertoo ?????? Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably. There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely. Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny....

02-02-2012, 11:09	#12
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably. There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely. Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny.... Oh No! Nigel and co will be beside themselves!!!

02-02-2012, 11:12	#13
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by call100 Oh No! Nigel and co will be beside themselves!!! Not at all, Samsung's problems aren't so much with performance but reliability, same with Philips - I've seen some stunning pictures on Philips LCD's.

02-02-2012, 11:18	#14
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	Nice try Nigel...........Not convinced...

02-02-2012, 11:27	#15
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Not at all, Samsung's problems aren't so much with performance but reliability, same with Philips - I've seen some stunning pictures on Philips LCD's. To date then, I must be lucky because our Sammy has worked perfectly for 3yrs. I'm also tempted by the D8000......very nice TV indeed!

02-02-2012, 13:55	#16
Margo Channing Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bracknell Posts: 4,894	I have the TX-P42UT30 and I had image retention on it from the PS3 and V+ Tivo guide. I just stuck the tv on analogue and went off for a fag and when I'd come back it had gone. I've had it just slightly over 2 months now and if I'm still getting IR I'm not seeing it.

02-02-2012, 16:47	#17
late8 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,052	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo Much better, thanks! I did the "snow" method which reduced the IR considerably. There is still a tiny amount visible, but not enough to annoy me. I may give it a little more snow to see if it removes it completely. Overall, I'm not particularly 'wowed' with the TV though - I only got it in order to give what my wifes been after for 10yrs - a TV in the bedroom. I thought it better to put the newer technology in the living room and the older kit in the bedroom. Our 'old' 40" Samsung Series 6 is now upstairs and I have to say, I do prefer it to the new Panny.... Thats good to know. Really? The GT30 isnt as good as the Series 6 ????? hmmm The Plasma picture should be a lot deeper and more natural if you have set it all up correctly. The Viewing angle should be miles better aswell as black level. Make shure your Sky HD is set right, or if you are using scart its on RGB. The GT and VT 30 were the best TV's to go for in 2011 and won awards for that reason. The D8000 is nice but there so much backlight un-uniformity + the motion, colour and viewing angle just isnt up to much. Now you have the GT30 I would just wait it out untill the Samsung and LG OLEDs come down in price 2013 - 2014. They will be launching this year for £7000-£10,000

03-02-2012, 07:44	#18
XxBlaKOuTZxX Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Edinburgh / Scotland Posts: 2,773	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo I'm also tempted by the D8000......very nice TV indeed! Yeah so am I. It's the price tag that put the mrs off lol' C'mon Nigel. You got to admit that the Samsung D8000 is a stunning tv

03-02-2012, 09:04	#19
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by XxBlaKOuTZxX Yeah so am I. It's the price tag that put the mrs off lol' C'mon Nigel. You got to admit that the Samsung D8000 is a stunning tv I've not seen one, so can't comment - but styling from Samsung is usually pretty good.

03-02-2012, 09:25	#20
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	It's not clear that the potential for long term damage when the set is new than when it's old. but the potential for short term image retention certainly is. simply if your set is 10 hours old then if something is on the screen for 1 hour then this is 10% of the time. if your set is 1000 hours old then it isn't.

03-02-2012, 09:32	#21
XxBlaKOuTZxX Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Edinburgh / Scotland Posts: 2,773	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin I've not seen one, so can't comment - but styling from Samsung is usually pretty good. Surely Samsung have learned from earlier mistakes NOT to keep using cheap/unreliable capacitors in their new tv's. I mean their new 3D LED models, D6530 upwards aren't exactly cheap to buy. Who knows, perhaps your opinion of Samsung will change or am I kidding myself here lol

DS Forums

One month old plasma already showing signs of ghosting/image retention/screen burn

03-02-2012, 09:57	#22
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole It's not clear that the potential for long term damage when the set is new than when it's old. It's perfectly clear, screen burn is at it's highest risk when the set is new, and operating in it's initial 'burn-in' phase.

03-02-2012, 10:06	#23
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by XxBlaKOuTZxX Surely Samsung have learned from earlier mistakes NOT to keep using cheap/unreliable capacitors in their new tv's. I mean their new 3D LED models, D6530 upwards aren't exactly cheap to buy. Who knows, perhaps your opinion of Samsung will change or am I kidding myself here lol One would like to think so?, but they kept fitting them for many years, knowing full well that average life of the sets was short, and that all spares allocations were commonly used up in under 18 months. Hopefully action by RETRA about the situation may have caused them to review their practices. Panasonic never seemed to learn when fitting sub-standard PSU's in HDD/DVD recorders, for years these failed prematurely, yet they kept using the same sub-standard design. The actual reason was the HDD - the PSU was designed for a DVD recorder, they then latrer added an HDD to the same design - the extra power required was too much for the PSU's. Thomson of course never seemed to learn (until it was too late) with their substandard capacitors in SkyHD and Sky+ boxes. Those are really the 'big three' design/manufacturing errors in the trade, the lesser cheaper brands are just expected to fit cheap parts.

03-02-2012, 10:55	#24
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin It's perfectly clear, screen burn is at it's highest risk when the set is new, and operating in it's initial 'burn-in' phase. Is it clear? If the image retention is due to quicker ageing early on then any image retention will be temporary as the less aged pixels catch up when the prematurely aged pixels ageing slows down. If on the other hand there is a different process going on early on in the running then such image retention could be permanent. I don't know enough about the physics of the ageing process to know the answer, do you? Or are you just assuming that because the quicker ageing at the start makes image retention more permanent because it is more obvious at the start? If the ageing at the start is more permanent then the process is most definitely not simple as there is something else going on, the simple process would be the "catching up" I described above. I would say with my Panny plasma I took no precautions other than using grey bars (I still do) and watched a lot of 4:3 and had no long term problems.

03-02-2012, 11:15	#25
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Is it clear? If the image retention is due to quicker ageing early on then any image retention will be temporary as the less aged pixels catch up when the prematurely aged pixels ageing slows down. The problem is that it never catches up, as the set gets much older the effect of the damage will reduce, but it'll never catch up - unless you can use an inverted version of the exact same image to burn the unaffected parts to match. But a little care for the first few months with a Plasma, and it's not a problem anyway.