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"Motorola makes Apple pull iPads and iPhones in Germany" - BBC


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Old 03-02-2012, 14:56
Dai13371
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Very interesting piece this.

What I find most interesting is this paragraph :-

Apple is appealing this ruling because Motorola repeatedly refuses to license this patent to Apple on reasonable terms, despite having declared it an industry standard patent seven years ago."

They have some nerve Apple saying this after the amount of lawsuits they have launched recently and in light of many being regarded now as industry standard.
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Old 03-02-2012, 15:06
Marky
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regarding something as industry standard, and having a technology declared an industry standard are two totally different things.

M
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Old 03-02-2012, 15:22
Tigerpaws
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They have only been removed from the online site not physical stores and it's the 3G iPads iPhone 4 and 3GS not the 4s though.
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Old 03-02-2012, 15:33
Dai13371
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regarding something as industry standard, and having a technology declared an industry standard are two totally different things.

M
Yes I quite agree this is a salient point however it begs the question as to at which point does something become industry standard and when does it become public knowledge. To use one example, the manipulation of a phone number embedded within in an email by pressing or clicking the number. This could be seen by some as being industry standard and found in everything from VOIP applications to quick messaging, yet Apple claim it and defend it.

Fast becoming beyond farce this sue and counter sue and one would hope the firms involved would declare a truce and look at licensing agreements.
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:40
The Lord Lucan
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Apple has already managed to suspend this action and will be selling them online imminently!

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-sales...sume-03211975/
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:52
alanwarwic
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What I find most interesting is this paragraph :-
Apple is appealing this ruling because Motorola repeatedly refuses to license this patent to Apple on reasonable terms, despite having declared it an industry standard patent seven years ago."
Motorola have offered reasonable terms on this since 2007 and Apple think it reasonable to forget the last 5 years.
Add the fact that Apple have adopted newer cheaper patented technology to bypass this now brings up the question 'what is reasonable'.
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Old 03-02-2012, 17:06
Stuart_h
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Motorola have offered reasonable terms on this since 2007 and Apple think it reasonable to forget the last 5 years.
Add the fact that Apple have adopted newer cheaper patented technology to bypass this now brings up the question 'what is reasonable'.
^^This ^^

Apple thought they would haggle until they managed to migrate away from the process and then get away without paying anything.

Just as interesting is that Motorola are now blocking Apple from enabling push mail and iCloud in Germany too ..... and as thats not an industry standard thing they arent obliged to even offer to license it !

Not that I approve of any of this as I think its stifling competition .... however I do think that Apple seem to be the main offenders and are now suffering a backlash ....
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:02
The Lord Lucan
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This is just Apple allowing Motorolla to screw itself. They now can say Motorolla is being unfair and possibly get compensation out of them.. This will also be looked at under European antitrust law, it doesn't matter what the German courts decides from here on really..

Apple are in it for the long haul, Googlerolla seem to be just trying to get quick headlines. They knew Apple could easily post a bond and start reselling straight away.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:02
Stiggles
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This is just Apple allowing Motorolla to screw itself. They now can say Motorolla is being unfair and possibly get compensation out of them.. This will also be looked at under European antitrust law, it doesn't matter what the German courts decides from here on really..

Apple are in it for the long haul, Googlerolla seem to be just trying to get quick headlines. They knew Apple could easily post a bond and start reselling straight away.
Sweet jesus!!

So you think because Apple wont pay a proper amount for the licence Motorola is screwing itself? What a strange view lmao!! They own the patent ffs so they can do what they damn well want with it if people wont pay the proper amount for their technology.

Also, they are all in it for the long haul you dope, and they will all survive. Google will always keep the lead over apple. Google are not going anywhere and neither are Motorola.

This will never be looked at by the European courts, ever. But what will soon is apple with all the lawsuits they are shoving out left right and center. That's bound to happen. Apple are becoming desperate and it shows. Apple also only have a few days maybe a week with this suspension.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:27
The Lord Lucan
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Motorola and Google may never happen so really Motorola might be gone in a year or so.. They couldn't even put up the cash Apple asked for incase they lost the court case.

Also I do feel this case will be looked into and Apple has done this before where they let the case slip to enforcement of some sort, appeal/pay the bond then appeal that under FRAND they are being too harsh. As for the patent cost being fair it's all very good spin from both sides.

I'm not the biggest Apple fan yes I have an Mac but only because my work dictates it, but I can see Apple playing the victim card in this. Motorola are just wanting to get headlines as they could have just chilled out. I would not want this happening around the time the EU are reviewing thier takeover.

It will also be interesting if they post the 100 million bond that CANNOT come from or be guarenteed by Google at this time in regards to the iCloud/MobileMe injunction. That's about the same as they lost in the last Q4.. Will they risk losing another 100 million on top of market losses?

The EU still has to ok the Googlrolla deal... Feb 13th so yes thier eye will be firmly on this case.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:48
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So you think because Apple wont pay a proper amount for the licence Motorola is screwing itself? What a strange view lmao!! They own the patent ffs so they can do what they damn well want with it if people wont pay the proper amount for their technology.
Actually, they can't. Not for 3G essential FRAND pledged patents anyway. The commitments that 3G technology owners made to ETSI trump EU member state laws, and part of those agreements place strict rules on the seeking of injunctive relief over FRAND pledged innovations.

This will never be looked at by the European courts, ever. But what will soon is apple with all the lawsuits they are shoving out left right and center. That's bound to happen. Apple are becoming desperate and it shows.
You've got that situation backwards. Samsung is currently facing a full scale EU antitrust investigation for it's agressive injunction seeking tactics involving FRAND pledged patents, and it's highly likely that Motorola will face the same fate. Apple, however, do not assert any FRAND pledged patents against others, and are therefore outside the scope of such an investigation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...medium=twitter

If Motorola do join Samsung in being the subject of an EU antitrust investigation then the EU Competition Commission will definitely halt the consideration of the Google / Motorola deal pending the outcome, which would almost certainty kill the deal. So yes, Motorola may indeed have screwed themselves in the long run.

Apple also only have a few days maybe a week with this suspension.
The reason for the suspension of the injunction is because Apple have made (another) new licensing offer to Motorola. If Motorola accept, or if the court believes Apple's offer is reasonable, then the injunction will be lifted permanently. As far as I know Motorola have yet to respond to the new offer. The fact that the court granted a temporary suspension shows it believes Apple is in the right ball park with this offer (it recently rejected a similar motion by Apple to suspend the injunction when they presented a new offer). At the moment the court is on Motorola's side regarding the interpretation of what is reasonable and what is not, but that may switch if Motorola reject this new offer.
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Old 04-02-2012, 20:01
swordman
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Actually, they can't. Not for 3G essential FRAND pledged patents anyway. The commitments that 3G technology owners made to ETSI trump EU member state laws, and part of those agreements place strict rules on the seeking of injunctive relief over FRAND pledged innovations.



You've got that situation backwards. Samsung is currently facing a full scale EU antitrust investigation for it's agressive injunction seeking tactics involving FRAND pledged patents, and it's highly likely that Motorola will face the same fate. Apple, however, do not assert any FRAND pledged patents against others, and are therefore outside the scope of such an investigation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...medium=twitter

If Motorola do join Samsung in being the subject of an EU antitrust investigation then the EU Competition Commission will definitely halt the consideration of the Google / Motorola deal pending the outcome, which would almost certainty kill the deal. So yes, Motorola may indeed have screwed themselves in the long run.


The reason for the suspension of the injunction is because Apple have made (another) new licensing offer to Motorola. If Motorola accept, or if the court believes Apple's offer is reasonable, then the injunction will be lifted permanently. As far as I know Motorola have yet to respond to the new offer. The fact that the court granted a temporary suspension shows it believes Apple is in the right ball park with this offer (it recently rejected a similar motion by Apple to suspend the injunction when they presented a new offer). At the moment the court is on Motorola's side regarding the interpretation of what is reasonable and what is not, but that may switch if Motorola reject this new offer.
However FRAND does not cover the payments apple have refused to make up until now claiming moto are charging too much. Should this new offer not be accepted or meet what moto are asking and the court consider it not a reasonable attempt by apple the injunction could be renewed.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:31
TelevisionUser
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Very interesting piece this.

What I find most interesting is this paragraph :-

Apple is appealing this ruling because Motorola repeatedly refuses to license this patent to Apple on reasonable terms, despite having declared it an industry standard patent seven years ago."

They have some nerve Apple saying this after the amount of lawsuits they have launched recently and in light of many being regarded now as industry standard.
Apple are now getting a taste of their own bitter medicine and I hope that they experience more issues like this. For the past couple of years, they've been using patent lawyers to try to crush competing firms rather than try to succeed in the open market on price, quality and innovation.
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:18
call100
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Apple are struggling to keep up and retake the high ground in innovation. Trying to slow down everyone else seems to be all they have to enable them not to lose too much ground....
If they've all got the money to waste, they are best all left to get on with it...
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:32
alanwarwic
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I wonder what the whole story behind this is.

Was it Motorola in 2007 trying to stop the iPhone?
Apple I think now have a cheaper deal with Qualcomm who have an alternative patented solution.

Unlike gestures like 'swipe to unlock' the hardware related stuff is harder for to consider.
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Old 06-02-2012, 00:24
neo_wales
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Its all getting a bit silly now, how much money do these people need? A phone is a phone.
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