[bmsgharris]

Not sure if this is the right group.......

I have a Denon AVR 1603 Surround sound system.
Current setup:

Fron Speakers: Kef coda III SP3016 50W
Centre: Kef Coda 80
Rear Speakers: Denon SC-M5K

What would be a good subwoofer and do I need one???

TIA

[lonestar]

hi bmsgharris

you are probably better of asking this over on the avforums

scroll down until you see the link to take you into the subwoofer forum.

[cyberdog]

Depends on what your budget is for a Sub.
You don't "need" one, but once youve heard your system with one, you'll never go back!
Even if you have the sub set really low, so that its only just audible, it adds a fullness to the sound.
Best bet is see if you can borrow one from a friend, see what you think.

[Jim Rae]

You probably don't need it, but as the previous poster says, once you've had one, you won't want to do without it!

When you feel that menacing rumble coming at you, it can be magic.

But - and it's a big but - you would have to calibrate your system so that the other speakers didn't reproduce anything below around 200Hz or it will sound terrible.

Check the installation menu for guidance.

That's because all the bass from every channel should be sent to the sub woofer to be reproduced.

I've got two in two separate rooms and I love them...

[cyberdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Rae

...you would have to calibrate your system so that the other speakers didn't reproduce anything below around 200Hz or it will sound terrible.

below 200? you sure?
THX recommend 80Hz...you'd have to be using some seriously crap speakers to warrant sending everything below 200Hz to the sub.

[Jim Rae]

Well it depends on what boxes you have...

Most smaller home cinema systems extract the lower bass response from the five speakers and send it to the sub woofer.

That's not the same of course as the LFE (lower frequency extension) track on some movies which kicks in as and when needed.

If you have five small coffee cup size speakers around the room, they won't reproduce any proper bass anyway, so the sub woofer by default does all the work in the bass department.

But if you have reasonable HiFi speakers and don't restrict the bass to them, they will compete with (and lose) against the sub woofer and there will be standing waves and all sorts of horrible artefacts, as the bass bounces from the four walls to you and back again.

Most home cinema systems of any quality have a menu to sort this out.

The bass should be clean, accurate and dare I say subtle - not easy from five full range speakers plus a sub woofer...

[cyberdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Rae

If you have five small coffee cup size speakers around the room, they won't reproduce any proper bass anyway, so the sub woofer by default does all the work in the bass department.

But the guy is using Kef Codas.....

[Jim Rae]

I know - I have KEF speakers too.

See para 5 of my last post...

[cyberdog]

So you're saying that decent speakers shouldn't be fed anything below 200 Hz?
hmmm....

[Jim Rae]

No I was saying that small speakers shouldn't be over burdened with bass response.

But the real point is that in a 5.1 or DTS home cinema system, all the low frequency stuff goes to the sub woofer.

That's not necessarily the case in a HiFi system in which the sub woofer can lead a separate life...

Just don't have five full range speakers plus a sub woofer all competing for bass response at the one time.

It can end in tears, plus significant complaints from the neighbours...

And sound very nasty.

[cyberdog]

No, in a 5.1 system the LFE channel goes to the sub..i.e. what the sound engineer who mixed the track decided should go to the sub.
The sub isnt working all the time, only when it is needed.

So, its important to have main speakers that can handle reasonably low frequencies.

[Jim Rae]

Yes and no...

In a HiFi system with full range speakers that can be true - it depends how the menu in the amp is set up.

In a Home Cinema System with five small speakers and a sub woofer - the kind you see in Comet or Currys - all the bass is syphoned off to the sub woofer, whether there is an LFE track or not.

Usually in the menu, you are asked if your five speakers are large, medium or small and depending on your answer, the amp determines how the bass is distributed.

In a proper HiFi system - either with two stereo speakers or five surround ones, you need to decide what to do with the bass if you have a sub too.

Do you let the surround speakers do the bass with the sub only doing LFE or exceptionally low stuff, or do you send all bass to the sub?

What I am saying is you can't have all five surround - and the sub - competing for bass or it will be a disaster.

The sub must be separate from what the other speakers are doing to have any chance of success.

The 200 Hz is based on mini speakers and will vary depending on what's on offer.

However the real point is, subs are great if set up properly.

[Stevejd]

As earlier stated, the 'need' for a sub really depends on the frquency response of your speakers. Most hifi speakers are spec'd down to about 20hz, where as home cinema specific front speakers often only go down to about 60-70hz. Subs go 'way down' to the point where you can almost see the cone moving. I agree that once you have had a sub, you will probably always put it on, but its impact depends really on how much use the soundtrack makes use of the sub track, or how good your av amp is at creating one. On some films the sub track can be quite overpowering on some scenes. Anyway, in conclusion, yes, get one!

[Jim Rae]

Yes get one!

But remember a sub is at its most impressive if it can add an extra dimension to quiet sequences - that's when a quality product will show, rather than with explosions and bangs...

[cyberdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevejd

.... Most hifi speakers are spec'd down to about 20hz....

Not many HiFi speakers go this low - average for a decent size speaker is 40Hz.
You'd need some seriously high end speakers to reach those depths.

[Jim Rae]

To be honest - around 60Hz would be more typical....