Why don't they let the professional skaters devise the choreography , as in SCD ?

Some of the current stuff is very uninspiring and easy to criticise.

When the Judges say they "want to see more ", "less lifts", "more lifts", etc., I am surprised the contestants don't shout out, "don't tell me, tell them".

When I suggested in another thread that the pro skaters should do the choreography, it was pointed out to me that some of them - possibly most? - wouldn't be capable. The Strictly pros have been (some still are) all teachers/coaches, so used to devising choreography, but it's not likely the pro skaters do the same.

Having said that, I do agree with you, the choreography is now very boring. Nearly all the couples doing the same boring roll-up lift etc ...... I've reached the stage of feeling I've -
"been there, seen it, bought the T-shirt and got bored"

If the pro skaters are not capable of doing choreography, then they (producers) should bring in people who are capable.

The judges need to be told not to mark the choregraphy. T and D have a real problem what to put in if they think anything more will mean bodies on the floor or strained backs and there's nothing else new.

The problem with the weaker contestants is they can't do much else - so as the series gets longer, with more contestants, they stay longer - repeating the same moves.

The strongest people are using up the moves fast and they seem to be suffering from a longer series too. If Jorgie gets all her moves too early there won't be anything new and harder for later - i think some moves are being held back - so she gets some moves to repeat. Mathew seems to have damaged himself doing what he has done - but he seems to have got very little to do this week.

They don't come up with that many really good routines with a great music/story/tricks combination anyway. Those few are now spread over a longer series . They also seem to be reusing past ideas rather than finding new ones - look at Jorgie's 9 to 5 routine and Daniella's first run of it.

The number of people involved and the number of dances to be choregraphed must be a factor - there's only so much time available to write/develop routines.

That makes the people doing new things stand out more than they should. Sebastien does new moves because he can do them in his day job - no one really knows what to make of them . Chemmy is on a journey to do more than she should be able to lifting - but she's still not where Jorgie was in week one.

More choregraphers might help - but some would be better than others and it would still depend on what theme/music they got, and what rules there were to stop everyone turning up with the same idea/moves. You would also get the SCD problem - that, if the pros do it, some will do it poorly and some will choregraph to avoid weaknesses and to get laughs and cheap votes - that just distorts the process more.

I'm curious as to what sort of thing people are expecting to see in a skating/dancing competition. People complain about the choreography but it is limited by what the celebs are capable of to a large extent which isn't much in many cases.

When they incorporate some nice edge work as in the start of Rosemary's routine people say it's boring. Few in the audience appreciate good footwork. When they do the lifts people are saying it's boring as they've seen them before - well yes there are only so many types of lifts and types of turns etc and they aren't all that easy to learn (which explains why not every one is an Olympic level ice skater or would even be competitive in the lowest levels of open competition in this country).

So what is it that people want to see? And is the choreography in SCD really so exciting - don't they use the same steps in different orders with each dance and the same lifts?

Having sat through 25 professional world-class performances at the European Championships the other week, it's entirely fair to say that there's only so many elements you can do to gain the top marks. I reckon 15 of the 25 did the same jump combinations in different parts of the routine, and those spins where they're facing the side (technical name escapes me, sorry) get really boring after you've seen EVERYONE do them.

To answer icedragon - Robin and Katarina's point seemed to be that we were seeing basically the same steps week in, week out from the same people, and they were particularly harsh where they felt people could do more than they were being given (Charlene and Chico).

I think that's an argument the audience can agree with - that we need to see at least one additional element every week from people so that we know they're improving, in addition to what they did before. This is why the required element was such a great leveller. People had to push themselves to achieve it (within their own limits) and it made for easy comparison - who did it and who didn't do it, who did it better than others, etc. Where it fell down was when it became the ONLY element the judges marked on (yes, you, Robin)...

Mind you, I also think it's fair to say that where we're seeing plenty of content, we judge on different criteria. For example, I'm not going to castigate Seb for not doing more jumps, but I am if he doesn't start trying to land them more smoothly and turn in a more elegant performance.

That is probably very true in terms of ability and the limitations imposed. I just guess a person has their own individual style of choreography and when the same person/people are choreographing all the routines then that style becomes sameish. Even when the pros do a routine it seems a bit 'same old same old' and surely they are talented enough to add something different to the mix. I just wondered if others did choreo whether we would see a different style and something a bit different.

In comparison to SCD, SCD is fresher. The distinction between ballroom and latin and then the divide into slow and fast ballroom/latin makes the dances different. Strictly is always more exciting in the later weeks when there are several different dances performed. Then there is the individual pros style of choreo which adds interest and difference.

The dances on DOI that I remember best are when the skaters do something different - Sam's Riverdance, Hayleys Jai Ho, Chloe's Kiss Kiss, T&D Tango from last year though these again showcased a different style of dancing and maybe to go down that route would make it SCD on ice.

I don't think external choreographers would work at all and am in agreement with those that said the step sequences are put in to challenge the celebs but often aren't pulled off very well and that there is only so many lifts that a celeb can do. If it wasn't for the 'dance' lifts torvill and dean include I think we would see even less lifts more often.

However, personally I do not want to see any skating steps moves that a celeb can do well in the routine the following week. I don't mean never again but between weeks I think there needs to be a big contrast

I don't think most of the viewing public can tell the difference between the steps anyway - they may be different (mohawk, choctaw, inside and outside 3 turns, rockers, twizzles, brackets (though I don't think I've seen one of those yet)) but most people just see 'the celeb turned' or 'did some steps'.

The things that people really see as different are probably the spins and jumps and few of the celebs can manage those though there should be some of this years group who will do them.

I think Sebastien may become even more popular as he is probably the most likely to do something 'different'.

I agree and think Jayne and chris are at their best when they have someone that can help them push their creativity. He's not the best skater but it must be brilliant to work with someone so willing to try new things on the ice. Especially with how crazy chris can get when he's 'on one' in choreography lol

Its not only telling the difference, you would have to know what was right and wrong too. There's also the problem that you would have to see the footwork to give credit for it - and, more often than not, the camera is looking somewhere else, the skaters are a dot, or its looking at the top of their heads.

SCD doesn't now have enough self belief to only go with that though - its now moved further into gimicks, props, make up and less attention to the actual dancing.

DOI as you say produces most of its best routines when it uses strong themes that suggest a strong story or style and moves. Most songs don't have a strong enough story that will fit the sort of moves that skaters will do - there's also more difficulty in portraying a lot of stories that are there when you are skating side by side and not in hold facing and when you have more lifts to fit in.. Most people are not dynamic enough, or graceful enough for classical music as used by the pros, and they seem to limit the amount of film, dancing and musical, music they use by containing it to set weeks.

I suppose it depends whether you mean steps or other movements - although the one will to some extent link to the other.

Of course they've got someone who could probably choreograph some interesting moves but unfortunately he's on the judging panel and it would be a conflict of interest if he did...