The Israeli show is actually supposed to be better, like The Killing was better than the American remake, it's going to be shown on Sky Arts in May, unfortunately I don't have Sky.

Because he beat him severely and saw him in a grave looking dead. Dunno how Walker carried on breathing though.

"I believe that the Devil is ready to repent but I can't believe that Ronald Regan is president."
I think it's more about who is behind the candidate

I have yet to see a comment from anybody not associated with the Homeland production who has actually seen both series, let alone one saying that the Israeli show is better. Though there was an article in The Guardian by someone SPECULATING that the Israeli show is better who ended up admitting that he has never seen the Israeli series -- which I think says a great deal about the the idiotic prejudice against American remakes of non-American series (yes, prejudice, as in "pre-judge.")

Going back a bit but somebody was the source of the tip off to Aileen that Faisal was being followed back to the house. That surely means there is somebody at the CIA who is not what they seem? David Estes? Saul?

It is true that your average Guardian reader does seem to believe that watching subtitled dramas on BBC4 makes them superior in some way.

On the other hand, the original version of The Killing was better.

This is one of the things that feel like they may leave loose ends: Estes having Carrie watched is another one. We hear nothing else about it and then he puts her in charge of the taskforce.

Talking of Estes putting surveillance on Carrie, someone earlier in the thread questioned Saul's reaction to her confession, but as she is being watched it is possible he already knew about her and Brody.

A lot of them, certainly. The paper does have a reputation for being Europhile and anti-American, but they are also anti-Israel.


Among British people who have seen both that is the prevailing sentiment, but I disagree with it. I sometimes wonder if Brits had seen the American remake FIRST and only saw the original later if they would still think that. That of course will be the case with Homeland and the Israeli series (US show seen first, non-American original seen second). Heck, I wonder if I would think differently if I had seen Forbrydelsen before Season 1 of the US remake (though I did see Episode 1, and only that episode, of Forbrydelsen before the US show even aired in the US).

I had forgotten about that.

Yeah, sounds like you read the same article that I have. It's not so much that the Israeli version is better than the American version. The writer likes the American version. It's that the original carries more of an impact since it involves an Israeli. That carries weight considering what's going on in that region.

There seems to be some confusion for many of you about this. Estes did not put a surveillance on Carrie. She's not being literally followed. Estes asked Galvez to keep an ear out to find out if she is up to something on the side. There have been a couple of occasions where he would ask her where she was. He just needs to keep up with what she is doing in terms of her job.

Saul questions Carrie because he's known her for quite some time. He's essentially her mentor. She learned under his wing. He knows her very well. He's tough with her and also very protective in a fatherly way. This is my assessment.

You know, this series isn't all that complicated. Why the massive confusion I just don't understand. The viewer just needs to pay attention. The writers clearly believe that the viewers are intelligent enough to follow what is unfolding in front of them. Sure does it keep you guessing? Of course. An interesting plot line would. That's the fun of it.

Also, you don't need to have everything spelled out for you. For example, Carrie and her pills. Do you really need to see her taking her meds or for that matter, getting her meds from her sister? Come on. Just sayin'.

I crossed my mind, because of the language he used to describe him, but that could be the writers, distracting us from a real plot direction. I am not so sure American mainstream would really be brave enough to go in that direction either.


That was my thought after last night too. Neither knowing the other's part in mission. I thought maybe along with all the brainwashing and manipulation they had undergone, their families were at risk too, which compelled them more.

Alternately Brody could be deep undercover, but so could Abu Nazir, maybe he has turned Abu Nazir and they are working on defeating a terrorist attack/ defecting.



I still want Brody to be a good guy, hence the above speculation.

Best post i've read thus far. Some people clearly do need everything spelled out.

Actually he asked Galvez to watch her, but I was using the term surveillance loosely in any case. We also don't know that Galvez agreed to do so, he seemed reluctant at best and he may not be following through on Estes'...I don't know that I can call it an order, suggestion maybe.

I used that particular incident as an example of what, on the surface, appear to be crucial incidents that have five minutes of airtime and then are tossed away as if unimportant. Homeland is an enjoyable spy vs terrorist romp, but it will feel more than a little disappointed if these loose ends aren't tied up before the end of the series. It will seem, to me at least, as if the writers changed direction when a second series was commissioned.


Was this for someone else's benefit? I think the one thing not questionable is Saul's role in Carrie's career


One poster asked about the meds, so no need for the patronising remarks. A successful whodunnit will always prompt a guessing game type discussion, as will plot holes, but that does not equal massive confusion.

I'm in two minds about this series. The production and characterisation are very good, but the plot holes are making it more and more impossible to believe.

- Carrie's supposed to be a senior agent, very good at her job. Yet, knowing that Helen Walker is on the phone to Tom, she goes around the house shouting into her own phone. Great work - if Walker hears her, he'll hang up straight away. As he did when Carrie found Helen outside and promptly started shouting at her. You can only explain so much by saying "oh, she's bipolar." If it affected her work to that extent, she'd be out of a job. Are the CIA so incompetent?

- The CIA believe that Tom Walker was smuggled back into the country to assassinate the President. Yet the main value of a "turned" soldier is that he won't be suspected - he can get through a lot of security barriers, as Brody has done. So why would the terrorists try to convince everybody that Walker is dead? Why waste him on a job that could be done by any expert marksman? Either it's very lazy writing, or the terrorists have another task for Walker. Again, it makes the CIA look pretty stupid.

- As others have said, Walker being alive doesn't prove that Brody hasn't been turned, but even Paranoid Carrie doesn't seem to suspect him now.

It's a good romp, and I fully intend to watch the rest of the series, but serious drama it ain't.

A silly comment, unsupported by anything you said above. Carrie didn't start yelling till Mrs. Walker had already given up the game, and in your third paragraph you just show that you don't know what the terrorist plan is. And your nonsense about "any expert marksman" is laughable. Where is the evidence that al-Qaeda has EVER had any expert marksmen, let alone marksmen trained to the calibre of a US military-trained expert? A bunch of religious fanatics with guns who are neither very smart nor sane to begin with have limitations (the terrorists who are intelligent and sane are of course the leaders, and they have no intention of putting themselves in immediate danger, which is why they have to rely on idiots like the "Shoe Bomber" and the "Underwear Bomber" at the operations level).

No need to be uncivil. Just look again - Carrie was shouting into her phone as she walked through the house.

And yes, they do have some pretty good snipers. I know some people just back from Afghanistan who can attest the fact.

My point, if you were to read carefully, is that the CIA are being portrayed as a bunch of blinkered halfwits. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.

Brody was promoted to Gunnery Sergeant some time after his return(and his service stripes were updated as well). But he had just Sergeant stripes on his Dress Blues. Can't think of a reason why this would be. If his Blues weren't up to date he wouldn't wear them- he would dress in his Green uniform(which is up to date- we saw it when he gave that speech to fellow Soldiers/Marines).

There have always been people who, without any kind of training, are "good shots" with a rifle in their hands. That is not the same level of expertise as that possessed by a professional sniper trained within a top military's structure. And even if a terrorist organization DID have other snipers it thought at minimum capable of the task, why wouldn't they use the BEST sniper they have at their disposal, if the mission is so important?

And throughout its history the CIA has made plenty of mistakes, and have done dumber things than anything we have seen in Homeland. I have seen a lot of comments from people on the net foolishly claiming that Homeland is "American propaganda," but the willingness to paint an unflattering picture of the US authorities -- at ALL levels -- is just one reason why such comments have no credibility.

missed this to nite, some catchin up to do . sure everyone is interested in this noo Spoilers!!!!!^^

I agree with John, this is not a serious drama but that is probably just as well. If it were a serious drama, we would have to take it seriously and frankly that would be nigh on impossible. Just about everything the "baddies" have got away with has not been down to their cunning or intelligence, but the CIA's (and now FBI's) super incompetency.

Carrie did screw up (again) when she continued her own conversation with Galvez as she approached Mrs Walker outside the house (you know how she rolls her eyes? I was doing the same to her when she did that). She may not have shouted exactly, but she did refer to Tom as "the target" within earshot of Mrs Walker and whoever was on the other end of that phone.

@barnsleykeith. I'm glad I am not knowledgable about stripes/dress uniforms, that probably would have really annoyed me if I were.

That was most likely an accident, I highly doubt CIA officers always get everything right. That being said, it's fictional and shouldn't be taken too seriously. No need to microanalyse it down to minute detail.

Ahh ok thanks, i dont know why i thought it was Abu Nazir though

Did Sept 11 pass you by??

What purpose did it serve to tell Carrie exactly what was happening with the chase involving Walker. She was in his garden, the chase was in streets and she was asking for street names etc. What was the point of it.

Is she the only person in USA who 'gets everything'?