I don't think Gains is in cahoots with Nazir tealady. But it looks like she's someone else's political puppet and that someone behind the scenes (with Saudi money) is happy for/helping her to do what she can to get Brody to run for office.

The Saudi Embassy guy knew someone from the VP's office would be in touch with Brody shortly...and then we get the the phone call from the VP's office at the end....

Another thing struck me about Brody - way back in one of the early eps he tells a story at a BBQ of him meeting the Vice-President on his return and shaking his hand teling everyone at the BBQ he didn't even know the VP's name.

We now know he saw that news coverage of the drone attack sometime after it happened while he was still in "captivity". So Brody has known who VP William Walden was all along.

Hmm, so Nazir is in cahoots with another player. If so, then that will be one of those conspriracy things I hate. "How do 3 people keep a secret - when 2 of them are dead"

Who was the man showing Brody the TV clip? Was he the Saudi Embassy official or was he someone else?

I'm beginning to suspect Galvarez again.

Yep it was the Saudi official again RP.

I think Estes is the source of the leak in the CIA, intentionally or not, but not sure whether he's been tipping off the Saudi official directly or if that was done through someone else.

I rarely use strong language, but what utter twoddle you wrote.

In my opinion, the whole point of good drama is to build up tension, build up the suspense, provide a few twists and turns along the way, maybe a small revelation each episode, but not too much so you are kept guessing what will happen next and how it will end. You can only tell if "the wheels have come off" if they get to the end and the plotting didn't make sense (e.g. Heros Seasons 2 onward), there are still many unanswered questions (e.g. FlashForwards) or you just get bored and stop watching (e.g. Lost).

At this point I WANT many unanswered questions, and many possible endings. This isn't Spooks where everything is wrapped up at the end of each episode. I like long complex stories, as long as the writers know how to draw it all to a fantastic climax at the end (I am very hopeful as the writing has been excellent so far).

If you can't cope with not knowing who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, and need everything explained as it happens, rather than in two or three weeks time, feel free to watch something else. The wheels are firmly on this wagon, and it's heading to its destination at an amazing pace!

The waters are getting murky aren't they? I just hope most of this comes to a satisfactory conclusion at the end of ep 12. I'll be really annoyed if too much is left hanging or not tied up by the end of this series.

Now Saul and Carrie are onto the Saudi we should start getting some answers.....his name would be good for starters so I can stop calling him Saudi in the audi or Saudi Embassy guy on here.

Yes that crossed my mind too. Was he brought in daily or did he live there with Brody? There were no women present. Did he have a mother? Was he an orphan?


I'm beginning to think that the bomb was set off by Nazir and the boy was killed on purpose. As a result, Brody who had become attached to Issa? would hate the Americans and could easily be turned.
Nazir was afraid Brody wasn't going to go ahead with the plan he's been plotting, has cleverly reminded Brody of the event...

Depends now, where Brody's loyalty lies.

That didn't even cross my mind RP. Yes, it could well be as the VP reported it after all. I love this programme!

WOW!
So no more mr niceguy.....

I hope it's not him Denley, because of what Verence said...that Brits are always cast as baddies in US dramas.
They can't be that stereotypical, surely.

Sounds good to me, D

Got to dash. Will be back later to catch up with everyone's theories.

Ha ha, I was waiting for your kettle to boil after that tealady! Patience and hopefully most of your questions will be answered. If not I'll be miffed as well.


oh yes they can!

Yeah I like it too. a name would be good though....

See you later RP. I'm all out of my own thoughts on this now too. It'll be good to see what other FM's can come up with on the thread later on.

I think the plot is getting heavier towards the end because I'm kinda of losing my way through the story.

I thought it was a brilliant episode of Homeland and it revealed so much!

I loved the flashback scenes. So basically Brody was captured, tortured but then eventually released to teach English to Abu Nazir's son Issa. Issa then dies in an attack from the American military which killed lots of other children which the American Vice President denied and lied about or did he? So Abu Nazir made Brody take a vow to avenge the death of his son. Does that mean Brody's been brainwashed? Not necessarily, but it does mean Brody is out for revenge. How Walker fits into this i have no idea whatsoever. Maybe Brody is meant to do one thing and Walker is meant to do something else entirely? Walker is definetely a dangerous entity. Superb acting from Lewis and the child actor who played Issa.

Only thing that bothered me is when Brody got attacked in the supermarket car park surely there would have been witnesses and/or car park CCTV to have seen the attack? I also don't understand why it was necessary for the attack to have been so brutal. Abu Nazir could have gotten in touch with Brody in a much simpler fashion than what was taken.

Do we know for sure that issa is nazir's son? Is there any corroboration of this? Someone posted above about the drone actually being a bombinh by nazir, so was that a sacrifice to secure brody's allegiance?

The VP admitted on TV that an strike took place. But it was very fortuitous for Abu Nazir- it's looking like the death of the boy was the catalyst that turned Brody. Maybe Nazir set the strike up. ie leaked the location to the US, knowing they would bomb the compound and kill the kids?

Or Issa is Nazir's son. And his death was just bad luck that he used to turn Brody?

That's fair. Series 5 of 24 was a cracker, far better than the last ones. Only 1 & 3 came up to it IMO. The less said about 2 the better even if I have it on DVD. It takes exceptional talent to keep the quality up in series as well done as this and 24.



I've never seen that, I ws otherwise occupied at the time and telly was something to be fitted in. You are so going to get it if I dont enjoy it as I've just forked out the princely sum of £3.75 for the DVD secondhand from amazon. If Bill Nighy and David Morrisey are in it, chances are high that I'll love it.


I did wonder if he actually was his son, if not it couldn't have been a street kid, couldn't it? He was very bright and picked up stuff so quickly.
Still at least I'm thinking, which is a step in the right direction.

That's what J-J and RP have questionned earlier tl. Maybe the children were blown up by Abu Nazir's terrorists after the drone attack, possible, but I'm going with the US cover up side of things.

Abu Nazir gave Brody a surrogate son. To love in place of his own son. Issa's death was just enough to turn Brody. The more I think about it, Nazir brought on the drone attack.

The US killed the children in the strike(having been duped into thinking Nazir would be there). Or the children were killed after the attack and their bodies placed in the rubble.

Brody was told the VP was responsible for the drone attack. So Walker goes after the President(Marine One), and Brody goes after the VP? al-Qaeda does like to go after multiple targets all at once.

I agree. It makes no sense to think that Nazir brought Brody out just to teach his son English. There was clearly another agenda going on, so Isa's death must have been planned all along to turn Brody.

In all likelihood Nazir might have known that Brody was a family man and would have a son around Isa's age waiting at home, so he would make a strong emotional bond with the boy.

I'm intrigued to find out how they got to Walker, though.

I'm going with the cover up theory. Vice President Walden was the former director of the CIA. I'm wondering if the CIA mole was also recruited shortly after this cover up?

Some personality clash with Walden on moral grounds perhaps? or maybe the drone attack was ordered despite them knowing the school was just next door?

That would turn my stomach if I knew about it and tried to stop it going ahead but failed.

Walker's wife gave up on him much earlier than Jess did on Brody(haven't been keeping a track of the timeline so can't be certain). Did Nazir use this to leverage Walker?

Issa was killed three years previous according to the onscreen graphics. So Jess would still be faithful when the drone attack happened?

I would say Nazir leaked the location of the school knowing it would be hit. He introduced Issa to Brody so he could turn him after the hit. The VP ordered the coverup after they found out about the dead kids. Or the US knew kids were in the compound and ordered the strike anyway?

PS
Do Issa and Chris look alike?

Time for some Cidre and Football.

Looks that way, plus a bomb to ensure that Issa is killed, else the whole pyschological thing to turn Brody via several steps makes no sense.
But what is Brody's mission? I don't think it is to kill the VP, maybe show that the US is rotten at the top and destroy it from within.