Three want iPhone 4 back

cwmparc · 16-02-2012, 17:47

I am 9 months into a 24 month contract with Three. I have had no end of problems with them and the last straw was poor signal.
Anyway, they have agreed there is nothing they can do to solve this, and have said they will terminate my contract without charge. But they are asking for the iPhone 4 to be returned, can they do this as I paid £19.00 upfront for the phone, and surely the phone was an enticement to join 3.
Can I refuse to send the phone back to them ?

wilt · 16-02-2012, 17:51

Only if you want them to rescind their offer to terminate the contract without charge.

cwmparc · 16-02-2012, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilt

Only if you want them to rescind their offer to terminate the contract without charge.

Thats what I thought

Inspiration · 16-02-2012, 17:55

You can... and they will rightly refuse to cancel your contract.

The phone is worth £499 for the cheapest iPhone 4S. The reason they get you on a 24 month contract is you pay off the phone over those 24 months. After 9 months you won't have paid anywhere near the amount required and so they want their phone back. iPhone's have never been and will never be given away as 'freebies' to get people to sign up. They're far too expensive.

Edit: Just realised you're on an iPhone 4.. but same applies. They're still expensive phones.

wilt · 16-02-2012, 17:56

Whether you are legally correct re. the phone just being an incentive or not, I am not sure. However, whether you are technically allowed to keep the phone or not, Three will rescind that offer and you will end up going through arbitration with the ombudsman who may or may not find in your favour.

falko89 · 16-02-2012, 19:21

The term incentive is there to suit the providers not you, They use it against you when you complain it doesn't work or whatever IE we can't do anything, doesn't work the other way around I'm afraid.

!!11oneone · 16-02-2012, 19:29

The phone is not an incentive to join. It's a contract: we'll give you this phone and these minutes/data/texts, you pay x upfront and y every month.

They're being very reasonable in letting you out of an otherwise legally binding contract. You need to do your part in returning the phone, they'll do their part in not taking any more money off you.

chenks · 16-02-2012, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgsh2006

Firstly it is NOT Three's phone it is the legal property of the OP.

actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months).

the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed.

think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for.

Thine Wonk · 16-02-2012, 20:52

I often interest myself with legal matters and regularly listen to the Legal hour on LBC each week which has legal issues and consumer questions like this all the time.

tgsh, the problem the OP will have is that no court in the land will believe that the OP is bringing that claim now after 9 months regarding coverage. Any action to terminate would have needed to have been done within days of the contact starting.

If the OP decided not to pay and Three filed a CCJ they would have little chance of defending the claim.

The reasonable man in the street , or as the legal term states 'officious bystander' might ask why the OP took 9 months to decide on this action, rather than returning the phone and exiting the contract in the first week. No network guarantees coverage everywhere, it's quite clearly stated in the terms that coverage is reliant on building type, and other factors and that universal coverage everywhere you go is not possible with radio technology and never will be.

There was a question very similar to this on the legal hour last week (which is co hosted by a respected practising solicitor who answers the questions), and the problem here will be the OP has left it far too long, if you wanted out of the contract on the basis of coverage it would have needed to have been done very soon (within a few days at most) of taking out the contract.

cwmparc · 16-02-2012, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

I often interest myself with legal matters and regularly listen to the Legal hour on LBC each week which has legal issues and consumer questions like this all the time.

tgsh, the problem the OP will have is that no court in the land will believe that the OP is bringing that claim now after 9 months regarding coverage. Any action to terminate would have needed to have been done within days of the contact starting.

The reasonable man in the street , or as the legal term states 'officious bystander' might ask why the OP took 9 months to decide on this action, rather than returning the phone and exiting the contract in the first week. No network guarantees coverage everywhere, it's quite clearly stated in the terms that coverage is reliant on building type, and other factors and that universal coverage everywhere you go is not possible with radio technology and never will be.

There was a question very similar to this on the legal hour last week (which is co hosted by a respected practising solicitor who answers the questions), and the problem here will be the OP has left it far too long, if you wanted out of the contract on the basis of coverage it would have needed to have been done very soon (within a few days at most) of taking out the contract.

The signal deteriation only started about 4 weeks ago, this is why I am 9 months into contract. Three have said there is a coverage issue that will not be rectified anytime soon

ShaunIOW · 16-02-2012, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenks

actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months).

the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed.

think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for.

Thats rubbish - when Dads Samsung Galaxy went wrong a year into a 2 year Orange contract - due they say to moisture damage even though its never got wet or even damp, Orange basically said tough, buy a new phone - if as you say the phone was still the networks then they would have had to replace it or they would be in breach of contract supplying the service. Also, how do people get away with selling upgrades as soon as they get them?

paulbrock · 16-02-2012, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenks

actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months).

the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed.

think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for.

I'm not convinced. I reckon the liability is merely the contract tariff. Three can offer to waive that in exchange for your phone, but if you defaulted on your monthly payments they'd have no right to the phone.

plymouthbloke1974 · 16-02-2012, 23:25

The phone is yours from day 1. In your T&C's it will state the phone is not a part of your contract, however in order to recoup their loss (and equally, balance your legal indebtedness to the network) they'll ask for the handset back. That way they lose less money and equally your released from your financial obligation.

shaggy_x · 17-02-2012, 07:34

my mate had a very similar issue with 3 a few months into his iphone contract. Three terminated his contract and he bought the phone outright for £99

1mackem · 17-02-2012, 09:12

if u payed a fee for the phone u own part of the phone just ignore them thats what i would do

1mackem · 17-02-2012, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulbrock

I'm not convinced. I reckon the liability is merely the contract tariff. Three can offer to waive that in exchange for your phone, but if you defaulted on your monthly payments they'd have no right to the phone.

3 are at fault so u dont have do out i had problems with 3 and the got nout off me no fee no hand set

Tassium · 17-02-2012, 09:31

I do think the 'phone is the OPs property, however a person can agree to swap property in exchange for something.

In this case the ending of a contract.

Of course '3' might not agree to end the contract if the 'phone is not gifted to them. In which case who knows what the solution would be?

For myself I would just be glad to get away from the whole thing and would gift them the 'phone. Maybe ask for the £19 back as well?

metanoia · 17-02-2012, 10:16

Cut the phone into 8 pieces and send them back 5 of them.

Sorted.

Daveoc64 · 17-02-2012, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

I do think the 'phone is the OPs property, however a person can agree to swap property in exchange for something.

In this case the ending of a contract.

Exactly.

The Lord Lucan · 17-02-2012, 12:50

You will have to hand it back as your not even half way into the contract. It still part of the contract and therefore Three's.

Second it will be locked to Three and its unlikely they would unlock it even if you did get to keep it. Making it useless to you unless you wanted to sell it. Which is unfair as it cost Three a few hundred pounds. Hand it back and walk away or you could approach them to buy it as a used phone..

Try a few PAYG sims in your area to check coverage next time.

paulbrock · 17-02-2012, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

Second it will be locked to Three and its unlikely they would unlock it even if you did get to keep it.

Don't need 3 to unlock your phone, plenty of companies will do it.

A few options detailed here:
http://giffgaff.com/unlock

Daveoc64 · 17-02-2012, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

You will have to hand it back as your not even half way into the contract. It still part of the contract and therefore Three's.

No it's not.

When you take out the contract, the phone is yours from the start.

If they retained ownership, they'd be responsible if the phone was lost, stolen, faulty or damaged for the duration of the contract - that's absolutely NOT in their interests to be liable for.

As others have pointed out, they're merely saying:

"Sure, we'll let you out of the contract, but we want your phone as compensation".

shaggy_x · 17-02-2012, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulbrock

Don't need 3 to unlock your phone, plenty of companies will do it.

A few options detailed here:
http://giffgaff.com/unlock

sadly for iPhones you're pretty much stuck and you have to go to whatever network its locked on.

swordman · 17-02-2012, 17:40

Wow so many views.

My two pence worth would be that it depends on how the phone was provided to you, if you paid a sum for it regardless of it being discounted then it is your phone.

As you have described the contract is being voided through no fault of yours and you remained party to this contract up until then in good faith,

If the phone was supplied as part of the contract ... which I think unlikely otherwise it would not be yourseven after 24 months ... It would indicate that you have paid more than the value of the airtime in order to purchase the phone. It would therefore be reasonable if they wish the phone back for them to refund you the element of the phone cost over the 9 months or for them to allow you to purchase the outstanding amount remaining on the phone.

ACU · 17-02-2012, 17:59

The phone is not part of the contract. Your contract with three is to provide you with minutes, texts and data. The phone has nothing to do with that. You paid £19 for the phone, the phone is yours.

I would not give the phone back. Three can try it on, but you dont have to send it back.

A couple of years ago when the whole vodafone saga kicked off (i.e. they started to enforce the 500mb data limit), I managed to get out of my contract. I was approx 6 months into an 18 month contract. They asked for the phone back, I said no, the phone was mine (I had also paid around £20 for the handset) and wasnt part of the airtime agreement. The operator said ok, no problem.

It depends on how far you want to take it, but I wouldnt send it back. If three insist, I would ask for £19 that you paid, plus delivery charges of £25 (or any reasonable figure). If they say they will send a courier, say they can only collect after 7pm and on Sundays. I would certainly make it difficult for them - mainly because legally the phone is yours.

Since the phone was yours, they can not complain about what sort of condition they get it back in. So if its scuffed up and covered in scratches, thats there problem.

16-02-2012, 17:47	#1
cwmparc Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Wales Posts: 359	Three want iPhone 4 back I am 9 months into a 24 month contract with Three. I have had no end of problems with them and the last straw was poor signal. Anyway, they have agreed there is nothing they can do to solve this, and have said they will terminate my contract without charge. But they are asking for the iPhone 4 to be returned, can they do this as I paid £19.00 upfront for the phone, and surely the phone was an enticement to join 3. Can I refuse to send the phone back to them ?

16-02-2012, 17:51	#2
wilt Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Potterspury Posts: 930	Only if you want them to rescind their offer to terminate the contract without charge.

16-02-2012, 17:54	#3
cwmparc Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Wales Posts: 359	Quote: Originally Posted by wilt Only if you want them to rescind their offer to terminate the contract without charge. Thats what I thought

16-02-2012, 17:55	#4
Inspiration Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 53,398	You can... and they will rightly refuse to cancel your contract. The phone is worth £499 for the cheapest iPhone 4S. The reason they get you on a 24 month contract is you pay off the phone over those 24 months. After 9 months you won't have paid anywhere near the amount required and so they want their phone back. iPhone's have never been and will never be given away as 'freebies' to get people to sign up. They're far too expensive. Edit: Just realised you're on an iPhone 4.. but same applies. They're still expensive phones.

16-02-2012, 17:56	#5
wilt Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Potterspury Posts: 930	Whether you are legally correct re. the phone just being an incentive or not, I am not sure. However, whether you are technically allowed to keep the phone or not, Three will rescind that offer and you will end up going through arbitration with the ombudsman who may or may not find in your favour.

16-02-2012, 19:21	#6
falko89 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 542	The term incentive is there to suit the providers not you, They use it against you when you complain it doesn't work or whatever IE we can't do anything, doesn't work the other way around I'm afraid.

16-02-2012, 19:29	#7
!!11oneone Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,807	The phone is not an incentive to join. It's a contract: we'll give you this phone and these minutes/data/texts, you pay x upfront and y every month. They're being very reasonable in letting you out of an otherwise legally binding contract. You need to do your part in returning the phone, they'll do their part in not taking any more money off you.

16-02-2012, 20:47	#8
chenks Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Ayrshire Posts: 11,399	Quote: Originally Posted by tgsh2006 Firstly it is NOT Three's phone it is the legal property of the OP. actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months). the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed. think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for.

16-02-2012, 20:52	#9
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	I often interest myself with legal matters and regularly listen to the Legal hour on LBC each week which has legal issues and consumer questions like this all the time. tgsh, the problem the OP will have is that no court in the land will believe that the OP is bringing that claim now after 9 months regarding coverage. Any action to terminate would have needed to have been done within days of the contact starting. If the OP decided not to pay and Three filed a CCJ they would have little chance of defending the claim. The reasonable man in the street , or as the legal term states 'officious bystander' might ask why the OP took 9 months to decide on this action, rather than returning the phone and exiting the contract in the first week. No network guarantees coverage everywhere, it's quite clearly stated in the terms that coverage is reliant on building type, and other factors and that universal coverage everywhere you go is not possible with radio technology and never will be. There was a question very similar to this on the legal hour last week (which is co hosted by a respected practising solicitor who answers the questions), and the problem here will be the OP has left it far too long, if you wanted out of the contract on the basis of coverage it would have needed to have been done very soon (within a few days at most) of taking out the contract.

16-02-2012, 22:29	#10
cwmparc Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Wales Posts: 359	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk I often interest myself with legal matters and regularly listen to the Legal hour on LBC each week which has legal issues and consumer questions like this all the time. tgsh, the problem the OP will have is that no court in the land will believe that the OP is bringing that claim now after 9 months regarding coverage. Any action to terminate would have needed to have been done within days of the contact starting. The reasonable man in the street , or as the legal term states 'officious bystander' might ask why the OP took 9 months to decide on this action, rather than returning the phone and exiting the contract in the first week. No network guarantees coverage everywhere, it's quite clearly stated in the terms that coverage is reliant on building type, and other factors and that universal coverage everywhere you go is not possible with radio technology and never will be. There was a question very similar to this on the legal hour last week (which is co hosted by a respected practising solicitor who answers the questions), and the problem here will be the OP has left it far too long, if you wanted out of the contract on the basis of coverage it would have needed to have been done very soon (within a few days at most) of taking out the contract. The signal deteriation only started about 4 weeks ago, this is why I am 9 months into contract. Three have said there is a coverage issue that will not be rectified anytime soon

16-02-2012, 23:10	#11
ShaunIOW Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 7,828	Quote: Originally Posted by chenks actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months). the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed. think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for. Thats rubbish - when Dads Samsung Galaxy went wrong a year into a 2 year Orange contract - due they say to moisture damage even though its never got wet or even damp, Orange basically said tough, buy a new phone - if as you say the phone was still the networks then they would have had to replace it or they would be in breach of contract supplying the service. Also, how do people get away with selling upgrades as soon as they get them?

16-02-2012, 23:18	#12
paulbrock Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wapping, London Posts: 16,222	Quote: Originally Posted by chenks actually it's not until the OPs property until the length of the contract has completed (be it 12, 18 or 24 months). the phone was supplied at a discounted/subsidised priced based on the assumption that the contract length would be completed. think of the phone on hire purchase (much like a car). you are the registered keeper but not the legal owner until paid for. I'm not convinced. I reckon the liability is merely the contract tariff. Three can offer to waive that in exchange for your phone, but if you defaulted on your monthly payments they'd have no right to the phone.

16-02-2012, 23:25	#13
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	The phone is yours from day 1. In your T&C's it will state the phone is not a part of your contract, however in order to recoup their loss (and equally, balance your legal indebtedness to the network) they'll ask for the handset back. That way they lose less money and equally your released from your financial obligation.

17-02-2012, 07:34	#14
shaggy_x Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Deep South (Yorkshire) Posts: 3,416	my mate had a very similar issue with 3 a few months into his iphone contract. Three terminated his contract and he bought the phone outright for £99

17-02-2012, 09:12	#15
1mackem Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2	if u payed a fee for the phone u own part of the phone just ignore them thats what i would do

17-02-2012, 09:16	#16
1mackem Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2	Quote: Originally Posted by paulbrock I'm not convinced. I reckon the liability is merely the contract tariff. Three can offer to waive that in exchange for your phone, but if you defaulted on your monthly payments they'd have no right to the phone. 3 are at fault so u dont have do out i had problems with 3 and the got nout off me no fee no hand set

17-02-2012, 09:31	#17
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Posts: 24,412	I do think the 'phone is the OPs property, however a person can agree to swap property in exchange for something. In this case the ending of a contract. Of course '3' might not agree to end the contract if the 'phone is not gifted to them. In which case who knows what the solution would be? For myself I would just be glad to get away from the whole thing and would gift them the 'phone. Maybe ask for the £19 back as well?

17-02-2012, 10:16	#18
metanoia Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 595	Cut the phone into 8 pieces and send them back 5 of them. Sorted.

17-02-2012, 11:08	#19
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by Tassium I do think the 'phone is the OPs property, however a person can agree to swap property in exchange for something. In this case the ending of a contract. Exactly.

17-02-2012, 12:50	#20
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	You will have to hand it back as your not even half way into the contract. It still part of the contract and therefore Three's. Second it will be locked to Three and its unlikely they would unlock it even if you did get to keep it. Making it useless to you unless you wanted to sell it. Which is unfair as it cost Three a few hundred pounds. Hand it back and walk away or you could approach them to buy it as a used phone.. Try a few PAYG sims in your area to check coverage next time.

17-02-2012, 13:15	#21
paulbrock Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wapping, London Posts: 16,222	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan Second it will be locked to Three and its unlikely they would unlock it even if you did get to keep it. Don't need 3 to unlock your phone, plenty of companies will do it. A few options detailed here: http://giffgaff.com/unlock

DS Forums

Three want iPhone 4 back

17-02-2012, 13:22	#22
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan You will have to hand it back as your not even half way into the contract. It still part of the contract and therefore Three's. No it's not. When you take out the contract, the phone is yours from the start. If they retained ownership, they'd be responsible if the phone was lost, stolen, faulty or damaged for the duration of the contract - that's absolutely NOT in their interests to be liable for. As others have pointed out, they're merely saying: "Sure, we'll let you out of the contract, but we want your phone as compensation".

17-02-2012, 14:25	#23
shaggy_x Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Deep South (Yorkshire) Posts: 3,416	Quote: Originally Posted by paulbrock Don't need 3 to unlock your phone, plenty of companies will do it. A few options detailed here: http://giffgaff.com/unlock sadly for iPhones you're pretty much stuck and you have to go to whatever network its locked on.

17-02-2012, 17:40	#24
swordman Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,342	Wow so many views. My two pence worth would be that it depends on how the phone was provided to you, if you paid a sum for it regardless of it being discounted then it is your phone. As you have described the contract is being voided through no fault of yours and you remained party to this contract up until then in good faith, If the phone was supplied as part of the contract ... which I think unlikely otherwise it would not be yourseven after 24 months ... It would indicate that you have paid more than the value of the airtime in order to purchase the phone. It would therefore be reasonable if they wish the phone back for them to refund you the element of the phone cost over the 9 months or for them to allow you to purchase the outstanding amount remaining on the phone.

17-02-2012, 17:59	#25
ACU Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 7,916	The phone is not part of the contract. Your contract with three is to provide you with minutes, texts and data. The phone has nothing to do with that. You paid £19 for the phone, the phone is yours. I would not give the phone back. Three can try it on, but you dont have to send it back. A couple of years ago when the whole vodafone saga kicked off (i.e. they started to enforce the 500mb data limit), I managed to get out of my contract. I was approx 6 months into an 18 month contract. They asked for the phone back, I said no, the phone was mine (I had also paid around £20 for the handset) and wasnt part of the airtime agreement. The operator said ok, no problem. It depends on how far you want to take it, but I wouldnt send it back. If three insist, I would ask for £19 that you paid, plus delivery charges of £25 (or any reasonable figure). If they say they will send a courier, say they can only collect after 7pm and on Sundays. I would certainly make it difficult for them - mainly because legally the phone is yours. Since the phone was yours, they can not complain about what sort of condition they get it back in. So if its scuffed up and covered in scratches, thats there problem.