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Responsible breeders? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Responsible breeders?
Like most dog owners, I suspect, occasionally I look through the classifieds at whats on sale at the minute. I saw an advert today which looked curious. It was two french bulldog pups, male £900 female £1200 - but the owners are withholding the papers so that the dogs can't go to breeders. 'Papers can be seen' it says, but not taken home, so we can suppose this is a legitimate claim.
I suppose the owners think they are doing the best they can for the pups, but I think they are misguided. I think the chances of pups going to irresponsible breeders is much higher if they have no papers, because the breeders won't be doing it for the love of the breed, merely because they want to make a cheap buck and they know they can sell such a rare dog, papers or not. The bitch is more likely to be crossed with another, possibly unsuitable breed, rather than a dog approved by the KC. The pups will be untraceable and in a rare breed, could easily interbreed in future by mistake of the owners. And another thing, it assumes a level of snobbery towards the people who may want to breed from the pups. Just because someone isn't a qualified dog breeder, doesn't mean that they won't be a very good and responsible breeder. Just like you can't guarantee that anyone will treat the pups you sell them well. Interested to hear thoughts on this, as I do sympathise with the owners of the pups, but surely if they feel so strongly the best thing to do would be keep the dogs until they are older and have them neutered? |
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#2 |
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What are 'papers' though?
The pedigree? Can be faked. Parent's KC registration? Could be they haven't complied with the KC breeding rules or because their registration is endorsed. Puppies KC papers? Well, if they have them, why no tjust get them endorsed? Most likely back yard breeder out to make a quick buck themselves and haven't registered the pups with the KC because they can't. |
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#3 |
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Quote:
What are 'papers' though?
The pedigree? Can be faked. Parent's KC registration? Could be they haven't complied with the KC breeding rules or because their registration is endorsed. Puppies KC papers? Well, if they have them, why no tjust get them endorsed? Most likely back yard breeder out to make a quick buck themselves and haven't registered the pups with the KC because they can't. I would be surprised if the papers had even come through yet at 8 weeks! |
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#4 |
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A lot of breeders put restrictions on their dog's papers to avoid breeding. In reality it only stops someone registering the puppies with the kennel club. From the breeders I know, endorsements are a small thing to limit the chances of their pups being bred from, but as you rightly acknowledge, this can never be guaranteed. I'm not sure if breeders could effectively sue for breach of contract
I also agree that there could be a small amount of snobbery present too.
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#5 |
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Quote:
A lot of breeders put restrictions on their dog's papers to avoid breeding. In reality it only stops someone registering the puppies with the kennel club. From the breeders I know, endorsements are a small thing to limit the chances of their pups being bred from, but as you rightly acknowledge, this can never be guaranteed. I'm not sure if breeders could effectively sue for breach of contract
I also agree that there could be a small amount of snobbery present too. |
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#6 |
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Do they literally not hand them over, then? I find that a bit weird. But then, I have never bred from a dog and may feel differently if I had.
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#7 |
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Quote:
The puppie's pedigree papers will have endorsements on them to prohibit breeding. In reality, it doesn't actually stop breeding, but it would mean that any future litters couldn't be registered with the kennel club. Endorsements can be lifted by the original breeder.
If people were that responsible then why are they breeding the dogs in the first place. They can't care that much about the welfare of the pups, or they just wouldn't breed them. |
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#8 |
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Quote:
The advert about these pups say that the papers won't be handed over. Must be something dodgy going on then or they could just place an endorsement on the papers.
If people were that responsible then why are they breeding the dogs in the first place. They can't care that much about the welfare of the pups, or they just wouldn't breed them. I've never understood a bitch being more expensive than a dog either and that along with where you saw the advert rings more alarm bells with me than the unwillingness to hand over the papers. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Quote:
Like most dog owners, I suspect, occasionally I look through the classifieds at whats on sale at the minute. I saw an advert today which looked curious. It was two french bulldog pups, male £900 female £1200 - but the owners are withholding the papers so that the dogs can't go to breeders. 'Papers can be seen' it says, but not taken home, so we can suppose this is a legitimate claim.
I suppose the owners think they are doing the best they can for the pups, but I think they are misguided. I think the chances of pups going to irresponsible breeders is much higher if they have no papers, because the breeders won't be doing it for the love of the breed, merely because they want to make a cheap buck and they know they can sell such a rare dog, papers or not. The bitch is more likely to be crossed with another, possibly unsuitable breed, rather than a dog approved by the KC. The pups will be untraceable and in a rare breed, could easily interbreed in future by mistake of the owners. And another thing, it assumes a level of snobbery towards the people who may want to breed from the pups. Just because someone isn't a qualified dog breeder, doesn't mean that they won't be a very good and responsible breeder. Just like you can't guarantee that anyone will treat the pups you sell them well. Interested to hear thoughts on this, as I do sympathise with the owners of the pups, but surely if they feel so strongly the best thing to do would be keep the dogs until they are older and have them neutered? |
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#10 |
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Oxymoron.
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#11 |
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If the "breeder" is withholding papers so they can't be bred from, why are they charging a higher price for bitches? Bad breeders charge more for bitches because they can obviously be bred from!
A responsible breeder would put endorsements on the pedigree, not withhold papers. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Does seem very odd to me. Most people if given the choice (all other things being equal) would surely go for puppies that had papers that you could take away with the puppy, so I can't see it will help them sell their puppies - unless they are selling theirs cheaper than everyone else.
I would actually be suspicious though that the papers were forged by the breeders (they might be afraid I'd realise or be able to check they were forged if I took them away?). On related topic - the Kennel Club themselves are trying to clamp down on puppy farms registering puppies, see http://www.petwebsite.com/article_read_dogs.asp?id=657 |
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I also agree that there could be a small amount of snobbery present too.