Kylie is an entertainer not an artist. She is happy to give the public what they want. Her music has no message other than 'let's have fun!' David Bowie was therefore correct what he said about Robbie and Kylie.It's not really an insult, just the truth.

An artist pushes boundaries, creates their own path, makes you think, creates controversy.

Bowie is an artist. Madonna was an artist until her last two or three albums and now she seems to be following Kylie as an entertainer.

I would say Madonna was an artist (and at her best) during the 80s, but for me, it all went too far from the Erotica album...and all the sex stuff. All that said, I do like the Ray Of Light and Confessions On The Dance Floor albums.

I love both why are they being compared it's obvious Bowie wont like her because for all that i love him he is rather pretentious and would adhere to music snobbery whats wrong with being entertaining.

Well, to be fair, it's not "the truth" at all. What makes someone an artist is subjective. This might be the definition you adhere to, but not everyone else subscribes to that definition. And even if they did, we'd all think differently about whether or not she meets those criteria. It's just your opinion of her at the end of the day. In as much the same way as it's Bowie's opinion of her.

I personally don't have a problem with Kylie being labelled an entertainer. After all, she's entertained me for 25 years. But it is my opinion that she has displayed more artistry during those years than you're evidently giving her credit for. She has a huge wealth of creative output which extends to something a bit more substantial than "let's have fun!"

As for her being happy to give the public what they want, I assume you don't mean when she's done exactly the opposite and sold not a lot of records in the process? The truth is, Kylie has always been eager to push her boundaries, work hard, learn lots and continually better herself. It's the public who don't seem too happy when she ventures off into new creative directions.

Yeah that#'s why he was nominated for a Mercury Price in 2002

"She sings like an actress and acts like a singer"

There is a creative process in what she does and she's come a long way for a TV soap actress, but you can't compare anything she has in her back catalogue to Madonna's Like A Prayer and Justify My Love/Erotica eras. When Kylie has stretched herself out of dance-pop it has failed. Her most creative period - 'Indie Kylie' was rewarded by being dropped by her record company. Her comeback Spinning Around - cowritten by Paula Abdul - was a swift return to what people wanted - more dance pop - and she never went near much in the way of experimentation again.

An true artist reinvents themself, takes risks and challenges public taste and opinion when they create something new. Hopefully - as Bowie did by abandoning Glam to experiment with Plastic Soul and then to electronic soundscapes - they will persuade their audience and take them along on their journey.

For me, I love commercial pop/dance. If any artist goes 'experimental' / 'weird' / 'non-commercial', I'm not interested.

I love Kylie's '87-'92 and '00-'12 periods, along with Madonna's '83-'90 (up to Vogue), '98, '05 and '06. I don't put one above the other. I don't put either on a ped-a-stool. The periods mentioned relating to both are good periods of pop/dance music in my view. Simple as...

My fave Kylie album is Light Years - disco heaven.

And 'Kylie Minogue' when she was with Deconstruction Records - adore Put Yourself In My Place.

.

That's good. I have friends who feel the same. And for the record I like Kylie and own a lot of her music. What Do I Have To Do is one of the most euphoric pop dance songs ever.

It is indeed. I have got some awesome What Do I Have To Do? remixes. Step Back In Time and Better The Devil You Know are also classics to, in my view.

What a horribly back-handed acknowledgement that was. Kylie hasn’t been a soap actress for something like 23 years, plus her beginnings are irrelevant to a discussion about whether or not she is/has been an artist since then.


Apart from the fact that I *can* compare the quality of some of Kylie’s creative output with Madonna’s on those albums, this has absolutely nothing to do with Madonna, nor Bowie, nor anyone else you personally have decided is an artist, for that matter. Comparisons are irrelevant. Would Monet not be an artist because you thought Da Vinci’s work was better, for example?


This is also completely irrelevant (including the cheeky Paula Abdul reference). You didn’t mention success in your earlier definition and now you’re changing the goal posts. You said Kylie wasn’t an artist because she didn’t do what you now admit she has done. But now you’re saying that she’s not an artist because the result wasn’t very popular? Is only popular successful art “true art” now?


Kylie has reinvented herself and done exactly what you said many times. Besides, that’s your definition. It’s not *the* definition.

There are plenty of quotes over the last couple of years from artists such as JLS/Fergie/Britney/Joan Collins/Katy Perry/Rihanna..its just a case if finding them...

Can we not sidetrack from the topic itself ploise!

Thanks

I read something nice about her yesterday in an article about the brits, written by a journalist at the mirror.He was talking through his favourite moments over the years
RuPaul and Kylie (1994)
"Kylie is the one artist who never lets her ego get in the way of a good joke.
So when skyscraper-sized transvestite RuPaul got out his magnifying glass to get a good look at teeny, tiny 5ft Kylie, she just laughed her head off. With some other artists it could have been a BIG problem…"

"Kylie is a favourite backstage. She hangs out with all other artists, makes no demands and has been known to track down and thank the assistants who put Aussie sweets in her room. I spotted her in 2008 chatting with Paul McCartney. The pair just stood at the bar admiring his socks."

Brilliant post. Well put and well explained.

For me, the crucial bit is...is this singer/artist genuine? is what they are doing believable and from the heart? With Kylie and Madonna, the answer is yes.

Were it not for the fact she was a soap actress she would never have come to the UK to make a record. Not being a soap actress for 23 years doesn't mean she never was one - not that there's anything wrong with it. Everyone must start somewhere. When Madonna first moved to New York City and had a very bad start trying to make it as a dancer.


A silly response that defies sensible argument.


Succesful in terms of accolade and positive feedband and succeful enough to experiment more without the record company bailing out. The chart positions of her 'indie' period were okay as far as I can see.She should have battled on and not run back to the dancefloor so quick.


Not really. She moved from cute teenage Smash Hits dolly to a more grown up look and after that just changed her frock. That's not proper reinvention on an artistic level. Her singles over the last 10-12 years could be off any of her albums. All The Lovers could have come directly after I Believe In You or vice versa. What she's not taken from Goldfrapp she's taken from Madonna or even Traci Lords' 1000 Fires. And she gets lots of help from producers and writers (which admitedly Madonna does as well).

Not silly, really. Your opinion of Kylie's creative output in comparison to someone elses is meaningless when ascertaining the truth about whether or not she is an artist. This was never an argument about who was better. If Bowie is better than Madonna (or vice versa) in your eyes, is the other not an artist, too?


You're just making up definitions which fit your opinion that she's not an artist. That's fine. But it's not "the truth" that she's just an entertainer and not an artist, because such a thing is completely subjective, full stop.


In your opinion.


In your opinion.


This is your opinion again. I would be very surprised if Kylie has even heard Traci Lord's album and - since I personally am *very* familiar with 1,000 Fires - I'd be interested for you to explain what elements Kylie has taken.

If someone disagrees with everything you've said here, is Kylie an artist?

FFS can we stick to the topic!

Thankyou stash22, that was a lovely post!

There is always going to be a conflict between commercialism and being experimental in the industry. At the end of the day, the music industry is a business. Record companies are not going to back projects which will fail. Indie Kylie failed because her fan-base (including me) weren't into it. This was born out in her album sales. Her top 5 selling albums in the UK so far, according to Wikipedia...
[LIST=1][*]Kylie (1988) - 2,105,698 UK units[*]Fever (2001) - 1,900,000 UK units [*]Enjoy Yourself (1989) - 1,400,000 UK units[*]Light Years (2000) - 478,281 UK units[*]X (2007) - 462,000 UK units[/LIST]
Impossible Princess (1997) - 60,668 UK units

Re: her image/musical styles...in my opinion...

'87-'89 - pop Kylie/girl-next-door
'90-'92 - dance/club Kylie
'94-'98 - indie Kylie
'00-'01 - dance Kylie
'03-'07 - r 'n' b Kylie
'10-present - dance Kylie

Any other quotes from other celebs??

There was a robbie one when he was praising all the lovers if only i could find it

"Ultimate Kylie" has sold about 1 million copies in the UK, not sure if you're just counting studio albums.


Her 1994 self-titled album was primarily dance with a little bit of an R&B feel on tracks like "If I Was Your Lover" and "Surrender" - it certainly wasn't indie. "Body Language" was definitely trying to build on the success in the US that she achieved with "Fever" by attempting a more sophisticated pop/funk sound with a little lite R&B. I wouldn't necessarily call it an R&B period as it was only a few tracks on the album that had a somewhat lite R&B sound with the majority still being pop/dance. She's primarily been a dance/pop act since the 1980s and has mixed a few different styles in with that on tracks along the way. She certainly wasn't in an R&B period for 4 years as "I Believe in You" and "Giving You Up" were both straight pop songs that were released in 2004/5. I guess she dipped her toe into that lite R&B sound again in 2007 with "All I See" which is somewhat Janet Jackson sounding song.

Indeed I was...but hey ho...

I wouldn't call 'Body Language' pop/dance at all. If it was anything, it was more r'n'b...which I wasn't so keen on. I am so hard to please ay.

I Believe In You and Giving You Up were pop/dance anthems certainly. I had forgotten about them.

Thankyou for the interesting insight there miles19740...Do you have any celebrity quotes re Kylie?

In general Kylie is loved by many celebrities and i have never heard another celebrity say she is rude or anything like that. Of course there is a few like Noel etc that dont like her music etc which is fair enough as altho i adore her music i can see it isnt everyones cup of tea. She has built up alot of respect for herself in the industry and that doesnt come easy.