[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

GPS receivers indoors are pretty much useless unless you have it up at a window

I doubt anyone would go that amount of trouble when you could use an IP address. Its not a perfect solution and can be spoofed. But will any of the networks care enough?

The networks DO care for two reasons:

1) They would lose out on international roaming revenue.

2) It's illegal activity that they REALLY do not want to enable! They wouldn't want people using their licensed spectrum in an unauthorised manner (remember that most of these companies have networks all over the world).

I don't think the Vodafone Sure Signal uses GPS, but the AT&T Microcell does in the US (AT&T's branded Cisco device has an antenna port to make it easier to get the GPS lock)

[reclusive46]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

The networks DO care for two reasons:

1) They would lose out on international roaming revenue.

2) It's illegal activity that they REALLY do not want to enable! They wouldn't want people using their licensed spectrum in an unauthorised manner (remember that most of these companies have networks all over the world).

I don't think the Vodafone Sure Signal uses GPS, but the AT&T Microcell does in the US (AT&T's branded Cisco device has an antenna port to make it easier to get the GPS lock)

Vodafone sure signal does not. It just uses IP address and blocks none UK IPs but the main reason the AT&T micro cell has GPS is because AT&T had different spectrum in different states, so it needs to change depending on the state.

[Everything Goes]

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

The networks DO care for two reasons:

1) They would lose out on international roaming revenue.

2) It's illegal activity that they REALLY do not want to enable! They wouldn't want people using their licensed spectrum in an unauthorised manner (remember that most of these companies have networks all over the world).

I don't think the Vodafone Sure Signal uses GPS, but the AT&T Microcell does in the US (AT&T's branded Cisco device has an antenna port to make it easier to get the GPS lock)

The AT&T Microcell does indeed require a GPS signal for it to operate.

Like you and reclusive46 have said the Vodafone Sure Signal does not have GPS.

The Femtocell that 3 are using looks like the NEC FP810 also branded as Ubiquisys G3-mini which does not support GPS.

http://www.slashgear.com/nec-fp810-f...rates-1073529/


As for legality most countries allow Femtocells. But do check first! Im sure a few enterprising people may take them abroad and spoof a UK IP Address. But I hardly think it will be enough to worry the networks too much about lost revenue. With the EU regulator clamping down on excessive call charges in Europe there will be even less incentive to do so. Plus most of the public wouldn't have a clue about setting up a VPN.

[natbike]

Originally Posted by gold fire 201

It depends orange`s system uses voip.Wheres a femtocell is like a mini mast in your house and any 3g phone will work with it straight out of the box with out any additional mucking about,

It may be more of a problem than you think.

Vodafone suresignal has to be paired to each phones IEMI, with a max of 5 phones. So it doesn't seem out of the box easy.

Also, one box will help with signal problems in one place. UMA (if it works) will fix your signal issues wherever there is wifi. I would prefer UMA, but I don't know if I'll be lucky enough on o2.

[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by natbike

Vodafone suresignal has to be paired to each phones IEMI, with a max of 5 phones. So it doesn't seem out of the box easy

You register devices on Sure Signal by Phone Number rather than IMEI, so I'd say that is pretty simple for people to use.

You can also register up to 32 devices in total - it's restricted to 5 devices being connected to it at any one time.

[gold fire 201]

Originally Posted by natbike

It may be more of a problem than you think.

Vodafone suresignal has to be paired to each phones IEMI, with a max of 5 phones. So it doesn't seem out of the box easy.

Also, one box will help with signal problems in one place. UMA (if it works) will fix your signal issues wherever there is wifi. I would prefer UMA, but I don't know if I'll be lucky enough on o2.

The way vodafone Sure Signal works is that the phone numbers are registered on the system not the imei number.Meaning you can take the simcard out of the phone and put it in a different one and it works.

[halewood]

I've just had a phone call from 3 with regards to poor reception at home I've had for months.
I was told 'Home Signal is not compatible in my area' - I don't know if I believe them. We have 4 contracts with them in our house and a broadband dongle.

[Thine Wonk]

It's only being trialled at the moment, it should be more widely available soon.

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

It's only being trialled at the moment, it should be more widely available soon.

Not a very plausable excuse for anyone with multiple contracts at a home location. The bottom line is that if 3 refuse to provide a solution the customer should have the right to terminate their contracts as there now exists a technical solution to poor coverage.

[Thine Wonk]

There always exists a technical solution, but unfortunately that's not how it works. It's being trialled and presumably when they do roll out fully they will need the infrastructure to support it, which will mean more servers etc than a small scale initial rollout.

I shouldn't imagine they will be waiting long.

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

There always exists a technical solution, but unfortunately that's not how it works. It's being trialled and presumably when they do roll out fully they will need the infrastructure to support it, which will mean more servers etc than a small scale initial rollout.

I shouldn't imagine they will be waiting long.

Its a pico cell connected to a different company's ISP network. It's nothing whatsoever to do with 3's infrastructure.

Vodafone have had Sure Signal out for over a year now so 3 who have more coverage issues due to no GSM in a lot of places should have worked out something similar for their customers.

Orange's solution is a good one using Wi-Fi on enabled handsets, no extra hardware required.

3 need to get their act together and support existing users with as much effort as attracting new customers or they will forever be busy churn fools.

3's record supporting existing customers with readily available technology should provide a warning signal to anyone tempted to join them.

[wilt]

I think you're downplaying the difficulties of getting femtocells to work, wavejock.

o2 released documentation that appears to be for their own version of femtocells (BoostBoxes) months ago, yet these are nowhere to be seen. It obviously isn't as simple as ordering them from an OEM, then having users plug them into their phone line.

Vodafone had many issues with SureSignal boxes when they were first released. Perhaps both Three and o2 are testing their devices extensively, hence the slow roll outs?

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by wilt

Perhaps both Three and o2 are testing their devices extensively, hence the slow roll outs?

Or perhaps both are not keen on spending additional money on the proven hardware?

O2 dont have much of an issue with extensive seamless GSM coverage for voice and SMS but 3 do where they have ditched Orange roaming. Surprising they have not embraced pico cell and WiFi technology solutions before now.

[wilt]

Do Sagem Femtocells cost considerably more than NEC Alcatel-Lucent ones?

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by wilt

Do Sagem Femtocells cost considerably more than NEC or Alcatel-Lucent ones?

No idea but I would guess they have to compete and be similarly priced as will Huewai and ZTE products.

[wilt]

Okay, I am trying to understand why you would assume that the SureSignal box is more expensive and more 'proven' than the ones selected by Three and o2.

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by wilt

Okay, I am trying to understand why you would assume that the SureSignal box is more expensive and more 'proven' than the ones selected by Three and o2.

There was no inference it was more expensive at all. It is obviously more proven as it's out in the market where others are 'trialling'.

The Vodafone Sure Signal initiiave was a bold step and probably costly but a commitment to coverage and customer service.

There are plenty of suppliers of pico cells so to compete and serve as well as Vodafone others have to source and supply solutions.

[Stiggles]

I've got one coming tomorrow so shall let you know what its like

[reclusive46]

Originally Posted by Stiggles

I've got one coming tomorrow so shall let you know what its like

Lucky you. Three wouldn't let me have one.

[wilt]

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

There was no inference it was more expensive at all.

Okay, but then what did you mean by this?

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Or perhaps both are not keen on spending additional money on the proven hardware?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

It is obviously more proven as it's out in the market where others are 'trialling'

In the UK, perhaps, but I personally can't comment on the state of the femtocell market abroad. If you can, then please, throw some links my way.

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

The Vodafone Sure Signal initiiave was a bold step and probably costly but a commitment to coverage and customer service.

It probably was very costly, yes, but it still had problems at launch. Problems that other operators will be looking to avoid.

[wavejockglw]

Originally Posted by wilt

Okay, but then what did you mean by this?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

In the UK, perhaps, but I personally can't comment on the state of the femtocell market abroad. If you can, then please, throw some links my way.

It probably was very costly, yes, but it still had problems at launch. Problems that other operators will be looking to avoid.

You misunderstood as Vodafone were the first to invest in the pico cell technology. Obvioulsy an expense for them but they perhaps considered it worthwhile in terms of an investment in customer service whilst others dithered or chose not to bother.

It should not be a surprise that Hauwei and ZTE will undercut European and other suppliers to deliver hardware like pico cells. They already dominate the market for USB and mains powered UMTS modems.

There are always problems with new technology but someone has to be first and I think Vodafone's pico cell move was a brave one which provided a solution for customers which others did not recognise and act to provide despite some who had far more reasons to do so (ie no GSM fallback).

[wilt]

Yes Vodafone were the first to invest in femtocells in the UK, however I fail to see how that means they spent 'additional money on proven hardware'. They may have spent 'additional money', or they may not have, but the hardware was not really proven.

While it's a minor annoyance that Three and o2 are taking extra time to trial their femtocells, it isn't fair to say they're intentionally depriving their customers of a solution for no reason.

[Daveoc64]

Originally Posted by wilt

Yes Vodafone were the first to invest in femtocells in the UK, however I fail to see how that means they spent 'additional money on proven hardware'. They may have spent 'additional money', or they may not have, but the hardware was not really proven.

While it's a minor annoyance that Three and o2 are taking extra time to trial their femtocells, it isn't fair to say they're intentionally depriving their customers of a solution for no reason.

Agreed. It DOES take a lot of work to roll out femtocells.

You have to consider a lot of issues - logistical, marketing, regulatory, financial etc.

You can't just start selling them.

[gold fire 201]

Originally Posted by Stiggles

I've got one coming tomorrow so shall let you know what its like

Stiggles which part of the uk do you live ?.As i am intrested to know which areas they are testing in.Also are you on a contract with a phone or sim only contract ?

[gold fire 201]

Just thought i would share this i tweeted 3 support yesterday and it looks promising.

@ThreeUK Hi any idea when three will let all customers purchase your femtocell product home signal ?

ThreeUK@Orion2010Uk More updates will follow soon.

9:49 AM - 27 Feb 12 via web · Details