[LDfan]

Hi

I know that this is a known issue (I've seen countless posts on various sites about this), but I've yet to come across an actual recent solution. (All the older threats seem to centre around firmware upgrades, factory resets, etc).

Anyway, the issue is that newer episodes of Family Guy and American Dad (both are on BBC3) keep jumping forwards by seconds or minutes during playback of recordings. Older episodes from the first few seasons seem fine.

I've not seen this happen on any other shows, either on BBC3 or on other channels.

I've heard that one possible factor is that FG and AD switched from 4:3 format to widescreen a few seasons in, but I can't imagine why this would cause the problem. There are obviously plenty of other widescreeen programs on which are fine.

I've written to Humax before, but only got the usual factory-reset, manual-tune, HDD-format, etc solutions - none of which worked. (Well, I didn't try the reformatting! Given that many others have this same problem, and the age of the episode has a bearing, I couldn't see how a reformat would work, & I didn't want to trash all my existing recordings.) After those ideas failed, they stopped talking to me!

Anyone got a recent answer/explanation/solution for this?

Thanks!

[Big-les]

I don't think anybody has got to the bottom of this one, the problems remains a mystery. I've recorded loads of Family Guy and some American Dad and all play without problem on my 9200 and 8000. I've also done some test recordings of Family Guy on my friend's 9300, again all playback without problem. Maybe it's those damn capacitors again.

[LDfan]

Wouldn't it be just like those spiteful capacitors to decide that they don't like newer episodes of Family Guy!

Yeah, I'd heard that this doesn't tend to happen on machines other that 9300's, and doesn't even happen on all 9300's. Weird though! I would really have thought that such a localised (1 or 2 shows) and specific (newer episodes) fault on a given model would be a relatively easy one for Humax to identify. But seemingly not...

It will be interesting to see if the 9300T that JL lent me (while my 9300T is being repaired) exhibits the same fault. Though, as usual, sod's law never takes a day off... BBC3 seem to be showing only older eps of FG just at the moment, so by the time they get back to the newer ones again, I'll probably have "my" machine back!!

[Martin Liddle]

Originally Posted by LDfan

I would really have thought that such a localised (1 or 2 shows) and specific (newer episodes) fault on a given model would be a relatively easy one for Humax to identify. But seemingly not...

I would speculate that the problem is an issue in the decoding hardware rather than software; a bit harder for Humax to come and fit new chips into every machine.

[LDfan]

Yeah, fair enough, but this problem seems to have been around for a long time, much longer than the age of my machine, so even if they won't retrofit older machines, I'm surprised that they've not fixed it with a different chipset in their later machines.

[tvlooker]

I have the same problem on 9150t. It seems to the only the
later series of family guy Every other program is recorded fine.

[Martin Liddle]

Originally Posted by LDfan

I'm surprised that they've not fixed it with a different chipset in their later machines.

Perhaps there is not a version of the particular chip set that will cure the problem.

[nvingo]

Originally Posted by Martin Liddle

Perhaps there is not a version of the particular chip set that will cure the problem.

So if all chips of that decoder series exhibit the symptom, surely it would be down to the BBC to ensure their data is compatible?

I tentatively suggest that maybe the programme producer has inserted some DRM that the BBC cannot (either technically or contractually) strip out.

[Martin Liddle]

Originally Posted by nvingo

So if all chips of that decoder series exhibit the symptom, surely it would be down to the BBC to ensure their data is compatible?

Yes that is what I would have expected. My guess is that there is something that is unusual in the data stream and there could be a difference of opinion as to whether it is compliant with the relevant standards; NB this is all conjecture on my part.

I tentatively suggest that maybe the programme producer has inserted some DRM that the BBC cannot (either technically or contractually) strip out.

That sounds very plausible to me.

[LDfan]

Hi! Can I just check one more thing. I'm no technical expert, so I can't comment on the unhandled DRM-content suggestion below, but would such a thing only affect playback but not live-watching? I'd have thought that if the BBC had problems had issues handling DRM, then this would apply equally to when watching the "live" broadcast as when watching a recording of it later. But as I say, I ain't no expert, so maybe they're different things. I'm just trying to get the facts straight in my mind before deciding where (if anywhere ) I can best take this next.
Cheers.

[EEPhil]

Originally Posted by Martin Liddle

My guess is that there is something that is unusual in the data stream and there could be a difference of opinion as to whether it is compliant with the relevant standards; NB this is all conjecture on my part.

This is my theory as well. However, other local contibutors seem to disagree. Whatever the problem, it was time it was sorted - or at least an official explanation given.
I am not sure about the chip set idea. I'm certain my 9150 didn't do this when I first bought it. Only after one of the updates. Also, before DSO had no problems with the MUX with BBC4, but did with the BBC2 one. Now it can occur on any BBC channel.

[nvingo]

Originally Posted by EEPhil

Also, before DSO had no problems with the MUX with BBC4, but did with the BBC2 one. Now it can occur on any BBC channel.

Since Post DSO all BBC channels are on the same mux.

[EEPhil]

Originally Posted by nvingo

Since Post DSO all BBC channels are on the same mux.

That was my point (although I phrased it very badly!)

[LDfan]

Sooo...... where does that leave us?

If it's the chipset, then why aren't certain Humax models affected? (I appreciate that different models over the years may have different chipsets (or not?), but this FG/AD issue has been going on for years, so I'd assume that Humax would change chips by now if so.)

If it's the BBC and/or DRM-content, then why doesn't it affect other manufacturers too? (Whilst the fact that it's just later series of these programmes which are affected points towards something like this, I've looked around and can't find any similar threads for other makes, at least not the hundreds that can be found for Humax? Surely such an issue would affect others? And why does it then only affect playback and not live viewing?)

If it was just the MUX, then presumably it would affect other shows/channels on that MUX too? (In my experience it doesn't.)

If it was just a post-DSO issue, then why just these 2 shows?

It can't be transmitter-related, as the problem seems plenty widespread enough to dismiss that.


I don't wanna drag this out for everyone, I'm sure we're all getting bored with this issue. But I agree with EEPhil that's well past the time when an official explanation was given.

But without having a clue as to the cause, I don't even know who to chase this up with! Humax? The BBC? Freeview? The programme-makers?

I fear that they will have stopped making these shows before we ever see a solution for this!

Cheers all !

[EEPhil]

Originally Posted by LDfan

Sooo...... where does that leave us?

If it was just the MUX, then presumably it would affect other shows/channels on that MUX too? (In my experience it doesn't.)

If it was just a post-DSO issue, then why just these 2 shows?

It hasn't been just these two shows. or just post-DSO. There have been other notable problems. Although, as I am often reminded, not everyone who has a Humax gets these problems even on the same transmitter.

I am aware of similar problems occurring with BBC Breakfast (BBC1), Andrew Marr (BBC1), "Page Eight" (BBC2?), "The Shadow Line" (BBC2?), Have I got a bit more news for you (but not HIGNFY itself). Most of these are examples from a year or more ago. Not had a recent problem with BBC Breakfast - and haven't recorded Andrew Marr recently.

Originally Posted by LDfan

But without having a clue as to the cause, I don't even know who to chase this up with! Humax? The BBC? Freeview? The programme-makers?

All of the above!

[Big-les]

Originally Posted by LDfan

.....
I don't wanna drag this out for everyone, I'm sure we're all getting bored with this issue. But I agree with EEPhil that's well past the time when an official explanation was given.
.....

I don't think you should feel bad about keeping this subject alive. My gut feeling is that Humax and/or the BBC have some idea of what's causing the problem and they should open up to us, even if it's just to say they can't fix it. OK it might lose Humax a few sales but they would go up in my estimation just for coming clean.

My friend is still recording the four consecutive FG/AD programmes on her v26 9300 to check out the consecutive recording problem from STANDBY. While I don't view every recording I do have a random view of the odd one, they all seem to be recording, and playing back, fine.

[LDfan]

Fair enough EEPhil, I hadn't come across the issue on other shows (how weird about the variance between HIGNFY and HIGABMNFY!).

And I'm envious of those 9300 owners without this problem - I've tried 2 of them (my own one, and a loaner 2 months ago while mine was off being repaired), and both of them displayed the problem straight away. Luck of the draw, I guess!

Thanks for the support Big-Les! I may give the dice one last roll with the BBC & Humax by emailing them both jointly, and beg an answer. I'll let you all know what they tell me. But don't put your lives on hold waiting for news of their reply - crack on with your other important stuff, like summer holidays, Christmas wrapping, etc!!

[LDfan]

One week since emailing BBC & Humax jointly. No reply from either of them yet. (Try to contain your shock.)

[LDfan]

I have an update for you all! Humax haven't replied yet, but the BBC have! They don't know the cause of this issue, but at least they admit that both they and Humax are aware of it. Here's an extract from their response:

Thank you for your enquiry and the difficulties you have received whilst recording episodes of the Family Guy or American Dad on BBC Three.
We initially set up a recorder to set up a test recording in order to reproduce the problems experienced by some viewer. The results from our MPEG-2 analyser all looked fine.
However,we found after subsequent tests we were able to reproduce it.
This is not a simple problem,as I am sure you can understand, so we are still investigating further with the manufacturer to see if anything in our broadcasts could be the cause. An initial look with an MPEG-2 analyser suggests the stream is fully compliant. We have also contacted Humax, who are aware of the problem, but are not sure at this stage what is causing it.
Hopefully, with further testing and with the support of Humax, we will be able to identify clearly the cause and work towards a resolution.

Not a solution, but I finally have a contact-point in the BBC to follow up with. Shall keep you posted!

[tvlooker]

Gr8 at last we have some progress with the problem Thanks

[Big-les]

Originally Posted by LDfan

I have an update for you all! Humax haven't replied yet, but the BBC have! They don't know the cause of this issue, but at least they admit that both they and Humax are aware of it.
.....

Good result, keep on it.

I can understand the difficulties Humax face as not all 9150/9300 machines show the problem, I've not yet seen it on my friend's 9300. If the BBC can reproduce the problem then that's got to help Humax pinpoint the cause, but will they fix it!!!

[Ondine]

I have the same problem but only with Points of View, BBC1 Sunday. All other programmes are fine. Strangely, the recording is fine until the letters come up on screen and then it starts jumping!

[EEPhil]

Originally Posted by Ondine

I have the same problem but only with Points of View, BBC1 Sunday. All other programmes are fine. Strangely, the recording is fine until the letters come up on screen and then it starts jumping!

Exactly the same problem I had.

Also, for the record, I've had this problem with one episode of "The Bridge" on BBC4 (Episode 9). I've recorded the repeat showing but have yet to watch it to see if the same problem occurs.

[abarthman]

Originally Posted by EEPhil

Also, for the record, I've had this problem with one episode of "The Bridge" on BBC4 (Episode 9). I've recorded the repeat showing but have yet to watch it to see if the same problem occurs.

I'm pleased to read this.

I just bought a 9150 last weekend and recorded the final two episodes (9 and 10) of The Bridge on Saturday night on BBC4.

Playing them back afterwards on Sunday, I noticed the playback jumping forward two or three times in both episodes -

Spoiler

annoyingly during the hospital scene with Saga and Martin and we were trying to figure out what had happened to August!

I wasn't sure whether it was a problem with the broadcast or the 9150.

I've watched a few other movie recordings since and haven't noticed any jumping.

Shame about the issue affecting Family Guy and American Dad. I love both these shows and can't always manage to stay awake long enough to watch them!

[EEPhil]

Originally Posted by abarthman

I'm pleased to read this.

I just bought a 9150 last weekend and recorded the final two episodes (9 and 10) of The Bridge on Saturday night on BBC4.

Playing them back afterwards on Sunday, I noticed the playback jumping forward two or three times in both episodes

Very strange! I didn't have a problem with episode 10 and the content of your spoiler. If you can be bothered you could try episode 10 again tonight and see if it happens in the same place.