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Old 06-09-2013, 17:17
Dare_Allan
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I watched Dredd last night and whatever you think of the film or comparing it to the new Robocop I think it does indicate that you need violence and a bit of gore in these types of films. It's an 18 for a reason and don't think it would have worked at all being a kids film.

But that's not the point.

Dredd (2012) is a better film than Dredd (1996), far superior in almost every way. It made $36m worldwide with an 18/R rating.

Total Recall (2012) is a worse film than Total Recall (1990), despite being closer to the original story, it is soul-less and lacks any humour. It made $198m worldwide with a 12A/PG13

Being "good" as a movie doesn't matter. Making money does. And hte problem is that today, a "Hard R" doesn't sell.
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Old 06-09-2013, 18:01
007Fusion
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And the problem is that today, a "Hard R" doesn't sell.
Why is that?

Surely adults want more heavy cinematic issues displayed on screen without restriction. So the market is there and they have more money than the kids to spend, who likely get it from their parents or part-time jobs - though the answer may lay in the willingness to spend. It just seems odd that there aren't more avaliable today.
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Old 06-09-2013, 18:07
Danger Close
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It's not that it doesn't sell. (the hard R/18)
It's just that the largest cinema going demographic fits into the under 16 category. So studios don't make their money on bigger budget productions in 15+ categories so have to go for the lowest rating possible with a 'happy medium'.
But they are wrong to do so in this case. The original story is a brutal one and should remain so.
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Old 06-09-2013, 19:49
Yuffie
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Why is that?

Surely adults want more heavy cinematic issues displayed on screen without restriction. So the market is there and they have more money than the kids to spend, who likely get it from their parents or part-time jobs - though the answer may lay in the willingness to spend. It just seems odd that there aren't more avaliable today.
Look at all the people in this thread whinging and moaning and saying they'll wait for Sky to see this. Apparently this is made for teens as is everything these days. So it's teens spending money at the cinemas these days. Why make a movie for adults when they can't be bothered to get off their asses and pay to watch it? They just wait for Sky to show it or for it to end up in a bargain bin. They don't deserve films made for them.
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:29
Dare_Allan
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Because the cinema audience in 2013 is biased. It is predimantly two segments - teenagers and dates. A teenager CANT see an 18 and requires an adult to see an R. And today it is enforced wheres 20 years ago it wasnt.

The date crowd doesn't want to see a lot of Hard R violence, you don't get your hole seeing a bullet make a hole.

Surely adults want more heavy cinematic issues displayed on screen without restriction. So the market is there and they have more money than the kids to spend, who likely get it from their parents or part-time jobs - though the answer may lay in the willingness to spend. It just seems odd that there aren't more avaliable today.
Its likely related to enforcement, I saw Total Recall (1990) when I was underage no-one asked me or the friends I was with. Today I don't think the same applies.

And adults very much DON'T make up the cinema audience, they watch movies at home.

And WORSE fanbois don't pay for movies AT ALL they download torrents and watch those. That's probably the biggest hit for the Hard R, you get the demand for it all over the internet, you make it, you put it out there and the people who asked for it watch it for free.

This is the nub of the problem, PG-13/12A sells, Hard R/18 doesnt. It's a very defined problem with the movie classification industry. It probably SHOULD be changed because, for example, Verhoeven's Robocop is a very anti-violence film. Its a film that should be part of school curricula.

Of course on the other hand, verhoeven's Starship Troopers is a very violent film but its violent for laughs, this makes it harder for the argument that cinema ratings for violence are broken. Even if the entire film was cartoon violence.

edit - btw just realised i was 18 when Total Recall (1990) came out but three of the five friends I was with weren't).
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:54
TheParanoidGoat
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The trailer gets a big fat meh from me ...

Robocop looks better in the grey/metallic suit. Did in the original, did in the trailer for this one.

But the thing that made Robocop such a good film was ultimately a revenge film, one of the best examples of one. And its starting point came from such a brutal murder, at the hands of some of the most vile villains ever, especially Clarence Boedecker.

So Alex Murphy doesn't even die in the new one. It didn't have to be as brutal and graphic as the original, but it should have happened. What a PG-13 cop out.
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:57
theonlyweeman
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Why is that?

Surely adults want more heavy cinematic issues displayed on screen without restriction. So the market is there and they have more money than the kids to spend, who likely get it from their parents or part-time jobs - though the answer may lay in the willingness to spend. It just seems odd that there aren't more avaliable today.
Plenty of R rated films are being released, but outside of comedy, the market isn't there, According to Box Office Mojo 49.6% of films released in 2012 were rated R, but they accounted for only 27.2% of gross. Whereas 32.6% of 2012 films were rated PG-13 but they accounted for 51.6% of gross.

Looking at worldwide gross for the last year, the highest R rated film was Ted (charting 13), then The Intouchables (charting 16), the first non-comedy appears at no. 17 with Django Unchained. With Prometheus at no. 18. The next R rated film is The Expendables 2 at no. 28.

If Quentin Tarantino and Ridley Scott can't get two critically acclaimed films into the top 10 (one of which is a sequel to one of the most loved films of all time). What hope do studios have?
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Old 06-09-2013, 22:20
Pob-Bundy
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Look at all the people in this thread whinging and moaning and saying they'll wait for Sky to see this. Apparently this is made for teens as is everything these days. So it's teens spending money at the cinemas these days. Why make a movie for adults when they can't be bothered to get off their asses and pay to watch it? They just wait for Sky to show it or for it to end up in a bargain bin. They don't deserve films made for them.

That's just an excuse I'm afraid, the simple reason is that remakes or reimaginings are simpler and safer to produce for studios. This attitude from studios is actually sort of biting the hand that feeds of an existing audience. So the result will be disapointment and rightly so if important elements that created something original in the first place are omitted. In the case of RoboCop, as already stated it was made up as a revenge story that was both humourous and bleak at the same time. Take that away and what have you got left? You say only younger people will pay for seats, well they should therefore have something completely new and original for their generation. Bottom line is if more original movies were made with broader ratings then I think anyone of any age would get to the cinema more often. We need more variety plain and simple.
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Old 06-09-2013, 22:48
Jonwo
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Plenty of R rated films are being released, but outside of comedy, the market isn't there, According to Box Office Mojo 49.6% of films released in 2012 were rated R, but they accounted for only 27.2% of gross. Whereas 32.6% of 2012 films were rated PG-13 but they accounted for 51.6% of gross.

Looking at worldwide gross for the last year, the highest R rated film was Ted (charting 13), then The Intouchables (charting 16), the first non-comedy appears at no. 17 with Django Unchained. With Prometheus at no. 18. The next R rated film is The Expendables 2 at no. 28.

If Quentin Tarantino and Ridley Scott can't get two critically acclaimed films into the top 10 (one of which is a sequel to one of the most loved films of all time). What hope do studios have?
It did annoy me that A Good Day to Die Hard and Taken 2 were 12A and I think both films should have been 15, Die Hard was R in America but was cut here to make it a 12A.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was probably the last successful 18 rated film, its only really horror that gets the 18 certificate and even then most horror films are 15 rated
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Old 06-09-2013, 23:17
theonlyweeman
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It did annoy me that A Good Day to Die Hard and Taken 2 were 12A and I think both films should have been 15, Die Hard was R in America but was cut here to make it a 12A.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was probably the last successful 18 rated film, its only really horror that gets the 18 certificate and even then most horror films are 15 rated
I think Django Unchained should be considered, having grossed around 4 times it's $100m production budget.

Drive was also successful, but was fairly cheap, so probably shouldn't count.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:09
Ted Cunterblast
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Watched the trailer again...kind of in two minds about it.

On the downside, it looks like they have stripped down the bare elements of the original and gone for a generic action movie with a few nods for the fanboys.

I don't even mind the notion of the lack of satire present in the original, that was very much a thing of it's time and difficult to recreate in todays climate.

On the other hand the trailer is very brief and maybe there is more to it...though the dialogue scenes and the bits with Keaton, Jackson and Oldman do come across as quite generic mad scientist/greedy corporate type clichés, hardly original. Which is why I believe the plot and supporting cast may just be an excuse to hang a bunch of set pieces of mayhem and destruction.

But maybe there is more to it..a few brief scenes of Murphy with his family, there could be more there. We don't get much of a sense of Kinnaman's performance from the trailer.

I also believe think that the silver suit will return at the end of the movie, I can see it as Murphy resisting against the notion of turning him into a sleek, black rubber suited automaton and regaining some sense of identity, and considering the original suit as his own.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:54
RebelScum
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Watched the trailer again...kind of in two minds about it.

On the downside, it looks like they have stripped down the bare elements of the original and gone for a generic action movie with a few nods for the fanboys.

I don't even mind the notion of the lack of satire present in the original, that was very much a thing of it's time and difficult to recreate in todays climate.
Not that I think this one will have the satire of the original, but we can't rule out some satire/humour; interestingly there was no hint of it in the trailer for the original. Considering the music they used in that trailer, it actually hinted at a fairly humourless movie.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3W5HUz7vyY
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:24
grimtales1
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Why'd they use the Terminator music? I think they were selling it as being similar to that film The central idea (man or machine) is similar I guess
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:37
Ted Cunterblast
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Not that I think this one will have the satire of the original, but we can't rule out some satire/humour; interestingly there was no hint of it in the trailer for the original. Considering the music they used in that trailer, it actually hinted at a fairly humourless movie.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3W5HUz7vyY

It's standard for the humour to be played down in such trailers for big movies like that I guess...the original had a reputation for violence and so I suppose they want to give the impression there will be more of the same.

Thankfully the satirical humour in the original was welcome if unexpected on first viewing.

Interesting they use the Terminator theme for that trailer, I guess to draw comparison with that movie was favourable, and the themes are kind of similar.

And I guess you could also say that the 80's was also a time when there was a proliferation of buddy-buddy cop type movies, and generic action movies which introduced more humour into these genres than we had previously seen, so the interjection of more comedy in the Terminator and Robocop movies increased as the series went on.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:59
Paddy C
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The reason why they used Terminator music for the 1987 RoboCop's trailer is because Orion made both films and the score wasn't finished in time for when the trailer was being made so they cheated and put it in instead.

And of course, there is no trace of dark humour or satire in the original trailer and there isn't any in the new one either. But Jose Padhila has said that the new film does contain both.

Also, the trailer is not as it seems. I'm pretty sure some of the scenes and dialogue don't actually match and have been put that way to throw people off. Padhila and the cast have said this is not the kind of movie people will be expecting. The scenes of him fighting other robots is from his training which is near the start of the film. There has been no mention in the trailer of the villains of the film or his partner, the (now male) Lewis.
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Old 07-09-2013, 13:24
Johnny Clay
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Bottom line is if more original movies were made with broader ratings then I think anyone of any age would get to the cinema more often. We need more variety plain and simple.
There's enough variety/originality out there if you look hard enough. The problem lies with distribution.
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Old 07-09-2013, 13:48
Pob-Bundy
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There's enough variety/originality out there if you look hard enough. The problem lies with distribution.
No doubt about that, hence why many will hardly go to a mainstream cinema. I suppose it's easy to forget that films made in the 80's also had the novelty of video tape to fall back on to gather it's audience more slowly if it failed to gather a large following initially in the cinema. But it still had that chance in the cinema in the first place. We do have much more at our disposal now so it's easy to miss so much unless you delve deep. But as far as a genuine fully rounded cinema experience goes, it did seem that many types of films use to at least get given a chance. The remake machine is getting faster each year when it used to be a rarity. Also not just a rarity but radically different and more extreme (The Thing or The Fly). They're going the opposite way now like with RoboCop, too safe. I'm waiting to see if this Oldboy remake replaces the octopus eating scene with just a hotdog or a twinkie!
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Old 21-09-2013, 22:06
-GONZO-
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First reaction to Robocop remake.
Spoiler

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=87365
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Old 05-11-2013, 00:04
Paddy C
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2nd trailer due on 7th November. Wonder what we will see this time. It's longer than the first one too.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:49
whedon247
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saw trailer for this before thor 2, it looked good but nothing spectacular,who is the main actor?

glad they kept the villain machine from robocop 1, that was cool.
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Old 06-11-2013, 00:26
Paddy C
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Joel Kinneman, he is in the TV show The Killing.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:06
JCR
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That trailer was given a 15 rating by the bbfc, I'm guessing the film may also be 15, in spite of the PG-13, and the fact the bbfc are stricter on trails than features.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:04
Paddy C
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15 seconds of the new trailer have been released ahead of it's debut tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrXNltxBxOI
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Old 07-11-2013, 16:03
Paddy C
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And here is Trailer #2 in full, it is actually a better trailer than the first one I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPLSpmAtc1Q
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Old 07-11-2013, 16:57
dmuk
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Yeah, quite looking forward to it, even if I know it won't be as good as the original.
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