Nice to see Bilbao getting a consolation goal.
The European and World Football Thread
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Pele and Maradona must of been pretty amazing considering Messi performs at a ridiculous level season after season week after week and influences big games time and time again. I find it unthinkable that there were players playing at the same level.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I think I will genuinely cry when Messi retires, as he is such a special talent that we will not see his ilk ever again.
I am just blessed to say that I lived through his era, and have personally seen him live in the flesh and scoring at the Camp Nou.”
“I think I will genuinely cry when Messi retires, as he is such a special talent that we will not see his ilk ever again.
I am just blessed to say that I lived through his era, and have personally seen him live in the flesh and scoring at the Camp Nou.”
People said that about Tiger Woods and now we have Rory McIlroy (who many think at his peak is actually better than what Woods was).
People said that about Sampras and now we have Federer.
People said that about Michael Johnson and now we have Usain Bolt.
Sport evolves and does improve, people always think what they're witnessing will be the greatest ever, until the next 10 years.
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“People said that about Tiger Woods and now we have Rory McIlroy (who many think at his peak is actually better than what Woods was).
People said that about Sampras and now we have Federer.
People said that about Michael Johnson and now we have Usain Bolt.
Sport evolves and does improve, people always think what they're witnessing will be the greatest ever, until the next 10 years.”
“People said that about Tiger Woods and now we have Rory McIlroy (who many think at his peak is actually better than what Woods was).
People said that about Sampras and now we have Federer.
People said that about Michael Johnson and now we have Usain Bolt.
Sport evolves and does improve, people always think what they're witnessing will be the greatest ever, until the next 10 years.”
Wow, to be better than Messi, well I await that day, as that must mean we would be watching a superior being.
I get what you mean, but right now, it would be hard to believe that there could be anyone up with Messi in the future.
Xavi and Inestia lifting the trophy, that was nice to see and just somehow seems fitting on this day for Barcelona as they were such an awesome pairing together.
You have to wonder where the hell this Messi was during WC 2014. Yes he scored some nice goals against the mighty Iran Bosnia and Nigeria (Argentina did have the easiest group), but in the later stages of the tournament he stunk. He looks totally unrecognisable from his WC final performances, I remember watching that semi against Holland and it must have been the worst match I've probably seen him play. In the final he was terrible too.
He's stepping up for the big games this year, he didn't last year, and I don't know why that was.
I know people say he doesn't need to win a WC to confirm his greatness but with Argentina on a rare occasion sorting their defence out (the ones who effectively got Argentina to the final) you feel that was a massive opportunity missed.
You look at these performances against City/Bayern Munich/Bilbao and wonder where on earth was he in the WC final?
He's stepping up for the big games this year, he didn't last year, and I don't know why that was.
I know people say he doesn't need to win a WC to confirm his greatness but with Argentina on a rare occasion sorting their defence out (the ones who effectively got Argentina to the final) you feel that was a massive opportunity missed.
You look at these performances against City/Bayern Munich/Bilbao and wonder where on earth was he in the WC final?
I can only think that there must have been a fitness issue last year because that season was a blip in the progression of his career. If he was firing, Di Maria didn't get injured and Aguero was fit, Argentina would have been massive favourites for that final. That's without Tevez in the squad too.
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“People said that about Tiger Woods and now we have Rory McIlroy (who many think at his peak is actually better than what Woods was).”
“People said that about Tiger Woods and now we have Rory McIlroy (who many think at his peak is actually better than what Woods was).”
You're pushing it a bit with that one.
"The gap between the best player in the world and the 2nd best is much, much larger than the gap between the 2nd best player & the 3rd best"
- pretty much sums it up for me
- pretty much sums it up for me
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“You have to wonder where the hell this Messi was during WC 2014. Yes he scored some nice goals against the mighty Iran Bosnia and Nigeria (Argentina did have the easiest group), but in the later stages of the tournament he stunk. He looks totally unrecognisable from his WC final performances, I remember watching that semi against Holland and it must have been the worst match I've probably seen him play. In the final he was terrible too.
He's stepping up for the big games this year, he didn't last year, and I don't know why that was.
I know people say he doesn't need to win a WC to confirm his greatness but with Argentina on a rare occasion sorting their defence out (the ones who effectively got Argentina to the final) you feel that was a massive opportunity missed.
You look at these performances against City/Bayern Munich/Bilbao and wonder where on earth was he in the WC final?”
“You have to wonder where the hell this Messi was during WC 2014. Yes he scored some nice goals against the mighty Iran Bosnia and Nigeria (Argentina did have the easiest group), but in the later stages of the tournament he stunk. He looks totally unrecognisable from his WC final performances, I remember watching that semi against Holland and it must have been the worst match I've probably seen him play. In the final he was terrible too.
He's stepping up for the big games this year, he didn't last year, and I don't know why that was.
I know people say he doesn't need to win a WC to confirm his greatness but with Argentina on a rare occasion sorting their defence out (the ones who effectively got Argentina to the final) you feel that was a massive opportunity missed.
You look at these performances against City/Bayern Munich/Bilbao and wonder where on earth was he in the WC final?”
Firstly Messi is a lot fitter this year. While he wasn't overweight his dropped about 7 pounds.
Secondly his role for Argentina was different. He did what he needed to do for the benefit of the team. In the final he was across so many lines it was ridiculous.
"goals don't mean anything if they don't win you titles "
I think that's a great quote from Messi. Sums up a player who while gets so many plaudits his still all about the team.
Originally Posted by Pee:
“"The gap between the best player in the world and the 2nd best is much, much larger than the gap between the 2nd best player & the 3rd best"
- pretty much sums it up for me”
“"The gap between the best player in the world and the 2nd best is much, much larger than the gap between the 2nd best player & the 3rd best"
- pretty much sums it up for me”
Is that really true though? Who's nipping at Ronaldo's heels for the number two spot?
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“Is that really true though? Who's nipping at Ronaldo's heels for the number two spot?”
“Is that really true though? Who's nipping at Ronaldo's heels for the number two spot?”
Neuer or Lahm for me.
Originally Posted by Grim Fandango:
“You're pushing it a bit with that one.”
“You're pushing it a bit with that one.”
Let me just clear that statement up. I said "many people think" not what "I" think.
Colin Montgomerie and many European certainly pundits think so - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/gol...ntgomerie.html
'Tiger Woods is going to come back into the frame,' Mongomerie told Kicca.com when discussing next year's Masters. 'Is he going to be able to get back, not just to the levels he was but better than that? Because that’s where Rory McIlroy's taken the standard of golf: to one level beyond where Tiger was.'
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“
I get what you mean, but right now, it would be hard to believe that there could be anyone up with Messi in the future.”
“
I get what you mean, but right now, it would be hard to believe that there could be anyone up with Messi in the future.”
Even though, at present, you currently have Cristiano Ronaldo rivaling him?
The more the game grows, the more talented prospects there will be. I can imagine a time when there will be five Messi' contesting 'The World Player of the Year' title.
Originally Posted by Pee:
“"The gap between the best player in the world and the 2nd best is much, much larger than the gap between the 2nd best player & the 3rd best"
- pretty much sums it up for me”
“"The gap between the best player in the world and the 2nd best is much, much larger than the gap between the 2nd best player & the 3rd best"
- pretty much sums it up for me”
But Ronaldo is the current reigning best player in the world. He and Messi have been passing the Ballon d'Or between each other for the past few years depending on who wins more titles the previous season. No one else even stands a chance. Neither Lahm in 2015 nor Ribery in 2014 even came close. Neymar, Suarez, Sanchez - neither of them stands a chance at the prize whilst Messi and Ronaldo pass it to each other.
Saw the first half - Barca were simply all over Bilbo and could have been 2/3 more goals up.
Guess they eased off a bit in the 2nd.
Amazing from Messi but then you aren't surprised!
Guess they eased off a bit in the 2nd.
Amazing from Messi but then you aren't surprised!
beyond their respective goal stats, Messi and Ronaldo really aren't that comparable. put those aside, and one is clearly much superior to the other.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.
Originally Posted by Pee:
“beyond their respective goal stats, Messi and Ronaldo really aren't that comparable. put those aside, and one is clearly much superior to the other.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.”
“beyond their respective goal stats, Messi and Ronaldo really aren't that comparable. put those aside, and one is clearly much superior to the other.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.”
It's the Barca fan in you speaking
Ronaldo is an absolutely complete footballer. There is nothing he can't do. Messi was not the best player in the world last season or the season before. The gap between Messi and Ronaldo is not at all wide.P.S. I'm a fan of neither, but I give credit where credit is due
you're just speaking in broad-strokes without anything to support your claim except Ballon D'Or voting. in what way can Ronaldo be described as complete? I'm guessing you're referring to whole "left foot, right foot, head, inside and outside the area, free-kicks and penalties" definition of completeness, but these still all just refer to the different ways he can score rather than being evidence of his completeness as a player.
Originally Posted by Pee:
“beyond their respective goal stats, Messi and Ronaldo really aren't that comparable. put those aside, and one is clearly much superior to the other.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.”
“beyond their respective goal stats, Messi and Ronaldo really aren't that comparable. put those aside, and one is clearly much superior to the other.
Ronaldo is an incredible goal-machine, but he puts pretty much ALL his effort and energy into trying to score goals. I know he has a number of assists this season too, but those tend to involve him getting on the end of swarming team attacks than being genuinely creative for the rest of the team. when he isn't scoring, his impact on games don't come anywhere NEAR that of Messi's. Messi is also a goal-machine with a very similar goal-tally, and yet spends about as much time being the main creator for his team as he does being the main scorer. he's basically Xavi, Iniesta, and himself all in one at this point.
This current Messi is on a completely different level to everyone else right now, Ronaldo included. the rest are considerably closer to him than he is to Messi. Neymar has 38 goals in 50 games this season, despite the fact he isn't his team's best player, doesn't take anywhere NEAR the number of shots per game that Ronaldo does, and (bar the odd exception) doesn't take penalties or free-kicks. He also doesn't get the same luxury of running up the score at 4/5/6/7-0 either. Now I'm not saying Neymar is on Ronaldo's level, but it's easier to replicate impressive goal scoring numbers than it is to do the things Messi is doing every single game in addition to scoring.”
I completely disagree. Both Messi and Ronaldo are on a completely different planet and have taken the game to a different level. If Messi didn't exist we would be saying what we are saying about him about Ronaldo. Ronaldo can score every type of goal, he can head the ball, he has won trophies in different countries, he has done it all. Its not easier to replicate what he is doing at all. Scoring 50 goals a season isn't normal.
They are doing stuff that others aren't and I suspect they are spurring each other on to better and better things, its amazing to watch and there is a major drop-off between these two and the rest.
I completely fail to understand why being in awe of Messi has to be done by knocking Ronaldo or vice versa depending on which team people supports or who is their favourite. Its all very Super Nintendo vs Sega Megadrive from back in the playground.
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“Let me just clear that statement up. I said "many people think" not what "I" think.”
“Let me just clear that statement up. I said "many people think" not what "I" think.”
Ah, I assumed that you agreed, given that you were using the example to back up your point.
I didn't knock Ronaldo at all. in fact, I believe I even referred to him as incredible. he's just not Messi, is all.
people are being blinded by the ridiculous numbers. watch both players for 90 minutes twice a week, and it's as clear as day - to me at least - that one is that much better than the other.
people are being blinded by the ridiculous numbers. watch both players for 90 minutes twice a week, and it's as clear as day - to me at least - that one is that much better than the other.
They've always struck me as very different players, with different strengths and weaknesses (admittedly both have very few of the latter).
It's a real pleasure to have lived through this era. People will be talking about these two in half a century.
I have no doubt that there will be other great players, but there will surely be very few that reach the heights of these two and consistently perform at such a high level for so many years.
It's a real pleasure to have lived through this era. People will be talking about these two in half a century.
I have no doubt that there will be other great players, but there will surely be very few that reach the heights of these two and consistently perform at such a high level for so many years.
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