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The European and World Football Thread |
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#1526 |
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Join Date: May 2016
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Fair do's mate.
The conversation at that point was about Ronaldo and Real Madrid in general and not about Messi performance this season. |
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#1527 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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I'm not a Man Utd fan for the record but I shouldn't have to justify that to talk about Spanish football.
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#1528 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,348
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You're one of the most touchy of the lot.
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#1529 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 767
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I reacted the way I did as it's a shame to see every Barcelona achievement linked in some way to overshadowing Ronaldo rather than just being a stand alone achievement. No mention of messi's much decreased return this season? No, thought not.
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#1530 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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Messi's team won the league. For the eighth time.
Plus all what the poster above said too, which actually makes my point for me. Messi is still clearly the best player in the world, never mind just at Barca, and could probably still have scored 50+ goals if he really went for it, but he's smart enough to know it's not necessarily in the team's best interest to do so. So if you're actually watching games as opposed to just going on goal tallies, it should be obvious that his "much decreased return" isn't in the slightest bit an issue. |
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#1531 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Messi got 24 goals and 16 assists having missed 2 months. He also gave Suarez and Neymar the opportunity to take probably 10+ penalties, had he played all season and taken the penalties as well he'd probably have about 40 goals as well. What I've seen from Messi this year and since Jan last year, is that his ego is less with Neymar and Suarez around, he's more happy to share the goals. When he had the likes of Pedro, Sanchez and Villa around him, he was a bit greedy to be honest. This may be the new Messi, the one who drops deep and threads defence splitting passes more so than before.
I think his always been about the team first. I remember Mourinho making mention in the world Cup and how Messi was sacrificing his own game for the benefit of the Argentinian side. Personal accolades are all good but players want to end careers with titles. I won't say Ronaldo is all about him and doesn't care if Madrid don't win titles as I don't think any player is like that. However his goal hungry (not a bad thing),. He lives to score goals. That desire to keep scoring as many as possible hasn't decreased one iota. The only player who comes close to that hunger for goals in Suarez. |
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#1532 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I've always said I consider Messi's 72/91-goal season/year was probably his worst, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it was also one of the team's worst years trophy-wise. to date, it's the only time I've seen him seeming to chase goals and records, and while it was fun seeing what he could achieve when he really put his mind to it, the team suffered as a result. I'll take this decreased-returning Messi any day of the week.
with Suarez, I think it's even more of a hunger to win than just scoring goals. his work-rate and desire are just incredible. never stops getting into goalscoring positions, making runs to create opening for either himself or a team-mate, closing down the opposition, basically whatever it takes to try and influence a game, no matter how well or terribly he himself is playing. |
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#1533 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 30,269
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Quote:
I've always said I consider Messi's 72/91-goal season/year was probably his worst, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it was also one of the team's worst years trophy-wise. to date, it's the only time I've seen him seeming to chase goals and records, and while it was fun seeing what he could achieve when he really put his mind to it, the team suffered as a result. I'll take this decreased-returning Messi any day of the week.
with Suarez, I think it's even more of a hunger to win than just scoring goals. his work-rate and desire are just incredible. never stops getting into goalscoring positions, making runs to create opening for either himself or a team-mate, closing down the opposition, basically whatever it takes to try and influence a game, no matter how well or terribly he himself is playing. |
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#1534 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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are you not just making my point for me then? he could quite easily score a lot more goals if he decided to try and Enrique allowed him to (maybe even if Enrique objected too). but both parties are able to recognise that it isn't necessarily in the team's interest to do so.
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#1535 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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My initial comments on this subject were not meant to be in any way a dig at either Messi or Barcelona. I think Messi is possibly the best player ever to play the game and his goals and general play back that up, as do the trophies he has won.
My issue was the constant back biting that goes on whenever Barcelona "fans" on the internet talk about Barcelona. Its never just a celebration of their achievement, there always has to be some form of dig at Ronaldo thrown in for reasons unknown. Suarez has a season that makes him the first viable alternative to the big two for the world footballer of the Year and instead of just being happy with that it has to come with trying to downplay any achievement Ronaldo has had. My point about Messi's reduced goal tally wasn't me having a go at him either just pointing out that it wouldn't get a mention. Perhaps if Real Madrid had a Suarez and Neymar to play alongside Ronaldo there wouldn't be the same focus on him. There are only so many goals a club can score - Suarez scores more means Messi scores less. If Real are looking at their options and they don't feel that Benzema or whomever can cover the shortfall if Ronaldo's role was altered then there isn't much point in altering it. Nevertheless that wasn't what I was saying anyway. I suppose its just an attempt to create a rivalry from afar and be seen to join in. |
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#1536 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,059
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Antonio di Natale finally retires. Love the guy and wish him well in his retirement. Hope he goes into coaching.
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#1537 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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Quote:
My initial comments on this subject were not meant to be in any way a dig at either Messi or Barcelona. I think Messi is possibly the best player ever to play the game and his goals and general play back that up, as do the trophies he has won.
My issue was the constant back biting that goes on whenever Barcelona "fans" on the internet talk about Barcelona. Its never just a celebration of their achievement, there always has to be some form of dig at Ronaldo thrown in for reasons unknown. Suarez has a season that makes him the first viable alternative to the big two for the world footballer of the Year and instead of just being happy with that it has to come with trying to downplay any achievement Ronaldo has had. My point about Messi's reduced goal tally wasn't me having a go at him either just pointing out that it wouldn't get a mention. Perhaps if Real Madrid had a Suarez and Neymar to play alongside Ronaldo there wouldn't be the same focus on him. There are only so many goals a club can score - Suarez scores more means Messi scores less. If Real are looking at their options and they don't feel that Benzema or whomever can cover the shortfall if Ronaldo's role was altered then there isn't much point in altering it. Nevertheless that wasn't what I was saying anyway. I suppose its just an attempt to create a rivalry from afar and be seen to join in. it really wasn't that serious, but then the name Ronaldo is a dog-whistle for some on here that just can't wait to get all bent out of shape, it seems. |
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#1538 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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Quote:
yeah it must be that...
it really wasn't that serious, but then the name Ronaldo is a dog-whistle for some on here that just can't wait to get all bent out of shape, it seems. |
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#1539 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,402
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No Costa or mata in the spain squad
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#1540 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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Quote:
No Costa or mata in the spain squad
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#1541 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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As is the opportunity for some to get the dig in, in the first place it seems. So much so that they get their facts wrong in their eagerness to do so.
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#1542 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,844
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Diego Costa really made a cracking decision to switch from Brazil to Spain.
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#1543 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,402
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Not sure if that's a shock or not, not had the best of seasons I guess.
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#1544 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,402
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Diego Costa really made a cracking decision to switch from Brazil to Spain.
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#1545 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,844
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Spain have also left out Alcacer who was their top scorer in qualifying and gone with Nolito who's yet to score for them and 35-year old Aduriz. I don't follow La Liga closely enough to know, is that a sensible selection?
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#1546 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,348
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Spain have also left out Alcacer who was their top scorer in qualifying and gone with Nolito who's yet to score for them and 35-year old Aduriz. I don't follow La Liga closely enough to know, is that a sensible selection?
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#1547 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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Aduriz has had a blinding season, and it took ages for Del Bosque to call him up when it should have been done ages ago. Nolito gives a bit of unpredictability that Spain otherwise don't really have. on his day, he can really pull good teams apart.
Alcacer hasn't been very good this season, so good to see Del Bosque finally picking on form rather than sticking with names regardless. |
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#1548 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 767
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Quote:
Aduriz has had a blinding season, and it took ages for Del Bosque to call him up when it should have been done ages ago. Nolito gives a bit of unpredictability that Spain otherwise don't really have. on his day, he can really pull good teams apart.
Alcacer hasn't been very good this season, so good to see Del Bosque finally picking on form rather than sticking with names regardless. |
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#1549 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 767
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Quote:
They've also got Vasquez of Madrid in there who's yet to be capped. When I first saw the selection I immediately thought it looked weak but will admit to not really knowing enough to properly comment.
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#1550 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,844
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Two players to be cut yet I think.
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