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Madonna trying too hard to be youthful |
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#101 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Madonna is just being Madonna regardless of her age, she isn't trying to be young, she is just being herself. It's just the haters and prudes who have a problem with it, what the hell is this ageing gracefully and with dignity crap. People are different so why should they conform to what some perceive as the 'norm'.
Go Madonna! growing old with grace and dignity means that you can portray your sex appeal without resorting to nakedness, we know whats beneath the clothing, we dont need to see it, looking someone in the eye with that mutual knowlege is far sexier then having her reveal everything. thats not prudish, its maturity. |
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#102 |
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the point is that adults, people of my and madonnas age group dont need to display or need to see/show gussets to get sex appeal. we KNOW what a human body is like, we arent immature schoolkids getting their kicks off seeing as much flesh as we can...we know what the female body is like.
growing old with grace and dignity means that you can portray your sex appeal without resorting to nakedness, we know whats beneath the clothing, we dont need to see it, looking someone in the eye with that mutual knowlege is far sexier then having her reveal everything. thats not prudish, its maturity. let us know what the real mushymanrob is like ![]() Its not "immature" to reveal yourself if you can do it..do it...no need to be so insecure ![]() so yeah...mushyman...wear panties
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#103 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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oh dear, someone has been looking at too many articles on the daily mail.
`The tabloids complain about [Madonna] looking old, and people laugh at her for that. Then Madonna goes and fixes her face, and they laugh at her for that. Even thought they begrudgingly say she looks amazing, they’ll still laugh at her for trying to look young. Then she steps out, looking amazing, and the tabloids go and blow up a picture of her aging hand. Nobody’s doing that to George Clooney, blowing up pictures of his hands! I look at these magazines, and I want to say to them, What’s your point? That she’s aged? Does that surprise you? Or is your ‘point’ an attempt to undercut what she’s achieved? I think it is, even if it’s on a subconscious level. And you probably wouldn’t turn down those hands if they were grabbing you under the table, you f**king idiots.` she has a valid point and i couldn't have put it better myself. Yes , The Queen Of Bunged Up is still the 'Empress/ Grand Dowager' blah-blah-blah - of pop. Let her have the crown, shes more than worked hard for it. No-one could deny her brutal work ethic she imposes on herself. The fact is, she has conformed to the medias pressure of trying to stay youthful. So , Madonna gives in to the Murdoch controlled medias view of the world...Well.... AINT LIFE A BITCH!?! Poor old Madge portrays an image of a woman in control, yet at home, like any other woman, shes constrained by the worlds perception of how she should look when she glimpses sags in that generous three way mirror in her sumptous boudoir... I might also add, that this perception of how a woman should look is mainly perpetrated by WOMEN themselves, with a generous topping of misogynistic gay fashion designers more than willing to send a woman up on the catwalk (oops! Sorry! I mean those designers are "Edgy/ pushing the envelope"). Madonnas made lots of gr8 records, I've got 'em! Shes also an incredible cutural icon. But she could be sooo much richer in her body of work, if she let go of 'youth' & artistically, started exploring other areas. Fans trying to pigeonhole her to her sexuality/dance roots are actually BOXING HER IN. The womans had years of absorbing art from around the world. Now, lets see the fruits from all her wordly experiences, because as a rich powerful woman, shes probably been privay to more aspects of life than you or I will ever see. If she continues in the same 'hey kids, Im one of you'/ i wear a basque so i'm relevant vein, its just, tired. |
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#104 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 27,919
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Btwn you & i, when Shirley Manson makes another decent record, then i'll read/listen to what she says... She hasnt made a decent record since Garbages debut....
Yes , The Queen Of Bunged Up is still the 'Empress/ Grand Dowager' blah-blah-blah - of pop. Let her have the crown, shes more than worked hard for it. No-one could deny her brutal work ethic she imposes on herself. The fact is, she has conformed to the medias pressure of trying to stay youthful. So , Madonna gives in to the Murdoch controlled medias view of the world...Well.... AINT LIFE A BITCH!?! Poor old Madge portrays an image of a woman in control, yet at home, like any other woman, shes constrained by the worlds perception of how she should look when she glimpses sags in that generous three way mirror in her sumptous boudoir... I might also add, that this perception of how a woman should look is mainly perpetrated by WOMEN themselves, with a generous topping of misogynistic gay fashion designers more than willing to send a woman up on the catwalk (oops! Sorry! I mean those designers are "Edgy/ pushing the envelope"). Madonnas made lots of gr8 records, I've got 'em! Shes also an incredible cutural icon. But she could be sooo much richer in her body of work, if she let go of 'youth' & artistically, started exploring other areas. Fans trying to pigeonhole her to her sexuality/dance roots are actually BOXING HER IN. The womans had years of absorbing art from around the world. Now, lets see the fruits from all her wordly experiences, because as a rich powerful woman, shes probably been privay to more aspects of life than you or I will ever see. If she continues in the same 'hey kids, Im one of you'/ i wear a basque so i'm relevant vein, its just, tired. I don't want Madonna to STOP being Madonna but I would like her to be more creative with her music. It's a telling sign that in the UK it seems her more "refined" song Masterpiece is likely to be a much more successful single than her official singles. So much so Polydor (responsible for her single releases) are likely to release it as a UK only single due to popular demand! There has to be an element of the public WANTING her gracefully to be Madonna rather than be sexually madonna. But that said, I think GGW is just Madonna having fun. I am highly anticipating MDNA as it is rumoured to be full of varied and "grown up" tracks. As long as she continues making creative, relevant music then that's fine for me. I don't want her to copy others. She doesn't need to. |
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#105 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,436
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the point is that adults, people of my and madonnas age group dont need to display or need to see/show gussets to get sex appeal. we KNOW what a human body is like, we arent immature schoolkids getting their kicks off seeing as much flesh as we can...we know what the female body is like.
growing old with grace and dignity means that you can portray your sex appeal without resorting to nakedness, we know whats beneath the clothing, we dont need to see it, looking someone in the eye with that mutual knowlege is far sexier then having her reveal everything. thats not prudish, its maturity. |
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#106 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,436
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Btwn you & i, when Shirley Manson makes another decent record, then i'll read/listen to what she says... She hasnt made a decent record since Garbages debut....
Yes , The Queen Of Bunged Up is still the 'Empress/ Grand Dowager' blah-blah-blah - of pop. Let her have the crown, shes more than worked hard for it. No-one could deny her brutal work ethic she imposes on herself. The fact is, she has conformed to the medias pressure of trying to stay youthful. So , Madonna gives in to the Murdoch controlled medias view of the world...Well.... AINT LIFE A BITCH!?! Poor old Madge portrays an image of a woman in control, yet at home, like any other woman, shes constrained by the worlds perception of how she should look when she glimpses sags in that generous three way mirror in her sumptous boudoir... I might also add, that this perception of how a woman should look is mainly perpetrated by WOMEN themselves, with a generous topping of misogynistic gay fashion designers more than willing to send a woman up on the catwalk (oops! Sorry! I mean those designers are "Edgy/ pushing the envelope"). Madonnas made lots of gr8 records, I've got 'em! Shes also an incredible cutural icon. But she could be sooo much richer in her body of work, if she let go of 'youth' & artistically, started exploring other areas. Fans trying to pigeonhole her to her sexuality/dance roots are actually BOXING HER IN. The womans had years of absorbing art from around the world. Now, lets see the fruits from all her wordly experiences, because as a rich powerful woman, shes probably been privay to more aspects of life than you or I will ever see. If she continues in the same 'hey kids, Im one of you'/ i wear a basque so i'm relevant vein, its just, tired. Also I think it's very homophobic to say gay fashion designers are misogynistic. Most gay men I know love and respect women. Just because you are interested in fashion and design for women doesn't mean you are disrespecting them somehow. |
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#107 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I am MALE
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My problem with the whole aging thing - see went through a period of maturing Erotica - Bedtime Stories - Ray Of Light - Music - American Life. It felt like she was progressing. Then the superb Confessions came out and was mega successful, it was very retro and a nod and a wink to where she came from. I'd have liked her to then revert back to the path she was following - but Hard Candy was almost like Confessions minus dignity. A few good songs but by no means what she had acheived on Music and American Life - numerous SOLID pop songs. Madonna is too good for Timberland/lake.
I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by MDNA - GMAYL didn't fill me with confidence I have to say - but Masterpiece did....and I like Girls Gone Wild - so here's hoping. |
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#108 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Have you listened to Garbage's albums? I love all their records. You may not like them but many people do. And what does the quality of music have to do with Shirley having an opinion.
Also I think it's very homophobic to say gay fashion designers are misogynistic. Most gay men I know love and respect women. Just because you are interested in fashion and design for women doesn't mean you are disrespecting them somehow. On the subject of homophobia, I am a fagatron too!! I've been privay to the machinations of certain designers (big name & no name), and you only have to look at the history of fashion to see what some 'My Sisters' have done to the female form... But that sacred 'relationship' that starts with a bored rich socialite and her gay designer friend must never be tarnished, must it?! Fagatrons are like breeders, some are gr8, some are sh*te! |
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#109 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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yes, i have listened to Garbages 'ouvre', and it declines with each release.... but thats my opinion & we shall have to agree to disagree...
On the subject of homophobia, I am a fagatron too!! I've been privay to the machinations of certain designers (big name & no name), and you only have to look at the history of fashion to see what some 'My Sisters' have done to the female form... But that sacred 'relationship' that starts with a bored rich socialite and her gay designer friend must never be tarnished, must it?! Fagatrons are like breeders, some are gr8, some are sh*te! I've never understood why some members of the gay community use derogatory words like "fagatrons" about other members of their own community. I wish derogatory hateful words like that could be eliminated from public discourse. I don't like it when gay people perpetrate use of such language. It's not helpful at all. |
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#110 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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My problem with the whole aging thing - see went through a period of maturing Erotica - Bedtime Stories - Ray Of Light - Music - American Life. It felt like she was progressing. Then the superb Confessions came out and was mega successful, it was very retro and a nod and a wink to where she came from. I'd have liked her to then revert back to the path she was following - but Hard Candy was almost like Confessions minus dignity. A few good songs but by no means what she had acheived on Music and American Life - numerous SOLID pop songs. Madonna is too good for Timberland/lake.
I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by MDNA - GMAYL didn't fill me with confidence I have to say - but Masterpiece did....and I like Girls Gone Wild - so here's hoping. |
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#111 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
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I don't understand your point about fashion designers at all. A lot of what is on the runway is fantasy and a show, just like a pop concert. Any intelligent woman knows that and doesn't think she has to dress that way in everyday life. Designers are creating a show and a fantasy not trying to distort the female form.
I've never understood why some members of the gay community use derogatory words like "fagatrons" about other members of their own community. I wish derogatory hateful words like that could be eliminated from public discourse. I don't like it when gay people perpetrate use of such language. It's not helpful at all. As for how I 'label' myself/sexuality.... I prefer Fagatron to 'gay', which personally I find irritating. Still, its all horses-for-courses... |
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#112 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 27,919
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yes, i have listened to Garbages 'ouvre', and it declines with each release.... but thats my opinion & we shall have to agree to disagree...
On the subject of homophobia, I am a fagatron too!! I've been privay to the machinations of certain designers (big name & no name), and you only have to look at the history of fashion to see what some 'My Sisters' have done to the female form... But that sacred 'relationship' that starts with a bored rich socialite and her gay designer friend must never be tarnished, must it?! Fagatrons are like breeders, some are gr8, some are sh*te! |
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#113 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,177
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My problem with the whole aging thing - see went through a period of maturing Erotica - Bedtime Stories - Ray Of Light - Music - American Life. It felt like she was progressing. Then the superb Confessions came out and was mega successful, it was very retro and a nod and a wink to where she came from. I'd have liked her to then revert back to the path she was following - but Hard Candy was almost like Confessions minus dignity. A few good songs but by no means what she had acheived on Music and American Life - numerous SOLID pop songs. Madonna is too good for Timberland/lake.
I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by MDNA - GMAYL didn't fill me with confidence I have to say - but Masterpiece did....and I like Girls Gone Wild - so here's hoping. |
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#114 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,177
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the point is that adults, people of my and madonnas age group dont need to display or need to see/show gussets to get sex appeal. we KNOW what a human body is like, we arent immature schoolkids getting their kicks off seeing as much flesh as we can...we know what the female body is like.
growing old with grace and dignity means that you can portray your sex appeal without resorting to nakedness, we know whats beneath the clothing, we dont need to see it, looking someone in the eye with that mutual knowlege is far sexier then having her reveal everything. thats not prudish, its maturity. The point is though, as Gigi4 mentioned, Madonna is not being naked in this picture. she's in underwear and perhaps you're one of those who are having issues with mature women who are in touch with their sexuality which has nothing to do with showing sex-appeal. And yes men don't cavort in underwear trying to look young. They do much worse, they hook up with 20yo things to recapture a bit of their youth and sometimes in the back of their wives!? But once again, it's acceptable to Society, they aren't cougars, are they?? |
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#115 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
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When in recent years does Madonna go around naked? She hasn't posed nude since the Sex book era. Everyone acts like she's performing or posing completely naked. Yes, she's sexy but I don't think it's lewd or tasteless. It's only because of her age that people get bent out of shape about it.
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Well, if it's how you define 'growing old with grace and dignity' then it screams Bigotry all over it to me. If I apply your logic, then this should have nothing to do with age. Whether a woman is 25, 40 or nearly 55 she should be able to portray sex-appeal without resorting to nakenedness. In that sense, you should condemn Madonna for being sexual and playing with nudity since she first came onto the scene. And you should disagree with the way any other Women used nakedness to do the same thing. Instead you're creating double-standards and justify your point with age which I personally think hypocritical. as I said before, to me, using nudity has nothing to do with age but more to do with the reasons behind it. Madonna has been making statements with it - The Pop tarts of today are just being shallow with it. That's a huge difference!
The point is though, as Gigi4 mentioned, Madonna is not being naked in this picture. she's in underwear and perhaps you're one of those who are having issues with mature women who are in touch with their sexuality which has nothing to do with showing sex-appeal. And yes men don't cavort in underwear trying to look young. They do much worse, they hook up with 20yo things to recapture a bit of their youth and sometimes in the back of their wives!? But once again, it's acceptable to Society, they aren't cougars, are they?? i dont agree that todays poppettes are worse then madonna... i see no difference, except that madonna should know better. the reasons behind it are simple.... money. in the 80's madonna might have been miking statements, but not now. now whos being ageist?.. i HAVE a partner whos 23 and it has nothing to do with recapturing youth. i wouldnt want to go back there except for fitness reasons! ive never been more content as an adult. i have no issues with cougars per se. i have issues with musical artists (of any sex or age) using a slutty image to promote their inferior material. |
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#116 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
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I dont want to see anyone over 50 getting their tits out, whether they're female or male. This obsession of looking forever young is just sad and smacks of wanting to be part of the 'in' crowd at the cost of personal dignity.
She has the money/power to musically push boundaries for herself, but she ghettoises herself because shes afraid to take chances. But thats always been her achilles heel , her obsession with her own image:yawn::yawn::yawn::sleep::sleep::sleep: |
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#117 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Herr Flick's dungeon
Posts: 5,939
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Madonna will settle down and act her age when she is good and ready.
For now let's just enjoy the M.U.S.I.C! |
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#118 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30,890
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I don't think I will ever get that feeling again from a Madonna album that I got when I played Like A Prayer for the first time.
But I thank her for that.
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#119 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: A Pirate At Sea
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if you have a vagina you will always be a girl!
If you think young you will always be young! |
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#120 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Herr Flick's dungeon
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if you have a vagina you will always be a girl!
If you think young you will always be young! Madonna thinks young but she is still in her 50s and despite what you or any other Madonna fan thinks or believes, some people don't think it's right for a woman her age to be dressing/acting like she does or doing the kind of songs she's doing or singing in that higher pitched auto tuned voice that she's currently singing in. I don't like GMAYL or GGW but I DO like Masterpiece and am looking forward to the album nevertheless. |
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#121 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,755
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I dont want to see anyone over 50 getting their tits out, whether they're female or male. This obsession of looking forever young is just sad and smacks of wanting to be part of the 'in' crowd at the cost of personal dignity.
She has the money/power to musically push boundaries for herself, but she ghettoises herself because shes afraid to take chances. But thats always been her achilles heel , her obsession with her own image:yawn::yawn::yawn::sleep::sleep::sleep: Quote:
if you have a vagina you will always be a girl!
If you think young you will always be young! |
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#122 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,436
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eh? no ones said shes LITERALLY naked...
bib EXACTLY! ive already posted that im against anyone using overt sex to sell music.. but the young can be somewhat understood because they are young and havnt matured enough to realise what dignity and grace is. ... its like you dont get adults looking up swear words in the dictionary for cheap kicks... children do. and thats why its worse for a skinny (not sexy at all) middle aged woman to carry on performing like shes 20. i dont agree that todays poppettes are worse then madonna... i see no difference, except that madonna should know better. the reasons behind it are simple.... money. in the 80's madonna might have been miking statements, but not now. now whos being ageist?.. i HAVE a partner whos 23 and it has nothing to do with recapturing youth. i wouldnt want to go back there except for fitness reasons! ive never been more content as an adult. i have no issues with cougars per se. i have issues with musical artists (of any sex or age) using a slutty image to promote their inferior material. Madonna isn't really using sex to sell her music like a lot of younger female artists though. Her sexuality is her expression. I don't want to generalize but look at who the majority of Madonna's fans are. They are gay men and straight women. Most of them are not buying Madonna's music because they find her sexually attractive or because they are fantasizing about sleeping with her. She doesn't get a large straight male audience like some of the younger female "sexy" acts do. Her sexuality is more of a statement of I'm going to do what I want and what feels right for me even if people don't agree with it. It's an outsider mentality which appeals to gay men and straight women. It's not about trying to be alluring to straight men in the traditional sexy way. You may think her music is of lower quality, but not everyone does. Quality is subjective. Even when she was doing what you might consider quality music, she was still sexual. She has always been a sexual performer. |
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#123 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 406
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God what I'd give or another like a prayer now, she never has been a bandwagon jumper, and always been so far out front creatively, not this time. And really it shows her insecurity about her age, her constant reference to being a girl, for gods sake she could be so much more, and the thing that really shows is she has no songs that we've heard that are like "what the **** was that" < in a good way! it's more about looking like shes twenty and after her image has spent the best part of 3 weeks at a retouching suite, she does look twenty, but that's not why we love Madonna is it?
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#124 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,755
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People are saying over and over that she's getting her tits out but she's not fully exposing her breasts!
Madonna isn't really using sex to sell her music like a lot of younger female artists though. Her sexuality is her expression. I don't want to generalize but look at who the majority of Madonna's fans are. They are gay men and straight women. Most of them are not buying Madonna's music because they find her sexually attractive or because they are fantasizing about sleeping with her. She doesn't get a large straight male audience like some of the younger female "sexy" acts do. Her sexuality is more of a statement of I'm going to do what I want and what feels right for me even if people don't agree with it. It's an outsider mentality which appeals to gay men and straight women. It's not about trying to be alluring to straight men in the traditional sexy way. You may think her music is of lower quality, but not everyone does. Quality is subjective. Even when she was doing what you might consider quality music, she was still sexual. She has always been a sexual performer. i dont think her material over the last decade or so is anywhere near the quality of what it was in the 80's 90's.. i believe the critics think along similar lines. |
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#125 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,431
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the point is that adults, people of my and madonnas age group dont need to display or need to see/show gussets to get sex appeal. we KNOW what a human body is like, we arent immature schoolkids getting their kicks off seeing as much flesh as we can...we know what the female body is like.
growing old with grace and dignity means that you can portray your sex appeal without resorting to nakedness, we know whats beneath the clothing, we dont need to see it, looking someone in the eye with that mutual knowlege is far sexier then having her reveal everything. thats not prudish, its maturity. After all she is the Queen Of Pop. But then again she is making the same mistake (albeit in a less literal/stomach churning sense) that the King of Pop made. At a certain age it is totally inappropriate to act more embarrassingly and immaturely than people the same age as your children. The very fact most media outposts have highlighted in the last 24 hours her refusal to allow Susan Boyle to cover one of her great underrated singles "You'll See" that tower over the rubbish she has released since the Hard Candy era only highlights her insecurity, that she does not want to be associated with people of a similar age to herself, and the fact she is her 50s. All in all she is sending out a huge FU to her fanbase who made her a star in the 1980s and followed her ever since, many of whom now have grandchildren.. It is such a pity, certainly from a UK perspective that Masterpiece from her forthcoming album has been far better received by the UK media/music critics than either of her two official singles. Still maybe as Britain's most listened to Radio 2 DJ Chris Evans (who can't stand Lady Gaga or Rihanna, but has always been a big fan of Madonna) has labelled her forthcoming album "MDOA" after going to a listening party of it, and spent the following morning playing snippets from her 80s & 90s singles saying stuff like "remember when Madonna was good, etc"; then maybe his rival Radio 1 breakfast DJ Chris Moyles will actually make the effort of playing her new stuff... In the past the likes of Cher, Diana Ross & Tina Turner have all aged relatively gracefully whilst keeping an element of their sexuality to their performance/singles and maintained a level of chart success, but Madonna seem to want to take things too far. |
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let us know what the real mushymanrob is like 
