far from it. almost all of my posts have been stating that Apple are superb (truly superb) at marketing.

LOL I have plenty of reasons why I (personally) dont like Apple thanks

Admittedly many seem to be disappearing..... particularly since the new regime has taken over .....

Back to the music...

iTunes music has been DRM free for a few years now. But the reason it had DRM in the first place was down to the record companies (who also imposed it on competitor devices, causing the exact same problem, e.g. tracks bought from the Zune store could only be played on Zune players because they had DRM).

In February 2007, Steve Jobs called on the "Big Four" record companies to get rid of their requirement for DRM.

Later that year, DRM-free "iTunes Plus" tracks started to be made available via iTunes. Within two years, Apple had deals in place with the major labels so that all music on iTunes would be DRM-free "iTunes Plus".

https://www.apple.com/uk/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

you missed the bit where Amazon MP3 had all 4 big labels letting it sell DRM-free, a year before itunes did. Was that not in the Gospel according to Jobs?

Only a few years after apple scared the crap out of the labels once they realized they lost control to apple... then they turned to amazon.

And Yahoo were publicly pushing for DRM free from labels at least as far back as Jul 2006.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/191000022

"As you know, we've been publicly trying to convince record labels that they should be selling MP3s for a while now. " - Yahoo spokesman

Then why is there an army of volunteers ready, willing and able to poke holes in Apple and its products?

At best the 'Apple are good at marketing' meme is a left-handed complement. At worst, it's an example of magical thinking.

I wonder if you have any idea what marketing actually is?

you think Apple AREN'T brilliant marketeers because some people outside their target audience are immune to their charms?

I'd love to know more about what marketing actually is, and how it differs from what some would say Apple do very well...

Does anyone know if the link is open to reserve online & pick up in store? I cannot find it.

thank-you x

If wasn't up when pre-orders started, so I would assume that it won't go up until after launch. I don't think you could pre-order for reserve & collect the iPad 2 last year, plus the iPhone 4S didn't have reserve & collect until after launch.

You may have to queue if you want one soon, otherwise wait for the online orders to settle.

I like to think I am relatively experienced with the English language thanks .....

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marketing

mar·ket·ing noun \ˈmär-kə-tiŋ\
Definition of MARKETING
1a : the act or process of selling or purchasing in a market
b : the process or technique of promoting, selling, and
distributing a product or service

2: an aggregate of functions involved in moving goods from producer to consumer

OK.... I think 1b has me covered. Apple are very good at PROMOTING, SELLING and DISTRIBUTING a PRODUCT or service.

I make reference in particular to their incredible ability to Promote. As has been stated by most parties on here Apple take existing products, often ones that have historically have not sold well, and PROMOTE them as 'must have' items. They have done this with:

a) the mp3 player
b) the smartphone
c) the tablet

Perhaps you have a different definition you'd like to discuss ?

Again, if you have to pretend its merely marketing you've revealed yourself as just yet another apple hater. Its been explained to you already in this thread, and by your posts, probably others through the years, but like your obsolete claims on apple music drm, your arguments haven't changed for years now, and are unaffected by logic.

My God ..... im being complimentary about Apple and im still getting grief

Ive even admitted that 'some' of my arguments may be out of date ......

Some of them arent though but do i have to list them ?

you must pretend that they don't have massive advertising campaigns or put a lot of effort into generating hype around their products. The only way they make sales is through word of mouth as they are so beautifully awesome. Obviously.

If Apple's products were a complete pile of poo, do you think that with the same advertising and hype they would still sell for the price they do, in the volumes they do? Indeed would there be any hype if they had a reputation for churning out products that were turds?

no, but if they were as fantastic as some people believe, do you think they would need a shit load of TV advertising to sell? Compare with their competitors - how many HTC adverts have you seen on TV for example?

I was getting the impression from yours and Stuart_h's posts that you both think that advertising is the only reason for their sales volumes.

HTC is a bit of a weird example to use as they have been sponsoring films on a digital channel recently and you see mini adverts at the beginning and end of every break, depending on which programmes you watch, it's possible to have seen more of theirs then Apple's.

It's not about being shite. Their advertisment makes the potential buyer feel special that they chose an Apple product, it started with Think different, which is now not possible anymore at least as for iPhone, because everybody seems to think different, i.e., the same now. But it's still about being magical, special, extraordinary, which make people crave their products like an addict a hit

Oh I agree that Apple have a certain way with words, I think it was on this thread I suggested a drinking game for Apple product launches (for each use of words like; magical, special and revolutionary). No doubt there are some people who will buy their products because they want to feel special, some will buy because they are so brand loyal they always buy the newest product, the vast majority will buy for a myraid different reasons, I just thought the other posters were generalising a wee bit and as others have implied yes there is the marketing, but it's more complicated than that.

I obviously watch the wrong channels You're not seriously trying to argue that Apple does no more in TV advertising than any other tech company are you? I think other than the new Galaxy Nexus ads, I can't recall a phone or tablet TV ad recently, other than the revolutionary/magical ones.

No I'm not, I have no idea how much advertising each tech company does, but I do know that if you watch something on Film4 you've probably seen HTC's adverts rather a lot and therefore they're probably not the best company you could have used as an example. Both companies advertise a lot compared to Asus or Motorola, in fact I can't recall ever seeing an advert for the former.

Of course you are, like most haters you believe apple tricks people into buying their stuff because you simply can't give credit where credit is due, regardless of the facts.

Well for a while there i was mellowing and accepting that Apple may have changed to a degree and then .... BOOM ! ... pocatello posts and I recall why I and many, many others laugh uncontrollably at the Apple Fanatics who queue outside when a new Apple shop opens ......

Really .... apologies to all you normal Apple Users but its a minority that really screw things up for you ....

Nope. not suggesting it was the only reason at all. The products are fine. Some features better than others, some not so. Same as comparing Samsung to HTC (for example).

Where the marketing (if I DO have my terminology correct) kicks in is that they make people believe they are buying into a special experience. They have a very strong brand following but strangely an equivalent brand dislike.

If you were to take the Coke/Pepsi relationship many people have a strong brand loyalty but there is very little evidence of a strong 'dislike' for the other.

I do wonder if its all part of the new 'competitive' advertising where companies arent content with trying to 'big up' their own product but also seem to want to mock or dismiss the opposition. One of the first ones of these (that I recall) was the 'Im a PC/Im a Mac' advert. I wonder if much of the dislike (i refuse to use the word hatred as thats reserved for murderers and thieves) is that in the early days Apple tried to coerce a few by 'laughing at' the many ..... just a thought.