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iPad 3 announcement
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Stuart_h
18-03-2012
r
Originally Posted by Dark 1:
“Never suggested otherwise. I think you misunderstand.

I'm saying, with the iPad, Apple have compromised by sacrificed some areas of spec and added a little weight to retain a good build quality and a long battery life. Other manufacturers may make similar compromises. But others, to differentiate themselves, may choose to sacrifice build quality and/or battery life to gain bigger bullet point spec numbers and/or lower weight.

Which approach the buying public feels is the best remains to be seen. But I wouldn't bet against Apple's.”

whilst i agree with your sentiments in principle you dont necessarily have to compromise to increase specs.

Nexus vs iPhone 4s

Nexus has a much bigger screen, better battery life, is allegedly tougher (if you gauge that on 'more likely to survive a drop') and yet manages to be lighter than an iphone 4s.

It also manages to squeeze in a barometer, NFC and widgets and flash

But just to be clear im not 'betting against apple' .... nothing of the sort. Apple are great at marketing and seem to be able to convince people that they know best what we actually need.....
Gormond
18-03-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“r

whilst i agree with your sentiments in principle you dont necessarily have to compromise to increase specs.

Nexus vs iPhone 4s

Nexus has a much bigger screen, better battery life, is allegedly tougher (if you gauge that on 'more likely to survive a drop') and yet manages to be lighter than an iphone 4s.

It also manages to squeeze in a barometer, NFC and widgets and flash

But just to be clear im not 'betting against apple' .... nothing of the sort. Apple are great at marketing and seem to be able to convince people that they know best what we actually need.....”

Yeah and if the iPhone was made from cheap plastic it would be lighter too...

Also the nexus is huge, way to big for many people, even many android users which is why they can fit in the extra stuff.
Stuart_h
18-03-2012
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Yeah and if the iPhone was made from cheap plastic it would be lighter too...

Also the nexus is huge, way to big for many people, even many android users which is why they can fit in the extra stuff.”

cheap plastic (yawn) or cheap glass that cracks if you just look at it too hard

see you say the nexus is huge .... i say the iphone is tiny .....

luckily there are both options out there too keep both of us happy
Adam Law
18-03-2012
You can't please everyone all the time. I suspect the next iPhone is going to have a 4"+ screen. We will see.

The Nexus is way too big though for me. If the iPhone increased the screen size but managed to keep the existing form factor that would be excellent.
Stuart_h
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Adam Law:
“You can't please everyone all the time. I suspect the next iPhone is going to have a 4"+ screen. We will see.

The Nexus is way too big though for me. If the iPhone increased the screen size but managed to keep the existing form factor that would be excellent.”

Excellent for you maybe....

Whereas in my opinion the nexus is a perfect size but the note is too big.

Good job there is choice eh ......
ACU
19-03-2012
Had a play with an ipad3 yesterday. Got to say after all the hype, the screen wasn't all that. The screen was good, but would I upgrade from an ipad2, no way. I am typing this on an iPad1, which is fine.

If I was using the iPad1 about an inch from my face using a magnifying glass, then yes the ipad3 would be a justified upgrade. Since this is not how most people use tablets, it's not.
PiazzaCharlie
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“But just to be clear im not 'betting against apple' .... nothing of the sort. Apple are great at marketing and seem to be able to convince people that they know best what we actually need.....”

"Convince" suggests that people are somehow being hoodwinked though, which may or may not actually be the case.
Izak
19-03-2012
After using the iPad 3 since Friday, I am really finding the screen resolution amazing. So much so, when using my PC or iPod Touch (1st gen), I notice jagged edges around objects on screen I didn't notice before!!

Got a case on order from Amazon and have already got a little fold up travel stand which is great. Going to look into getting a bluetooth keyboard too as typing on the screen while the iPad is stood on the stand makes my arms ache!
Dark 1
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Adam Law:
“You can't please everyone all the time. I suspect the next iPhone is going to have a 4"+ screen. We will see.

The Nexus is way too big though for me. If the iPhone increased the screen size but managed to keep the existing form factor that would be excellent.”

The limitation that Apple have imposed up on themselves is they're the only ones who have stuck with a 4:3 aspect ratio for their phones. This limits how big their screens can get compared to all the other 16:9 phones out there. For Apple to follow suit now would introduce an element of fragmentation that I'm sure they'd want to avoid.

For illustration, the screen of a Galaxy S2 has a vertical dimension of 2.11". If the new iPhone had that same vertical dimension, it would still only be 3.8" compared to the S2's 4.3". And if the new iPhone had a 4.3" screen, its vertical dimension would be 2.39", i.e. more cumbersome than a Galaxy Nexus!

So basically, if you're expecting 4+ inches, I wouldn't bet on it.
jonner101
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Had a play with an ipad3 yesterday. Got to say after all the hype, the screen wasn't all that. The screen was good, but would I upgrade from an ipad2, no way. I am typing this on an iPad1, which is fine.

If I was using the iPad1 about an inch from my face using a magnifying glass, then yes the ipad3 would be a justified upgrade. Since this is not how most people use tablets, it's not.”

I can only imagine tha people who can't see a big improvement in the iPad screen at normal viewing distances must have an issue with their eyesight.
Dark 1
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by jonner101:
“I can only imagine tha people who can't see a big improvement in the iPad screen at normal viewing distances must have an issue with their eyesight.”

To be fair, as an analogy, some people can't tell the difference between a 128kb MP3 and an original CD. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a difference that wouldn't be blindingly obvious to someone else. Different people have different expectations.
IvanIV
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Izak:
“After using the iPad 3 since Friday, I am really finding the screen resolution amazing. So much so, when using my PC or iPod Touch (1st gen), I notice jagged edges around objects on screen I didn't notice before!!”

So basically you did not know you missed it until you had it It really just makes things prettier at a closer distance. With 20/20 vision and fully resolved 1920 x 1080 signal, the maximum recommended viewing distance for 9.7'' 4:3 display is 1.2 feet / ~36.6 cm. If you hold it farther, the details start blend together, if you hold it much closer you start noticing the pixels. More pixels (4 times as much between iPad 2 and 3) means you can hold it even closer, but really, is the iPad 2 that bad that one can't use it at all? People are using lets say 13'' macbooks for ages and nobody cared that a screen resolution is pretty poor even for laptop standards, only 1280x800! The new airs have 1440x900 which is still not very exciting. Will they upgrade to retina as well? Well that would give a reason to current macbook owners to go and buy another one But right now it looks like iPad is their new pet and everything else is neglected.
Inspiration
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“So basically you did not know you missed it until you had it ”

Isn't that the same with all technology? No one missed HD until they saw a HD image. No one missed 10 megapixel cameras when all they had were 1 megapixel cameras. People are allowed to experience a better quality of display and then appreciate the difference to the display they already have.
ACU
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by jonner101:
“I can only imagine tha people who can't see a big improvement in the iPad screen at normal viewing distances must have an issue with their eyesight.”

I could see an improvement. The improvement didn't live up to the hype. I am guessing a lot of apple fans are seeing the hype rather than the actual screen.

To be fair I only spent around a couple of minutes with one, I just wasn't blown away. I was expecting a lot more.
PiazzaCharlie
20-03-2012
Well, I'm seeing the screen, and I can see that its much sharper and clearer than the iPad 2.

Text is rendered with smooth, not pixellated/grainy, edges.

That's actual improvement, and not hype. I defy anyone to look at the two side by side and say they can't tell the difference.

I appreciate that not everyone likes Apple, or Apple products, or have different criteria to measure how good any given product is. But this line about how the screen isn't noticeably better than the iPad 2, and that anyone who thinks it is has somehow been brainwashed by Apple's marketing hype, is just nonsense.
ACU
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by PiazzaCharlie:
“Well, I'm seeing the screen, and I can see that its much sharper and clearer than the iPad 2.

Text is rendered with smooth, not pixellated/grainy, edges.

That's actual improvement, and not hype. I defy anyone to look at the two side by side and say they can't tell the difference.

I appreciate that not everyone likes Apple, or Apple products, or have different criteria to measure how good any given product is. But this line about how the screen isn't noticeably better than the iPad 2, and that anyone who thinks it is has somehow been brainwashed by Apple's marketing hype, is just nonsense.”

I am using an ipad1, the text is fine. No pixellation that I can see. Of course zooming right in, I can see pixellation. However that's not how I, and I am guessing most people use the iPad.

Like I said I only used it for a very short time. I did no side by side comparison. I am staring at the text now, trying to spot the pixellation....I just can't see it. Maybe if I used the ipad3 for a few days and then went to use an earlier model I would notice the difference. However the first time I saw the display, I was underwhelmed. That has nothing to do with an 'agenda'.

Of course a lot of people that complain about the ipad2/1 screens now, we're saying how great they were when they first came out, go figure it seems overnight they have got bad.
jonner101
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I am using an ipad1, the text is fine. No pixellation that I can see. Of course zooming right in, I can see pixellation. However that's not how I, and I am guessing most people use the iPad.

Like I said I only used it for a very short time. I did no side by side comparison. I am staring at the text now, trying to spot the pixellation....I just can't see it. Maybe if I used the ipad3 for a few days and then went to use an earlier model I would notice the difference. However the first time I saw the display, I was underwhelmed. That has nothing to do with an 'agenda'.

Of course a lot of people that complain about the ipad2/1 screens now, we're saying how great they were when they first came out, go figure it seems overnight they have got bad.”

Anyone with normal eysight should be able to see pixels at normal viewing distances on a normal lcd display like a lcd monitor or iPad1/2. You can clearly see pixels on the top of the number "1" .

I can't see the pixels without my glasses or contacts in, so perhaps you need to get glasses ?
pocatello
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“So basically you did not know you missed it until you had it It really just makes things prettier at a closer distance. With 20/20 vision and fully resolved 1920 x 1080 signal, the maximum recommended viewing distance for 9.7'' 4:3 display is 1.2 feet / ~36.6 cm. If you hold it farther, the details start blend together, if you hold it much closer you start noticing the pixels. More pixels (4 times as much between iPad 2 and 3) means you can hold it even closer, but really, is the iPad 2 that bad that one can't use it at all? People are using lets say 13'' macbooks for ages and nobody cared that a screen resolution is pretty poor even for laptop standards, only 1280x800! The new airs have 1440x900 which is still not very exciting. Will they upgrade to retina as well? Well that would give a reason to current macbook owners to go and buy another one But right now it looks like iPad is their new pet and everything else is neglected.”

Well people used vcrs for a long time as well Its just how it is, now we have bluray vcr looks like total crap.
IvanIV
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by pocatello:
“Well people used vcrs for a long time as well Its just how it is, now we have bluray vcr looks like total crap.”

VCRs always looked crap, NTSC TVs looked crap, it just wasn't possible to do something better with the state of the technology at that time that could be available for reasonable price. The non-"retina" screens don't really look crap, just not as sharp as "retina" ones.
PiazzaCharlie
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I am using an ipad1, the text is fine. No pixellation that I can see. Of course zooming right in, I can see pixellation. However that's not how I, and I am guessing most people use the iPad.

Like I said I only used it for a very short time. I did no side by side comparison. I am staring at the text now, trying to spot the pixellation....I just can't see it. Maybe if I used the ipad3 for a few days and then went to use an earlier model I would notice the difference. However the first time I saw the display, I was underwhelmed. That has nothing to do with an 'agenda'.

Of course a lot of people that complain about the ipad2/1 screens now, we're saying how great they were when they first came out, go figure it seems overnight they have got bad.”

No-one said anything about an 'agenda' except you.

No-one said the screens on the previous iPads were bad, except you. But that's not to say that the screen on the new iPad isn't better.

Like it or not, even if you can't appreciate the difference, others can - and its got nothing to do with falling for any hype.

Look at both side by side, then come back here and tell us you can't notice any difference.
alanwarwic
20-03-2012
I'm using a 1280 X 800 12" matt screen for a 720p like resolution that suits the size perfectly.
It's possibly why people are happy with 1600 X 900 at 19" and full 1080p at 22"

Apple's 4 times multiplication though does make for cleaner conversion back down to 1024 * 768 with 1080p needing no conversion using black borders. Methinks iPad 4 will obviously start at 32GB.
Sniffle774
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“I'm using a 1280 X 800 12" matt screen for a 720p like resolution that suits the size perfectly.
It's possibly why people are happy with 1600 X 900 at 19" and full 1080p at 22"

Apple's 4 times multiplication though does make for cleaner conversion back down to 1024 * 768 with 1080p needing no conversion using black borders. Methinks iPad 4 will obviously start at 32GB.”

Be interesting to see how they handle the price structure on that. If they stick with the current level for new, reduced for previous model going to set the bar pretty high for new buyers.
pocatello
20-03-2012
Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“VCRs always looked crap, NTSC TVs looked crap, it just wasn't possible to do something better with the state of the technology at that time that could be available for reasonable price. The non-"retina" screens don't really look crap, just not as sharp as "retina" ones.”

No your expectations were just different, people still fixated on which tape system was better, and which model tv was better, even if it was "crap", the concept of higher quality was a distant dream ...I just don't think you remember how expectations changed. Even back then there were "videophiles". The standard for crap is different for such a device, if you are meant to consume text on a small screen it has to be sharp, and for that, the old screens were not fit for purpose, the same way vhs...and even laser disc/dvd were not fit for purpose for appreciating film, but at those times that was all we had, so you couldn't expect better. But now you have retina, and bluray, both of which are finally doing it how it was always meant to be done. Both of these are where they finally reach a certain bar, like how audio did when it finally reached "cd quality".
IvanIV
20-03-2012
Here's a video that compares the three iPads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yx1AoQo1Nc

You can see what difference the retina display makes if you look from up close.
Weeksy
20-03-2012
Must admit I wasn't convinced, but having had my 3 for a bit, and had a play with the 2 today, I can see a difference. Only in co mparision with being used to the 3 though, before I got it, I thought the iPad 2 was flawless. I'm happy with my 3, just occasionally wish it was a bit lighter
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