That attitude does my head in sometimes, you hear people using it to describe The Wanted's current "success" in America. God help us if this is the kind of music flying our flag.

It matters not. It is success either way.

That whole "flying the flag" nonsense never works... Americans hate it when you go all patriotic over music. It's probably the worst thing you can possibly do when you go over "the other side of the pond". I remember back in the 90s... "Britpop", such a shocking term. Making rock music your own genre and adding pop? It was rock music... And it was the media that created that, had it just been rock I don't think Americans would of been so dismissive towards bands that came out of the 90s. Yes, we all bloody love Princess Diana, Mary Poppins and Austin Powers... But seriously, sometimes too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing.

What I don't need is the flying the flag nonsense. It implies this is the best we have to offer when it's not true.

TBH I don't think they care. They only care about the music. The flag thing only works in England when you have success a la Adele at the Brits.

We certainly do have the best talent to offer IMO. We just have to get them out there. The Brit acts going to the US in 2012 are having to compete with the US acts. And thinking about those who have deals and are going, they don't have American equivalents, and those that do, they only have one.

And who are these Brit acts?

To be honest, I'm not really bothered if the artists I like crack America. I don't need American affirmation to make me enjoy my music any more.

No, but their success helps overall. Evens out the balance. We always have US acts in our charts, it's time we returned the favour.

Adele, Emeli Sande, Leona Lewis, Coldplay, Rebecca Ferguson (song is on itunes and US radio), Alexandra Burke (I'm talking about their raw talent in terms of the ladies, they can all sing very well), and um...lower down the list..*ahem* Tulisa, Cher Lloyd, Cheryl Cole, 1D, the wanted, Calvin Harris, Example, and I'm sure there are more.

The lower down list... No, just no. The rest doesn't look too bad.

Take Adele and Coldplay out of that list and it's woeful. Not a true representation of good British music at all. Just churned out rubbish.

Meh. Up to you then. Woeful if you wish.

yeah...I did say *ahem*. But Calvin is charting with a new single in America already.

I don't think that list is that bad... If you compare it to what British acts there have been in the past then yeah it looks dreadful. I don't think you will find less deserving acts than
Tulisa, Cheryl Cole, One Direction, The Wanted and Cher Lloyd

I'll have to agree. This is a dreadful list. If these acts are all what the BMS has to offer to set alight the US charts well no wonder why Engelbert Humperdinck is held the best thing that could happen to UK entry this year by some...I'll put Coldplay and Adele aside though. As for Leona Lewis, considering they've tried to turn her into a modern version of vintage Mariah-meets-Whitney, I have my reservations on her.

Well there isn't anyone around ATM. So what do you expect? Engelbert is a legend regardless and eurovision is a joke. With the ones at the front I was referring to their talent. I forgot to add Florence and Marina to that list.

Isn't there anyone around? Or the 'talented one' are still on the underground scene and have yet to go mainstream? I'll probably agree with you about Emeli Sande - I'm not totally sold but songs like Next to Me or My Kind of Love show she's got potential, at least vocally - but I really can't see Alexandra Burke as a (raw) talent...I'm not saying she's rubbish her success has more to do with being hooked up with the right producers and being given the right songs than actually showing any talent of her own at making music...I'm not necessarily a fan of these acts and I'm not even sure some are still relevant today but they seem a bit more credible to me: The wombats, Lily Allen, Kate Nash, Razorlight, the Kooks, Keane, Snow Petrol, Athlete, Ms Dynamite, Katy B, Delilah, Yasmin, Dizee Rascal, Mika & Goldfrapp. And I'm not sure about Marina. We've already got Florence so we don't need necessarily another average Florence/kate tribute act.

I'm referring to acts who are mainstream already. Alex is no different than Beyonce. I'm referring to her vocal and performance skills. Just because she doesn't play instruments makes her less talented. Whitney Houston? No different than anyone. Everyone uses producers. I swear Katy B was meant to have a US album launch. Shame. IMO Alex's success was built on the fact she could sing, and well. Yes she had pop tunes and all, no different than Rihanna.

A Grammy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb2YEaZc60c

To quote Milli Vanilli:"There's nothing like winning a Grammy to give you lasting credibility"...

If we're talking about the hard work she put in to earn the success she got, then yes, I can see how she's no different than Beyonce. The difference is that Beyonce is a natural performer and has star quality - and I'm not a fan of Beyonce at all - while Alexandra has no natural talents. She can sing she can dance and has strong performance skills but that doesn't mean she's naturally talented. As a performer she has no individuality and I think her success has been built on the choice of songs and producers - in that sense, you're right, there's no difference with Rihanna, except that Rihanna had a bit more natural sass going for her and her progression was clear all the way. That was until she cheapened herself with Loud and so on...
I'm more drawn to acts who are able to write their own songs or at least have a firm hand on the artistic process and in this case, even if I was never a fan of her, to me Whitney was no jukebox. And even if she was, she had the voice, the stage presence and, despite the clean cut image turned train-wreck, personality! To me Alexandra is no different than any other London teenage girl who have the dance moves, the swag, a good voice and the energy. Unlike any other teenager, Alexandra has the drive and really wants it...

Your entire argument falls down right there. While other acts like Jessie J, Leona Lewis, Adele and Amy Winehouse all went to the BRIT school and got professional training, Alexandra came from a relatively poor upbringing, sharing a bedroom with her sister etc...her family couldn't afford to get her those lessons....

So all of Alexandra's vocal ability and style has been based on raw talent which she has been building on since a young age with only the guidance of her mother (also a singer) to go by...

You can't then say that she has 'no natural talents' taking this into consideration. Even the ability to sing on pitch without significant training is a natural talent in itself, so Alexandra's gift if anything is all based on her own talent.

I love Beyonce but she's very much a fusion of Tina Turner and Michael Jackson in terms of the way she moves. And I'm not sure about the natural thing. She has a great eye and can dance, but everything you see is Frank Gatson and JaQuel Knight. They are literally her backbone. In Alexandra's case its hard to say what she'll be as her debut wasn't entirely her idea. I wouldn't say Rihanna has natural sass at all. On her tours she was always very wooden as a performer. I certainly would say she has natural ability, you're simply born with a voice like hers (tone wise and soul etc). I personally think you can never tell natural ability or fully define it. Training helps a lot.

I'll have to disagree there. The fact she had a poor upbringing makes no difference to me. You either got natural talent or not. Then it can be nurtured, polished and managed or remained raw for various reasons. The fact that Leona Lewis and Amy went to Brits School makes little difference in the fact that they have/had the voice to begin with...I suppose, they have the advantage to get some training but then, especially with Amy, their own creativity, flair and experience made them. I don't see that with Alexandra. As you mentioned, Alexandra's mother is a singer so, if I go by your argument, actually she's the luckiest girl out of the whole lot. Having the "luxury" to be brought up by a professional singer who worked in the past with the likes of SoulIISoul and Whitney...Surely, that might have help a little when she couldn't afford singing lessons?
But the thing is, after her first stint at the X-factor she took years of singing lessons and you can tell. Technically she's good but her voice has noting special. I'm a good cook and have been told so many times I could have my own restaurant and I'm sure if I put my heart and soul into it, given the right training to perfect my skills, I could be successful. Does it mean I have the natural creativity, skill set & flair to be the next Raymond Blanc? Nope. And that's what I mean - Alexandra is a good performer, she can sing and has good songs to make her successful enough but that's not down to natural talent.