[chrisy]

Originally Posted by popeye13

Do we know if there is any space for a new 24h stream that would mean Channel4 would not have to remove E4+1?

I refer you back to post #11, above.

@DragonQ

Same for you.

edit Grr, except it isn't above as my post has ended up on the second page. direct link

Actually, I see now it was a reply to DragonQ, so why are you even querying the video quality issue? It should have been evident that this is increased capacity, not increased compression (which doesn't necessarily mean worse PQ anyway).

[DragonQ]

I am confused. In what way does an increase from 24.13 Mbps to 24.88 Mbps allow an extra channel without the quality of other channels suffering, when each channel uses 2-3 Mbps?

[David (2)]

freeview pic quality is already too low on many channels. I hate to think what i will look like in say 2 years time. The general move being to have more channels, at the cost of overall picture quality.

If Freeview wants to go down this route, they dont just need 1 or 2 extra channel spaces made by compression changes etc, but a 7th and even 8th multiplex.

[rasbo]

I think they should rebrand.

Channel 4
More channel 4 (repeats station replacing More 4)
Channel 4B (For new content, and content like Big brothers little Brother that goes further in depth)
Channel 4play - (formally 4 Music - pretty much like UK Play)
Channel 4 Films (formally Film4)
Channel 4 Nashville (formally E4 - now a dedicated country music station)

[a516]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

I am confused. In what way does an increase from 24.13 Mbps to 24.88 Mbps allow an extra channel without the quality of other channels suffering, when each channel uses 2-3 Mbps?

SDN, Arqiva A and Arqiva B increase from 24 to 27 Mbps through the FEC change.

Post-DSO Arqiva A has the same amount of streams as pre-DSO Mux C. Mux C has 18 Mbps of capacity, Arqiva A has 24 Mbps, with the extra 6 Mbps underutilised. With the FEC change total capacity increases to 27 Mbps, thus 9 Mbps more than its pre-DSO counterpart = three more streams, without touching the 18 Mbps bandwidth already used for other services on that mux. 2 extra streams from the QAM change, 1 extra stream from the FEC change.

No compression needed.


On Arqiva B, Big Deal holding the extra capacity, but appears to be temporary. Arqiva B is the same as pre-DSO Mux D, but with Sky Sports 1, 2 and Big Deal (three extra streams - two from the QAM change, one from the FEC change).

[gottago]

Originally Posted by rasbo

I think they should rebrand.

Channel 4
More channel 4 (repeats station replacing More 4)
Channel 4B (For new content, and content like Big brothers little Brother that goes further in depth)
Channel 4play - (formally 4 Music - pretty much like UK Play)
Channel 4 Films (formally Film4)
Channel 4 Nashville (formally E4 - now a dedicated country music station)

Wow. Just wow.

[rasbo]

Originally Posted by gottago

Wow. Just wow.

thanks

[David (2)]

Channel 4.0
Channel 4.1
Channel 4.2
Channel 4.3

[DragonQ]

Originally Posted by a516

SDN, Arqiva A and Arqiva B increase from 24 to 27 Mbps through the FEC change.

Post-DSO Arqiva A has the same amount of streams as pre-DSO Mux C. Mux C has 18 Mbps of capacity, Arqiva A has 24 Mbps, with the extra 6 Mbps underutilised. With the FEC change total capacity increases to 27 Mbps, thus 9 Mbps more than its pre-DSO counterpart = three more streams, without touching the 18 Mbps bandwidth already used for other services on that mux. 2 extra streams from the QAM change, 1 extra stream from the FEC change.

No compression needed.


On Arqiva B, Big Deal holding the extra capacity, but appears to be temporary. Arqiva B is the same as pre-DSO Mux D, but with Sky Sports 1, 2 and Big Deal (three extra streams - two from the QAM change, one from the FEC change).

I see, didn't see anything about 27 Mbps when I first read it. So, for SD channels we have:

Pre-DSO: 4x18 + 2x24 Mbps = 120 Mbps
Post-DSO: 2x24 + 3x27 Mbps = 129 Mbps (+40 Mbps HD mux)

So there's 9 Mbps extra, space for 3 channels at decent quality. Hopefully they won't try to squeeze in 4 or 5. I wonder if they will make the same change to the two SD PSB muxes too in the future, or whether they'll decide that it'll make the signal too unstable.

[a516]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

I see, didn't see anything about 27 Mbps when I first read it. So, for SD channels we have:

Pre-DSO: 4x18 + 2x24 Mbps = 120 Mbps
Post-DSO: 2x24 + 3x27 Mbps = 129 Mbps (+40 Mbps HD mux)

So there's 9 Mbps extra, space for 3 channels at decent quality. Hopefully they won't try to squeeze in 4 or 5. I wonder if they will make the same change to the two SD PSB muxes too in the future, or whether they'll decide that it'll make the signal too unstable.

Plus bear in mind that the extra 6 Mbps on Arqiva A following conversion from Mux C is still not used - that's another two empty slots without nicking any bandwidth from any other channel.

[chrisy]

Originally Posted by a516

Plus bear in mind that the extra 6 Mbps on Arqiva A following conversion from Mux C is still not used - that's another two empty slots without nicking any bandwidth from any other channel.

I'm not entirely sure how "unused" that is. They squeezed a load of channels in (both pre and post DSO), and post DSO has SkyText there too (although that has been reduced so much it is likely making minimal difference). I got the impression at the time that this 9th stream was one of the 64QAM conversion streams that they'd forced in pre-DSO to make it more sellable. The other was reserved for the BBC/Arqiva joint capacity which never materialised.

Mind you, SDN has 12 video streams (in Wales/after FEC change) and a load of data and radio services, so adding all three certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

[russellelly]

Originally Posted by gottago

Wow. Just wow.

Haha, best posts on these forums for some time.

I'd guess they'll make space for this by reducing quality, rather than closing a service.

[TelevisionUser]

Originally Posted by chrisy

Erm... so you'd rather keep a +1 channel, that shows the exact same content as another channel but an hour later, than keep a channel which has a completely different schedule, some original content and repeats of things that weren't on merely an hour ago?

They may well have secured a new channel slot anyway; Arqiva will have some spares in post-DSO regions when the FEC change completes. Otherwise it is incredibly likely that E4+1 will get the chop.

@ndev70

I was thinking the same thing - chances are there won't be printed listings, which means I'm unlikely to ever watch anything on it.

Many of the reports aren't clear about this but from what I have read, a couple of reports seem to indicate that they are going to get extra space but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

I can see why C4 are going for this because most TV is still watched live and they can rebroadcast what turn out be their most popular programmes on 4seven. I daresay that it'll get good BARB ratings in the 2-3 million range for average daily reach.

[cyclips]

4seven: Now we know why FV 47 has been kept vacant.

[bayards]

Probably reserved for Big Bertha's 47" Juggernauts TV.....

[bayards]

Originally Posted by rasbo

I think they should rebrand.

Channel 4
More channel 4 (repeats station replacing More 4)
Channel 4B (For new content, and content like Big brothers little Brother that goes further in depth)
Channel 4play - (formally 4 Music - pretty much like UK Play)
Channel 4 Films (formally Film4)
Channel 4 Nashville (formally E4 - now a dedicated country music station)

Please add 4 Sure - deodorant testing and armpit channel - feeling frivolous today...

[DragonQ]

Stylised as "FoSho", of course.

[Muzer]

Originally Posted by cyclips

4seven: Now we know why FV 47 has been kept vacant.

Lol, why didn't I notice this? It would obviously be a very good candidate, if Channel 4 have it of course

[DragonQ]

So will there be a 4seven +1 on any platform? So we can have a programme that's shown on Channel 4, repeated on Channel 4 +1, then later shown on More4 and More4 +1, then selected for 4seven and also 4seven +1?

I still need more Come Dine With Me repeats, damn it!

[Charnham]

I hope the slot C4 buy will be of suitable quality

[lstar337]

Originally Posted by Charnham

I hope the slot C4 buy will be of suitable quality

The only slots on Freeview with suitable quality are the HD slots on the DVB-T2 mux.

[tomee]

Originally Posted by Charnham

I hope the slot C4 buy will be of suitable quality

Will it be a new slot or is one of the other freeview channel leaving freeview?

[DragonQ]

Likely a new slot - there's room for a few more channels in post-DSO regions with the recent FEC change (basically 1 extra channel on 3 of the 6 transponders, although I think one of these is temporarily being used for some shopping channel right now).

[Muzer]

They're multiplexes with terrestrial, transponders is a satellite thing

[DragonQ]

Ugh, always forget which subforum I'm in.