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Horse Racing on Terrestrial TV
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F1Ken
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by Hayden:
“It was their first go though- I'm sure they'll improve.
Holt is a master of his craft and as a non-racing specialist I enjoy Jim McGrath's input but I couldn't warm to many of the rest of them to be honest.
Balding was the only one who seemed to have that big event gravitas- don't see why she needs to be booming out of the public address system at the course as well though- too much!

I was wondering if some of the long distance shots of the horses jumping the fences was because they were worried about showing potentially fatal falls- especially at The Chair?
Playing it safe maybe?”

C4's long flowing Arial shots were akin to an episode of Inspector Lewis. No action in them at all.

I used to moan about the BBC moving there camera angle's slightly in the last few years, This was something else!

Was it the chair we missed behind the screen! I was so irate about that I lost concentration.

Ken
Glenn A
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by THOMO:
“Well certainly the BBC's coverage of racing was very sparse in recent years with only a few days covered now compared to what they used to cover. At least Channel 4 have racing every Saturday and regularly 2 meetings and quite alot of midweek racing covered as well. So far better coverage by Channel 4 in the number of meetings covered.
Ian”

I always thought ITV were better than BBC for racing. Yes the BBC were good for the Grand National and Cheltenham, but their weekend coverage was often half hearted and hosted by the sour and snobbish Julian Wilson.
Reg1
07-04-2013
Grand National coverage was ok, they did the job.
Nothing special or particularly different from the BBC.
F1Ken
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by Reg1:
“Grand National coverage was ok, they did the job.
Nothing special or particularly different from the BBC.”

Oh you forget. We missed one jump, the winner going into the lead, the start, and had to squint to see them at the distant cameras.

And then the re run was just totally different to the BBC's! I wont go into it.

Progress hey. It a strange thing!

Ken
Glenn A
07-04-2013
Well if the BBC didn't waste £ 22 million on an X Factor rip off, they would have been able to keep the rights to the National. Unless, of course, they're saving the money to buy back the FA Cup.
IanFergus
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by Glenn A:
“Well if the BBC didn't waste £ 22 million on an X Factor rip off, they would have been able to keep the rights to the National. Unless, of course, they're saving the money to buy back the FA Cup.”

I think you have to remember that C4 was being subsidised to cover the non-premium meetings (which the BBC never was). It was hardly surprising that the BBC shrugged its shoulders and moved on.
A previous poster said that C4 would improve after yesterday. The whole point is that C4 had three months to ensure that the National coverage was excellent and, by all accounts, it failed. Not a good start to the C4 monopoly. Heaven help C4 if it screws up Royal Ascot.
sporter92
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by Glenn A:
“Well if the BBC didn't waste £ 22 million on an X Factor rip off, they would have been able to keep the rights to the National. Unless, of course, they're saving the money to buy back the FA Cup.”

Came from the entertainment budget and BBC have had to cut in other areas with popular dramas like Spooks and Hustle ending

Originally Posted by IanFergus:
“I think you have to remember that C4 was being subsidised to cover the non-premium meetings (which the BBC never was). It was hardly surprising that the BBC shrugged its shoulders and moved on.
A previous poster said that C4 would improve after yesterday. The whole point is that C4 had three months to ensure that the National coverage was excellent and, by all accounts, it failed. Not a good start to the C4 monopoly. Heaven help C4 if it screws up Royal Ascot.”

I agree 100%, The end of grandstand where Horse Racing was a staple of their coverage meant the BBC cut back to just 13 days with Channel 4 being subsidised to show most of their racing meant the BBC were on shaky ground so it was no suprise to see Channel 4 getting everything and they simply doubled the BBC bid while the BBC have a budget to stick to and the National was in the sports budget not because of the voice as Glenn said.

Yesterday coverage on Channel 4 was good but not as good as the BBC and it was a suprise as I watched Cheltenham Gold Cup day on 4 and the coverage was brilliant. The team did well and I couldn't really slag off any of them or the commentators and most were former BBC employees but Channel 4 (or IMG) messed up with the race direction missing the start, missing Auroras Encore taking the lead etc.
Darren Lethem
07-04-2013
I think had this being the "old Channel 4 Racing" we wouldnt be debating it now. The whole concept and presentation pre 2013 was superb.
ForestMorgan
07-04-2013
I'm a tad confused by people's reactions to the Channel 4 coverage - what on earth did you expect? Some HD slow-motion shots or half dazzling leg shots are impossible in a race that's over in 5 - 10 minutes. Long/mid range shots are and will be all you'll ever get and as for the entire coverage I thought it was good.
apaul
07-04-2013
If you think that was good you're very easily pleased. The race coverage wasn't great and the re-run was a shambles.
Glenn A
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by IanFergus:
“I think you have to remember that C4 was being subsidised to cover the non-premium meetings (which the BBC never was). It was hardly surprising that the BBC shrugged its shoulders and moved on.
A previous poster said that C4 would improve after yesterday. The whole point is that C4 had three months to ensure that the National coverage was excellent and, by all accounts, it failed. Not a good start to the C4 monopoly. Heaven help C4 if it screws up Royal Ascot.”

I was never a huge fan of the BBC's coverage of run of the mill meetings, though the National was always superbly done and Peter O Sullevan was a legend. Given the choice between Julian Wilson and the out of vision Jimmy Lindley and Brough Scott and John Oaksey I always favoured the latter, even if the ITV/4 commentators weren't as good as POS.
ForestMorgan
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by apaul:
“If you think that was good you're very easily pleased. The race coverage wasn't great and the re-run was a shambles.”

Ok then - what could have made it better?
F1Ken
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by ForestMorgan:
“Ok then - what could have made it better?”

If you read back you will see list's of thing's people have said was wrong and need's fixing.

It was poor.

Ken
Glenn A
07-04-2013
I thought Channel 4 did a reasonable job.
randy toksvig
07-04-2013
I agree with a lot of the comments so far. Too many long shots lost some of the 'big race' feel. The start was a bit of a mess and the camera stayed out for too long. Panning behind a big screen was a major error and the camerawork at the last fence was poor. Agree that Hoiles was a bit flat but the other 2 did well. It was not a great race to commentate on with so few fallers and no close finish with a an 'unknown' winning. The biggest cock up was the re-run - it seemed to lack preparation. Despite all of this it must be remembered it was their first National and it's a very different race to cover to any other.
Clank007
07-04-2013
For me channel 4's coverage was ruined by the constant fawning of Clare Balding. The Daily Telegraph recently called her a .National Treasure'. I quickly checked my calendar to see if it was April 1st, but unfortunately it wasnt.
fp1967
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by Darren Lethem:
“I think you will find yourself a lone voice on here with that thought. You would rather a commentator has gravitas than identify the right horse or choose the right phrase at the right time ? You have to ask why is Aussie Jim only a bit part player in on course commentary.”

No I would prefer they found a great commentator one who calls a good error free race who has gravitas in his voice and picks the right phrase at the right time! As both Sir Peter & Big Aussie Jim did at their best! Holt is nowhere near those two at there best! Sir Peter was a genius! Big Jim meanwhile brought something different. He began to make mistakes when he got less practice! and dropped some of the aussie phrases seemed to put him off his stride! But at there best Sir Peter and Jimbo were a million miles better than Holt is! I find him bland! I don't like his turn of phrase and he lacks gravitas! He may call an error free race, I don't think he does. But for some reason he is seen as the best thing since sliced bread! I maybe in the minority! but that doesn't make me wrong.
I am probably in the minority that I would prefer to pay more for the TV licence to stop sky and commercial tv being dominant in tv sports coverage!
PatrickMcG
07-04-2013
Viewing figures are in for Channel 4's coverage of the 2013 Grand National:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/a...ight-channel-4

Peak audience of 8.9 million.

The final BBC broadcast from Aintree in 2012 attracted a peak of 10.9m viewers but the figures for the three preceding years were 8.8m in 2011, 7.6m in 2010 and 8.5m in 2009.
alanrollins
07-04-2013
Simon Holt is the best horse racing commentator around by miles and could perhaps be the best commentator on any sport. He is certainly every bit the equal of McGrath at his best. McGrath was a fine commentator indeed but really regressed and I think would admit it himself.

Holt was on top form at the Cheltenham Festival, just listen to his call of the Supreme Novices as they came up the hill, his call of the Melling Chase was also spectacular and fitting to call home such a fantastic horse in Sprinter Sacre.

Hoiles is usually far better than his calling in the National, and a fine reader of a race though he tends to rattle a little for my liking without pausing for breath at times. I would have preferred either he and Bartlett swapping roles or Stuart Machin calling the first few fences after the handover to afford Hoiles the racecourse finish. Bartlett is up there amongst the best callers behind Holt.

Graham Cunningham seems a complete waste of time to me and I have made a couple of quid already this year laying his tips. Nick Luck is struggling to make any particular impression as a chief anchor and I prefer the respective styles of Cattermole and Alastair Down particularly by some distance. Good to see the latter on ATR's forum this morning.
mlt11
07-04-2013
Originally Posted by PatrickMcG:
“Viewing figures are in for Channel 4's coverage of the 2013 Grand National:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/a...ight-channel-4

Peak audience of 8.9 million.

The final BBC broadcast from Aintree in 2012 attracted a peak of 10.9m viewers but the figures for the three preceding years were 8.8m in 2011, 7.6m in 2010 and 8.5m in 2009.”

Unfortunately that article is misleading because it compares BBC 15 minute peaks with the C4 5 minute peak.

Comparable 15 minute peaks are:

2009- 8.5m (61%)
2010- 7.9m (60%)
2011- 8.8m (65%)
2012 - 10.0m (59%)
2013 - 8.29m (57.5%) (8.41m inc C4+1)

The five minute peak this year excluding +1 was 8.74m/60.2%, compared to 10.88m/64.1% last year.

The whole programme, excluding +1, averaged 2.82m/27.2%, compared to 4.07m/33.9% last year.

See Rating thread - post 2555 and later posts which correct +1 error in post 2555.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...11188&page=103
Gerry865
07-04-2013
i agree with your comments about Holt, he is not a good commentator.
Simon Rodgers
08-04-2013
Originally Posted by THOMO:
“
Ian.”

I remember when Channel 4 racing used to shown in "Cinemascope" with black boarders at the top and bottom of the screen.

Why not go all the way and make it all black? Play some of that test card muzak instead of the commentary.
Dancc
08-04-2013
Originally Posted by alanrollins:
“Graham Cunningham seems a complete waste of time to me and I have made a couple of quid already this year laying his tips. Nick Luck is struggling to make any particular impression as a chief anchor and I prefer the respective styles of Cattermole and Alastair Down particularly by some distance.”

To be fair, most of the tips the presenters put up go on to lose. I was shocked in particular when Nick Luck tipped Cue Card to beat Sprinter Sacre on The Morning Line the other morning !

I like Graham myself, but John Francombe is missed. Jim McGrath is probably the best of the lot in terms of the C4 pundits and when he's not on The Morning Line I end up fast-forwarding through most of it.
Dancc
08-04-2013
Originally Posted by F1Ken:
“Oh you forget. We missed one jump, the winner going into the lead, the start, and had to squint to see them at the distant cameras.

And then the re run was just totally different to the BBC's! I wont go into it.

Progress hey. It a strange thing!

Ken”

Whilst C4's coverage was far from faultless, neither was the BBC's in years previous. In fact the BBC's coverage of racing in general felt very lacking towards the end.

I don't think C4 did a bad job at all. And the race itself was a big success with all runners in contention for the longest amount of time ever in a National.

Encouragingly the peak viewing figures compare very favourably with how it used to do on the BBC. The average is only down that much because of the commercial breaks. I'd imagine C4 are thrilled with how well it's gone.
Darren Lethem
08-04-2013
Originally Posted by alanrollins:
“Simon Holt is the best horse racing commentator around by miles and could perhaps be the best commentator on any sport. He is certainly every bit the equal of McGrath at his best. McGrath was a fine commentator indeed but really regressed and I think would admit it himself.

Holt was on top form at the Cheltenham Festival, just listen to his call of the Supreme Novices as they came up the hill, his call of the Melling Chase was also spectacular and fitting to call home such a fantastic horse in Sprinter Sacre.

Hoiles is usually far better than his calling in the National, and a fine reader of a race though he tends to rattle a little for my liking without pausing for breath at times. I would have preferred either he and Bartlett swapping roles or Stuart Machin calling the first few fences after the handover to afford Hoiles the racecourse finish. Bartlett is up there amongst the best callers behind Holt.

Graham Cunningham seems a complete waste of time to me and I have made a couple of quid already this year laying his tips. Nick Luck is struggling to make any particular impression as a chief anchor and I prefer the respective styles of Cattermole and Alastair Down particularly by some distance. Good to see the latter on ATR's forum this morning.”

Totally agree with that Alan. He is the finest sports commentator around at the moment for me too. I cannot comprehend how people say "he isn't good."
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