I don't think Channel 4 racing decline is something that's only just happened though it's probably worsened under the new format. I see on here, names like Peter O'Sullevan and Julian Wilson and wonder what their opinion would be of the frenetic activities of the current bunch.

I'm taken aback by the sheer numbers of presenters and "experts", sure many of them are knowledgable but that in itself does not make good presenters and neither does it provide the right format. In oh so many cases, pursuit of trainers, jockeys and "celebrities" takes precedence over horses and form to the point where we're left with sometimes two or three minutes to scramble through the what we really want to watch and know..

An article in today's Racing Post predicts that Clare Balding won't renew her Channel 4 contract after this year.

Clare is in danger of taking on too much so viewers will suffer from Balding Fatigue and she will find herself out of favour. Better to stick to the few things she knows well rather than spread herself thinly. I appreciate she's a freelance and earning money as and when she can but after a while viewers tire of people who never seem to be off their tellies.

While Channel 4, and ITV before it, are better at covering bread and butter meetings than the BBC, with big meetings like the Grand National, there's no sense of event on Channel 4. The BBC would have a massive build up to the race, Channel 4 seem to treat it like a meeting from Newcastle and have adverts right up to the start.

They have no choice with the adverts, it's what's paying for the coverage.

Oh I understand that, it's just the whole sense of occasion has gone when the National transferred to Channel 4. Also today, when some years ago at least two meetings would be on 4, there's nothing. Surely Noel Edmonds can take a break.

I actually think they are doing a good job with the national.

From 30 years ago today on the beeb.
A bank holiday grandstand, http://tvlistings.thetvroomplus.com/listing-1452.html

Apart from the big meetings, that is How the BBC treated every horse meeting when it was on Grandstand.

Horse Racing, just slotted in around other sports, Cricket fans could say the same,

The Midweek Horse Meetings BBC cared about, those that ended up slotting into Grandstand not

I don't really remember ITV having horse racing.

Did they always treat it like this? http://tvlistings.thetvroomplus.com/listing-3167.html

Not always, I don't think A lot of the time it was dispersed by, International Dustin Rolling, from Some place we've never heard off

From TV Times:

World of Sport Saturday July 25, 1981:

1.20 THE ITV SEVEN

Derek Thompson at Newcastle and Jim McGrath at Beverley introduce the best races from both meetings:

1.30,2.0,2.30,3.0 Newcastle
1.45,2.15,2.45 Beverley

Race commentators: Graham Goode (Newcastle), Raleigh Gilbert (Beverley); betting and results John Tyrrel

From Wiki

The last ITV Seven came from Kempton Park and Thirsk on 7 September 1985, three weeks before the last World of Sport, which only covered one meeting, at Redcar. ITV's midweek racing coverage had already been on Channel 4 since 22 March 1984; from 5 October 1985 the Saturday afternoon coverage also moved to the fourth channel, permanently becoming Channel 4 Racing, although it was reduced in scope considerably at the start of 1986, and would not become as extensive as it was in the ITV era until the late 1990s.

Exactly! It's what helped them trump the BBC to wrest coverage of the Grand National, the Derby, Royal Ascot and the like, after years of pleading poverty to the horse racing authorities about not being able to afford to pay to cover racing.


C4 stopped covering Bank Holiday Monday meetings in the spring/summer months about 11/12 years ago. Also, in the intervening years, various big 3-day meetings in the spring and summer, which traditionally were from Tuesday-Thursday, were shifted from Wednesday-Friday (and in the case of Newmarket's July meeting, Thursday-Saturday as recently as 3 years ago).

Whether we like it or not, Deal or No Deal with Noel Edmonds (or Come Dine With Me for that matter) will always get better viewing figures and is more cost effective for C4 to broadcast.

As a kid I remember my Grandfather going up the bookies every Saturday morning to put his bets on the ITV Seven,

Fine racing commentator he was to, I always thought he should of been number 1 at ITV rather than Goode, such a shame as well he never got to call a Epsom Derby.

While ITV provided two and a half hours of racing on a Saturday and seven races, BBC One would show three races slotted around women's judo or badminton. Also you had Julian Wilson giving a substandard review of each race and Jimmy Lindley out of vision doing a brief paddock commentary. The Beeb had O Sullevan, who was the best of the commentary side, but there wasn't much else to entice you over.

I certainly remember during the Cricket season, they tried to miss hardly any of the a cricket.

During the summer If I remember only time they really done the Racing was when Rain Stopped play

25 July 1981 (the king george)

Grandstand
Introduced by Frank Bough.
1050 Cricket. The Benson and Hedges Cup Final between Somerset and Surrey.
1315 Sports Round-Up.
1320 Shergar.
1330 Show Jumping. The Royal International Horse Show.
1350 Racing from Ascot.
1405 Cricket.
1420 Racing from Ascot.
1440 Cricket.
1500 Racing from Ascot. The King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes.
1535 Cricket and Athletics. The Women’s AAA Championships.
1700 Final Score.

Would I be right in saying that the actual race went of at 3.20 so giving it a 20min build up and end presentation of about 10mins?

I think I wrote the Wikipedia reference quoted in this thread. Epsom does actually still race on August Bank Holiday, not that you'd know it - it was on ITV or Channel 4 every year from 1960 to 2000 except 1979 (all-out ITV strike) and 1984 (Thames strike which wrecked pretty much the entire network schedule). Maybe the decline reflects the decline of Bank Holidays as special events, though - the concept of that meeting as a "Londoner's day out" seems rather quaint now. The Easter and May Day Kempton meetings have lost their status now it is all-weather and the Sandown meeting at the end of May (which descended from the old Hurst Park Whitsun fixture) isn't on the Bank Holiday anymore, with one of its main races moved to Haydock.

(Raleigh Gilbert)


After he took up a lesser role at ITV/Channel 4 he was very near the top of the racecourse commentary tree for a long time - he did a lot of big events at courses he never got to cover for TV, loads of Cheltenham meetings including the Festival, and quite a lot of Ascot including the Royal meeting. Towards the end of his life he was mostly calling minor meetings, and less frequently, but that probably reflects the Jim McGrath Year Zero, which is to UK racecalling what Sky at a comparable moment is to UK football coverage (Robin Gray also had a low-key late career for the same reason).

You would be right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL_w_zSyvqE

I thought Londoners went to Margate on their bank holiday day out?

We can rely on Robin for the facts. I do recall the ITV strike of 1979( bloody cricket all day on BBC1) wiping out the Ebor Meeting and the St Leger. Luckily the strike broke out after the Derby and the Oaks as an all out strike all through the summer could have really soured ITV's relationship with racing.
Also 1979 was the last occasion both BBC One and ITV showed the Derby simultaneously.

If you watched EastEnders you would know they always go to Southend

Is that the Jim McGrath who is on C4 now? I had no idea he had been around so long, he doesn't look old enough.